This place is suddenly flooded ....

[GenSeneca]

I'm sure these (same) Marines are soooooooooo thankful for the Bush Admin's pro-torture agenda.

Do you ever have anything of value to add to discussions?

 

[PLC1]

YOU asserted that WE were using terroristic methods in the GWOT, that's WTF I'm talking about. Now, if you're too dim witted to use the proper verbiage to convey your true meaning, perhaps it's time you bought a good dictionary and thesaurus and learned to USE them!

I see you have stooped to the level of personal insult, thus proving you no longer have a valid argument.

First off you incredibly ignorant ass, we haven't "tortured" anyone, and any assertion to the contrary simply amplifies the utter ignorance of the one making the assertion. The terrorists use POWER TOOLS, knives, saws, electricity and REAL torture as part of their torture techniques. The most we've done is waterboarded exactly 3 known terrorists to extract extremely time sensitive information that SAVED AMERICAN LIVES! Oh, and NO, waterboarding is NOT torture, because if it were, we wouldn't be allowed to use it on our own troops as part of their SERE training.

More personal insult, followed by unsubstantiated claims.

Actually, the expert on torture, John McCain has said that waterboarding is torture. Not only that, but our forces have used other methods of torture as well. That is a fact that has been well documented and already discussed on this very forum.

Checkmate. You stoop to personal insult, you have no argument, you lose the debate. Sorry. Better luck next time.

Again, waterboarding is NOT torture. If you are asserting that any US personnel have used any REAL torture techniques, I'd like to see your evidence, because everything I've seen to date that you libs are claiming is torture done by US troops has been done in done in damned near every frat house in America as part of their initiations.

Repeating the same false statement doesn't lend it any more credibility.

Yes we are, white hats and riding in at the last minute to save the fair damsel in distress. GROW UP! If that means we have to get a few BAD guys wet in order to SAVE THE LIVES OF OUR TROOPS, then SO BE IT! No permanent physical or psychological damage was done to any of them, evinced by the fact that they're all ALIVE AND WELL, and either have been, or soon will be TRIED for their crimes. Maybe it's the fact that you've obviously never served in the military, but from someone who has, and who traveled all over the world, I've seen what REAL torture looks like on some of the survivors in Honduras, and believe you me, we haven't come close to doing ANY of that to ANYONE, so when you start saying that we've "tortured" people, you are flat out LYING.

They aren't all "alive and well." Your facts are wrong, your language is insulting, and your argument is lost.

 

[Libsmasher]

I'm sure these (same) Marines are soooooooooo thankful for the Bush Admin's pro-torture agenda.

No - they just know what the REAL war is like, instead of the hallucinatory one fabricated in the fevered brains of wingnut appeasers.

 

[top gun]

YOU asserted that WE were using terroristic methods in the GWOT, that's WTF I'm talking about. Now, if you're too dim witted to use the proper verbiage to convey your true meaning, perhaps it's time you bought a good dictionary and thesaurus and learned to USE them!



First off you incredibly ignorant ass, we haven't "tortured" anyone, and any assertion to the contrary simply amplifies the utter ignorance of the one making the assertion. The terrorists use POWER TOOLS, knives, saws, electricity and REAL torture as part of their torture techniques. The most we've done is waterboarded exactly 3 known terrorists to extract extremely time sensitive information that SAVED AMERICAN LIVES! Oh, and NO, waterboarding is NOT torture, because if it were, we wouldn't be allowed to use it on our own troops as part of their SERE training.



Again, waterboarding is NOT torture. If you are asserting that any US personnel have used any REAL torture techniques, I'd like to see your evidence, because everything I've seen to date that you libs are claiming is torture done by US troops has been done in done in damned near every frat house in America as part of their initiations.



