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US warships head for South China Sea after standoff

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by The Scotsman, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    manufactured incidents to take their mind off the fact that their economy and "national" pride is going down the toilet.............:rolleyes:
     
  2. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    In the legal world, China is 100% in the wrong on this one.

    The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is still pretty much a joke, but they are making strides. I am glad to see Obama send some ships, but we should ensure to defuse this should it appear to turn into a large issue.
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    You describe it so well


    what I want to know is this

    what the heck happened to the world will love us if we just pickt his idiot to rule

    Arg!
     
  4. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    That is an interesting statement, comming from a citizen of a country that has been subject to British domination for over 300 years. It would seem that you are likely an expert in the loss of "National pride."
     
  5. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    If anyone thought that was actually going to happen, they were kidding themselves.
     
  6. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Well.... I did not think it would happen but I was hoping for it I supose.


    It would be nice to turn on the news and not find out some french or german guys did not like us.


    Hey! and isnt Hillary and Bill in big with the Chinese? Why are we having problems with them all the sudden.
     
  7. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    What most people do not know is that the Chinese were trying to take the US Navy surveillance ship Impeccable as partial payment for all the money we own them.
     
  8. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Sadly for us hope does not drive international relations. ;)

    France has been making some pretty major pro-American moves lately. While the US and Europe are going to always have their problems, Europe will, for the most part, be a reliable ally.

    It is the nature of the system. A rising power will always challenge the established powers. You can most likely count on continued tension with China for years to come.
     
  9. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Active Member

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    Don't take any of this too seriously. Its been a long time since the world has had any real naval battles. As a former Naval Officer, I can tell you the days get long and boring when the only panorama in the distance is ocean as far as you can see. This sounds like minor tiff over international waters - something that has been a source of contention among nations for years. On the other hand, the Chinese may be curious to see if the military chain of command has been connected into the new Obama White House and how fast decisions can be made. They may be testing what Obama will do - you know see what this new president is made of.

    Don't worry, WWIII is not on the horizon.
     
  10. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Just great, If they find out he is a spineless mold of jello we might really be in trouble
     
  11. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    I wish that our Government could learn from history. All too soon the vulnerability of un-escorted and unarmed spy ships is evident again. Can our Navy say: "Pueblo"?
    S.O.P sould be to have escorts in place.
     
  12. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    There is a reason "spy ships" travel in the manner that they do. The question you should ask yourself is why.
     
  13. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Why do they?
     
  14. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Well there really is no need. It would be a waste of a ship to escort every "spy ship", especially during peacetime.

    Further, if you are operating in an area with air cover, and with the 7th fleet already over there, it does not seem necessary.

    This particular ship is manned by civilians, and if you are going to make the claim that you are simply doing a geological survey, why would you need a military escort?

    There is a legal dimension too (depending on your view of international law), but a lot of this is up for debate. Technically it is only illegal to spy in territorial waters, but China will claim the EEZ falls under this as well (which is does not legally speaking). But given this, military vs. civilian does create a distinction.
     
  15. dahermit

    dahermit New Member

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    There was no war with North Korea when the spy ship "Pueblo" was seized, the men were mistreated, beaten and detained for months.

    The Pueblo was supposed to be covered by fighters based on a carrier in the area. However, the fleet was too far away to intervene when the Korean patrol boats fired on and boarded her.

    The Pueblo was listed as a scientific research ship. Such ships fool nobody. China knows exactly what that ship was doing. The Koreans knew what the Pueblo was doing.

    Spy ship is a spy ship, there is no distinction. Nevertheless, it was a U.S. ship that should have had timely cover. It did not. The Pueblo should have had timely cover. It did not.

    The congressional hearings placed the blame for the capture of the Pueblo on the fleet officers who assured the higher-ups that the fighter jets could get to the Pueblo in plenty of time if there was any trouble. Those officers continued to be promoted during their careers in the Navy.

    Commander Bucher and the other officers were hailed as heroes upon their release from Korea by the president, congress and the Navy. Commander Bucher and all the other officers that remained in the Navy were never promoted again. Many gave up and retired at their present rank within a few years of the incident.

    All intelligence ships (spy ships) should be covered by sufficient resources to prevent such disasters as the Pueblo. This current incident is not the first...it could have ended much worse.

    Do a search on the U.S.S Liberty.

    I am old enough to actually remember the Pueblo and Liberty incidents. Evidently the current Navy Officer Corps is not old enough to remember. And the most glaring fact in both incidents was how our Navy/Government abandoned the victims of the incidents.
     
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