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Who exactly do we as America owe money to?

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by LooseChange, Sep 18, 2009.

  1. LooseChange

    LooseChange New Member

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    I'm just curious as to who or whom we owe so much money too as that it is so important to pay the national debt like right now? I mean I hate our government to spend money we don't have like everyone else but A lot of you act like we have to pay back our debt immediately or else? Am I missing something here or does like China, Russia, Europe or Israel have a gun pointed at our heads demanding their money right now. Just curious that's all and I was wondering how much is owed to us from foreign countries and/or businesses? If we're so concerned about paying off our debt then where is this same concern for collecting on debt owed to us? I say we start collecting now if people expect to collect from us. It's only fair.:cool:
     
  2. Aus22

    Aus22 Well-Known Member

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    While China has bought many American bonds it does not want it to pay them yet. It is an investment in the hope that the American economy will recover. The Chinese will then share in the profits.
    No country get go broke as long as it has assets. IN bad times it borrows to stimulate the economy and save jobs.In good times it saves by either reducing spending or raising income through taxes and charges.In any case no one will demand it pay money borrow back because the country is too big to fail,
     
  3. LooseChange

    LooseChange New Member

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    Ahh ok that explains it but what I don't understand is that if China has bought so many of our Bonds then does it know something about our Economy that we here in the states don't know about and what if our Economy doesn't fully recover? What then? It just amazes me that all I hear is Socialism this and Socialism that and that we're slowly turning into a Socialist country but a COMMUNIST country owns a pretty good portion of our Economy and yet you hear nothing about it from those who rant and rave against socialism/communism.:confused:
     
  4. TheFranklinParty

    TheFranklinParty New Member

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    All in all, it's pretty scary how much we owe in the form of U.S Treasuries to China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and UAE. Think of a 30 Year Treasury like a 30 year interest only mortgage on a house, the house being our country.

    I think the more dangerous part is that they can hold this over our head. They can flood the market and totally screw up our economic system at any time. The only keeping them from doing it is their dependence on our consumer base and it's great leverage for Global issues.
     
  5. LooseChange

    LooseChange New Member

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    Well I'm satisfied with the answers I've gotten so far in regards to this thread. I mean I thinks its wrong for any nation to hold anything over any ones head like that but I guess. Now I can see as to why it's such a great concern to get our Economy under control and to cut back on the spending. But by cutting back on our spending would it be enough to keep these countries at bay?
     
  6. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    Hate to tell you this, but China recently became a net-seller of US Treasuries along the magnitude of 100-150 billion per month. The UK and Japan have recently been the biggest buyers, with China being a distant third. That's "buyers"... not "holders", by the way. Just a few days ago, Japan voted the LDP out and the DPJ in. The DPJ's stated policies haven't been too friendly to the idea of buying a lot more US Treasuries.

    LooseChange, you get into real serious problems with sovereign debt if you come to the point where you can't make the interest payments on your debt. THAT is fast becoming our current problem--we appear to be both borrowing more to do that (kiting a check) AND printing more to debase our currency... which is why China has become a net-seller.
     
  7. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I believe the largest holder of US debt is the American people themselves - mostly the rich.

    But regardless of who owns that debt it reduces the future standard of living we may experience. Debt is bad in many ways and this is a dangerous trend that must be stopped unless you want to turn the US into a socialism. Then it is a dangerous trend that is liked by socialists and communists alike.
     
  8. Stalin

    Stalin Active Member

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    The US federal debt, and all other public debt, is subject to the same rules as people and private organisations, except the latter two cannot print virtual money in the form of treasury bonds; though banks can create virtual money by using financial instruments such as futures and derivatives.

    If you or I create virtual money, i.e. counterfeiting, we get marched off to the lockup.

    Just look at, and think about, this page for a while and you will start to get an appreciation of the problem. For example, counting out loud while a million dollars of debt racks up .

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    BY my reckong it takes 30 seconds for an extra $1,000,000 to be added to the principle.

    Here is a list of sites that discuss the issue.

    http://mwhodges.home.att.net/

    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

    Comrade Stalin - Commissar of Public Finances
     
  9. LooseChange

    LooseChange New Member

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    All I can say is OUCH!!!! that debt clock just ruined my day. OMG no way the numbers just keep going and going. Ty for the post and well hell if I had the 38k to spear for my share I would write check right now but who would I make it too???
     
  10. Samcos

    Samcos New Member

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    I think I have a practical solution to our problem. Stiff all the countries holding the debt.
    We won't be the most popular country around, but that's not too far from where we are now.
     
  11. Pidgey

    Pidgey Well-Known Member

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    What... uhh... are you going to do when you can't buy any oil after you do that?
     
  12. Aus22

    Aus22 Well-Known Member

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    I can not understand why American are so scared of Socialism. Most countries have socialist governments and are just as prosperous and free as the USA. I mean a socialist government not Communism. In a country like Australia we have a labor party in power. It does not want to destroy Capitalism. We did not suffer a technical depression, two periods of negative growth. We have some unemployment but are recoverying quickly. Partly is because we had great reserves and our major trading partner China did not suffer a severe recession.

    The policies of stimulus spending was used in all countries. It is part of policies recomended by John Keynes a British economists to prevent another Great Depression. It is not socialist but standard economic policy for Governments to spend in times of rising unemployment. In times of lower uemployment the money can be paid back by higher taxes or cuts in government spending.

    This is what China and other borrowers expect the USA to do. Then they can sell their bods at a profit. This is more useful than harming the USA economy. If they can't paid back the debt the lenders will also lose
     
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