How do you define drone strikes in Yemen? Or a Seal raid in Pakistan? Surely not as a "police issue."
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US ambassador 'killed in Libya'. US consulate Benghazi stormed. 4 US officials "dead"
- Thread starter Peter Dow
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How do you define drone strikes in Yemen? Or a Seal raid in Pakistan? Surely not as a "police issue."
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I disagree that they are not showing a sense of some cooperation. After all, Egypt reportedly told us in advance about the protests.
Cruella
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2012
- Messages
- 4,311
Something interesting has come out of some of this. The Islamists speak out of both sides of their mouths. Even the twitter feed our Egyptian embasy received got one message in English from the Muslim Brotherhood, but they also could read their Egyptian twitters to their supporters, and they were saying the exact opposite. You do know that it's quite acceptable in their religion to tell lies to their enemies, called al-taqiyya.
Islam Permits Lying to Deceive Unbelievers and Bring World Domination!
Mohammed gave permission for a follower to lie in order to kill a Jewish poet who had offended Mohammed.
Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
I am not denying that the ships were sent ...
I am saying they will not be ordered to fire on Egypt. There is a greater chance Obama will have them fire on Israel than Egypt.
RoccoR
Well-Known Member
dogtowner, et al,
Al-Qaeda is almost a generic name. There is no real al-Qaeda alla the 911 attacks.
There is little question that the orchestrated attack in Libya was planned-out well. But that doesn't mean that it was al-Qaeda.
Libyan President Mohammed el-Megarif is very quick to say it way al-Qaeda. That is the great political buzz-word that triggers emotion in the US. But you will note that he is phasing his words carefully.
It is easy to steer misleading conclusions within the first few hours.
We need to be careful that we don't make our assessment too early.
Most Respectfully,
R
Al-Qaeda is almost a generic name. There is no real al-Qaeda alla the 911 attacks.
There is little question that the orchestrated attack in Libya was planned-out well. But that doesn't mean that it was al-Qaeda.
(COMMENT)
Libyan President Mohammed el-Megarif is very quick to say it way al-Qaeda. That is the great political buzz-word that triggers emotion in the US. But you will note that he is phasing his words carefully.
- foreigners have been infiltrating his country over the past few months
- the attackers, who he believes are connected to Al Qaeda, used the protests at the consulate as a cover to attack
- he believes Al Qaeda is responsible for the deadly attack
- those who joined in the attack were foreigners, who had entered Libya "from different directions, some of them definitely from Mali and Algeria."
It is easy to steer misleading conclusions within the first few hours.
We need to be careful that we don't make our assessment too early.
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Well-Known Member
BigRob, et al,
I don't think that the US is held in high esteem at all in these countries.
References:
The Arab Spring has not changed or improved the attitude of the Middle Easterner and Mediterranean Muslim exhibited towards the US. In fact, if anything, it may have become even more unfavorable. Most of the countries, like Egypt, have a newly evolving government that is much less favorable to the US.
US Aid is all about bribery; monetarily acquiring political support through the application of graft and corruption. Most of the justification for continuing foreign aid is the old school schizophrenia and the false dichotomies that rule even today: isolationism 'vs' internationalism and idealism 'vs' realism. But I would like to draw your attention to this Washington Post Article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...tle-goodwill/2012/04/17/gIQA7L8yOT_story.html And we have spent so very much in Pakistan.
Backing away from the use of foreign aid to purchase allies, and implementing a policy of rebuilding America First, is not the same as isolationism. There is no other country in the World that uses the magnitude of bribery used by the US. They actually use diplomacy. We need to ween these false allies off the taxpayer roles and reinvest in America. We need to back away from the role as "World Police." And give that role back to the regional powers were it belongs. In doing so, when the US does use its economic influence to alter a paradigm --- it will be more appreciated and less taken for granted.
Most Respectfully,
R
I don't think that the US is held in high esteem at all in these countries.
(COMMENT)
References:
- http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/05/17/arab-spring-fails-to-improve-us-image/
- http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2020/po...ign-poilcy-middle-east-israel-palestine-obama
- http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2010/12/09-israel-public-opinion-telhami
- http://www.voanews.com/content/arabs-have-negative-view-of-united-states--100279354/172232.html
- http://www.voanews.com/content/arab...icies-opinion-poll-says-100121494/172234.html
The Arab Spring has not changed or improved the attitude of the Middle Easterner and Mediterranean Muslim exhibited towards the US. In fact, if anything, it may have become even more unfavorable. Most of the countries, like Egypt, have a newly evolving government that is much less favorable to the US.