Yes we are, white hats and riding in at the last minute to save the fair damsel in distress. GROW UP! If that means we have to get a few BAD guys wet in order to SAVE THE LIVES OF OUR TROOPS, then SO BE IT! No permanent physical or psychological damage was done to any of them, evinced by the fact that they're all ALIVE AND WELL, and either have been, or soon will be TRIED for their crimes. Maybe it's the fact that you've obviously never served in the military, but from someone who has, and who traveled all over the world, I've seen what REAL torture looks like on some of the survivors in Honduras, and believe you me, we haven't come close to doing ANY of that to ANYONE, so when you start saying that we've "tortured" people, you are flat out LYING.

Man you are one "mentally" sick dude.

It's not about what the terrorist do. It's that America doesn't stoop to torture. Waterboarding is torture under both our domestic laws, the military field manual & International LAW. And we've done more than that like putting attack dogs onto naked prisoners and standing prisoners on boxes blindfolded holding wires telling them if they moved or fell off they'd explode. What kind of an a-hole are you to think that this is proper military conduct.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcO3gRhCihc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIHHZ59aWoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgZDsG0lYOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkxzt894Flg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lbWV4GKeDg

And let me tell you something psycho. My whole family has served honorably... the key word here that you obviously abandoned long ago is honorably. My Uncle was an Infantry Captain attached to Patton's Armor Division, my father was a Master Sergeant in Korea and my wife also a Captain in US Army Military Intelligence and had it not been for the draft ending my junior year in High School in 73 I'm sure I'd have been there too right along with many a friend I still have today that came out of Nam. And my best friend's son is as we speak on his 4th tour (1 in Kuwait & 3 now in Iraq).

So spare me the know it all crap. You're a cheap, no rules bully nothing more nothing less. And there's plenty of people that have served that would tell you the same thing I'm telling you right to your face.

 

[top gun]

Since when? When did you start thinking our troops were the good guys? Exactly when did you STOP rooting for our enemies? You called our troops names, accused them of murdering women and children, accused them of fighting civilians and not the enemy, supported defunding them in a time of war, all while making excuses for our enemies and wishing they would "rise up" to kick our asses out of their country.

You're delusional... and an a$$ to say that.

I love our kids over the there. One of them is a lifer and my God Son out of Fort Campbell. We have the best young men & women in the world serving in our military forces. And they do what they are told and they do one Hell of a great job!

It's not the troops that were the problem. It was this lying Republican administration. Sometimes there is collateral damage in war and that can't always be avoided. But lying us into war in the first place is never acceptable nor is torture once we've taken prisoners into custody.

And it's un-American to think that it is.

 

[GenSeneca]

And we've done more than that like putting attack dogs onto naked prisoners and standing prisoners on boxes blindfolded holding wires telling them if they moved or fell off they'd explode.

Do you honestly think none of this would have happened under Gore, Kerry or even the Messiah?

 

[Pandora]

wow Gen you are UNAMERICAN

but I am sure since it was said to you by a lib it is all fine and good
Patriotic even....


I think being called un-American by a leftie would be a compliment really

 

[GenSeneca]

It's not the troops that were the problem.

So it wasn't our troops who were torturing people, murdering civilians in cold blood, air raiding villages and killing civilians, it was actually the Bush Administration?

I guess with enough Kool Aid I could buy that...

Cheney was in charge of torturing people:

Condi Rice was in charge of the Death Squads:

and Bush himself must have flown the plane on all the air raids of civilian targets:

Now I ask again:

Do you honestly think no enemy combatants would have been tortured or mistreated under Gore, Kerry or even the Messiah?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

No - they just know what the REAL war is like....

Yeah....THEY do. Whattayaknowaboutit?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

it's not the troops that were the problem. It was this lying republican administration. Sometimes there is collateral damage in war and that can't always be avoided. But lying us into war in the first place is never acceptable nor is torture once we've taken prisoners into custody.

and it's un-american to think that it is.

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So it wasn't our troops who were torturing people, murdering civilians in cold blood, air raiding villages and killing civilians, it was actually the Bush Administration?

Ya' heard-about-that, did ya'?

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

I see you have stooped to the level of personal insult, thus proving you no longer have a valid argument.