US Aid is all about bribery; monetarily acquiring political support through the application of graft and corruption. Most of the justification for continuing foreign aid is the old school schizophrenia and the false dichotomies that rule even today: isolationism 'vs' internationalism and idealism 'vs' realism. But I would like to draw your attention to this Washington Post Article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...tle-goodwill/2012/04/17/gIQA7L8yOT_story.html And we have spent so very much in Pakistan.
Backing away from the use of foreign aid to purchase allies, and implementing a policy of rebuilding America First, is not the same as isolationism. There is no other country in the World that uses the magnitude of bribery used by the US. They actually use diplomacy. We need to ween these false allies off the taxpayer roles and reinvest in America. We need to back away from the role as "World Police." And give that role back to the regional powers were it belongs. In doing so, when the US does use its economic influence to alter a paradigm --- it will be more appreciated and less taken for granted.
Most Respectfully,
R
RoccoR
Well-Known Member
BigRob, et al,
When I was in Yemen, we didn't characterize it at all. It was just something that needed doing. In Yemen, there is a higher concentration of militant AQAP. But there were also a few connections there that stretch back to the US.
(COMMENT)
Officially it is under the AUMF (Authorization to use Military Force). If you make a connection between the target and terrorism, then - generally that legitimizes the action. Remember, the US goes where it want and does what it wants. It doesn't require International Approval, consensus or law. It only needs Congressional approval (as Senator Sessions made so perfectly clear to the SECDEF last month in hirings). And this is painfully clear to the nations we do business with, especially in the Middle East, Persian Gulf, and countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I would also like to bring to your attention this paper: (http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat11/strategic11.pdf) American Aid to the Middle East: A Tragedy of Good Intentions.
Most Respectfully,
R
When I was in Yemen, we didn't characterize it at all. It was just something that needed doing. In Yemen, there is a higher concentration of militant AQAP. But there were also a few connections there that stretch back to the US.
(COMMENT)
Officially it is under the AUMF (Authorization to use Military Force). If you make a connection between the target and terrorism, then - generally that legitimizes the action. Remember, the US goes where it want and does what it wants. It doesn't require International Approval, consensus or law. It only needs Congressional approval (as Senator Sessions made so perfectly clear to the SECDEF last month in hirings). And this is painfully clear to the nations we do business with, especially in the Middle East, Persian Gulf, and countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.
I would also like to bring to your attention this paper: (http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat11/strategic11.pdf) American Aid to the Middle East: A Tragedy of Good Intentions.
Most Respectfully,
R
I think this is more a result of a fragile government dealing with splintered factions domestically and a limited grip on their own power. I do not place a ton of stock in tweets such as this -- I think the current government of Egypt is less friendly than the previous dictator, but we can still find mutual interests to pursue.
Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
I am glad you see it that way Big Rob .... I think ... but the majority of Americans see these animals for who they are. There is no negotiating with this enemy!
Whether the new government of Egypt is less friendly to the USA only time will tell. I suspect they will be less friendly to Israel. However as you said earlier "We do need to adjust our foreign policy, but not by backing away on aid. Pulling back aid will not have the end result you envision in my view, and I would argue that the majority of these countries are still relatively pro-US, and these are acts by fringe elements."On this basis the USA might still have friends in the arab world. But they will not keep these by propping up Israel
Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
Or any other infidels ... wake up Aus ... appeasement is not the solution. History has proven this many times over.
steveox
Well-Known Member
Why dont we get Even against the Arabs? Like why not Burn Korans? Just like that Rev in Florida did
Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
Really steve ...
Are we suppose to have an intellectual response to your comment ...
Are we suppose to have an intellectual response to your comment ...
steveox
Well-Known Member
Well they think its ok to Kill innocent Americans who have nothing do to with a dumb movie. So i think its only fair that some group here in US will get 1000 Koran books and burn them like a Bon fire and put it on you tube and send a message to them. If you kill Another innocent American were just gonna burn more Korans in front of you.
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Texas_tea
Well-Known Member
Great idea ....
I think that will fix it!
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