I have ALL of the valid arguments, all you libs have is slander, lies, and defamation of character against the very people who provide you with the freedoms you enjoy.

More personal insult, followed by unsubstantiated claims.

Actually, the expert on torture, John McCain has said that waterboarding is torture. Not only that, but our forces have used other methods of torture as well. That is a fact that has been well documented and already discussed on this very forum.

Checkmate. You stoop to personal insult, you have no argument, you lose the debate. Sorry. Better luck next time.

McCain suddenly took the position that it was "torture" in order to attempt to garner some votes from you wimps. If waterboarding really were "torture" it would be ILLEGAL for us to do it to our troops as part of their training. I have been waterboarded when i went through AF survival school, have YOU?

Oh, and BTW, you're the one who has lost, because you don't have a single fact to rely on, or you would have presented them already.

They aren't all "alive and well." Your facts are wrong, your language is insulting, and your argument is lost.

They're not? Then where are they? The last time I checked, they were all at Club Gitmo, do you have evidence to the contrary?

If you find my language to be insulting, that's not my problem, it's YOURS.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

It's not about what the terrorist do. It's that America doesn't stoop to torture.

It's PRECISELY about that the terrorists do, because YOU laid the assertion that WE were using THEIR techniques. You made the assertion, YOU back it up, or YOU apologize for being a liar.

My whole family has served honorably...

So what's your excuse for NOT? Perhaps it's because you're a gutless blunder? How does it feel to know that your wife has more intestinal fortitude than you do? I guess we know who wears the pants in your family.

 

[top gun]

Do you honestly think none of this would have happened under Gore, Kerry or even the Messiah?

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind. First we would have had a more honest rational truthful evaluation of the real situation so we wouldn't even be in theater... certainly not as occupiers.

Could there have been some misconduct by some individuals like at Abu Ghraib if we were... sure. But heads would have rolled over things like organized torture. Unlike deny... then cover up... and then try to debate that sometimes torture isn't torture.

 

[top gun]

Mr. Carpenter;66849]It's PRECISELY about that the terrorists do, because YOU laid the assertion that WE were using THEIR techniques. You made the assertion, YOU back it up, or YOU apologize for being a liar.

That's just ridiculous on it's face (surprise)!

Are you seriously making the case that we weren't waterboarding etc.? Because if you are I'd suggest you get in the game. You're one of those loose cannons that jeopardize the lives of good soldiers because you are unstable and probably the first to commit some atrocity.

That puts my God Son at greater risk so I'm not a big fan of stupidity. You're one of those Bush's with "Bring it on"... "Mission Accomplished" crap lines. Makes you sound tough but you hurt our troops by being so dim witted.

So what's your excuse for NOT? Perhaps it's because you're a gutless blunder? How does it feel to know that your wife has more intestinal fortitude than you do? I guess we know who wears the pants in your family.

Well first it would make no difference that I served or didn't serve as far as calling torture wrong or being able to understand war. As I recall Abraham Lincoln and many other leaders didn't serve in the military and were in somewhat high positions in somewhat important conflicts.

And having people that did served in country in 2 different conflicts and my wife who's not only a Vet but sort of a war historian especially regarding the Soviets and a God Son in Iraq that I talk to every time I get any chance I'm sure I have a very accurate picture as to right & wrong.

To answer your question directly Big Rob could tell you because we've done some PM's on that time period and he's a former athlete as well. I was playing basketball in college and was almost killed by a drunk driver that ran a red light and T boned my 65 Mustang at about 45mph and almost killed me. I was rehabbing for over a year which ended my college basketball career.

So I couldn't join for medical reasons but to be perfectly honest if you go back to that time right when the draft ended the whole country was ready to get away from war for a while.

As far as the personal insults you couldn't carry my jock on your best day. I've coached High School level teams for years now in both football & basketball and I would easily Drill Sergeant a big talker like you into doing suicides until your panties feel down. Go smoke a cigarette.