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Who Is A Christian

Discussion in 'Culture & Religion' started by Old_Trapper70, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be some confusion among a few just as to what a Christian is. They seem to think that one should give Trump a chance to "prove" he is a "christian". Actually, scripture does not ask for proof save through ones actions. This belief of waiting for one to "prove" his Christian faith is a new one, and not in compliance with Holy Scripture. I have to ponder what the excuse was that allowed Tiller "the baby killer" to attend church services, and to even be appointed as an usher.

    Having said that, scripture is quite clear on who shall NOT enter the Kingdom of God, and thus are not saved. We read in Galatians 5: 16-21

    "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

    But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry,..... hatred, variance,..... wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings,..... revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

    And in 1Corinthians 6: 9-11 we read:

    "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers,....., nor thieves, nor covetous, ....., nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

    I think that pretty well describes Trump, and perhaps many of his followers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2017
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    The US President is a bit weird but most people already know that without needing to refer to some alternative source of literature - just read the newspapers you can get whatever you need from them!
     
  3. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, and part of his weirdness is trying to claim religious convictions he doesn't hold in order to court the fundamentalist vote.
     
  4. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much the job. Be a chameleon with the skin of a rhino. If the fundies don't like it they won't listen.
     
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  5. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    And I think that pretty well fits all of us before salvation, Your post was spoken like a true legalist..Legalism is an attempt to impress our fellow man by doing or saying certain things to impress others. Without regards to the conditions of our hearts before God. At the root of legalism is the sin of pride, because the legalist thinks that he is able to commend himself to God by his own good deeds. Invariably, he is only looking at externals, not at his heart. Also, the legalist’s pride motivates him to exalt himself in the sight of others by his outward behavior, again neglecting to see the corruption of his own heart. Thus legalism denies human depravity and exalts human ability. As such, it is opposed to the gospel of God’s grace. That’s why both Jesus and Paul clashed with the legalists. Jesus hates legalism because it does not deal with the condition of our hearts before God.
    They see themselves as good people because they kept the Law. But in reality, they didn’t keep the Law because they didn’t apply it on the heart level. Thus, Jesus in effect said that if they would be as careful about clean hearts as they were about clean hands, then they would be what they ought to be.

    We’ve gotten the wrongheaded idea that whatever we do in the name of God must be okay because we’re doing it in the name of God. So, every time we do or say something that gets a non-believer angry, we smile to ourselves and think, “Thank you, Jesus. You said they’d hate us just like they hated you.” We’ve got that sentiment all kinds of wrong. If you look at the ministry of Jesus, the lost were far less likely to get angry at him than were the religious types. Moreover, the lost were actually drawn to Jesus. the lost simply hate us now..

    Does that seem right to you?
    The Truth is, Jesus said that all the rules in the Bible can be expressed like this: Love God, love each other. (rf. Mt 22:36-40) So, if our beliefs lead us to anything other than love, they’re wrong. I know some of you are inking up your heretic stamp even now, but at least hear me out. (That ink is really hard to get out.) I’ll give you a few verses that back thissinful scribbling up...

    Look at Colossians 4:5-6, which says for us to, “walk in wisdom toward outsiders (non-Christians), making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.” (ESV) Here, God is telling us to be calm, rational people who speak to others with grace and love, not signs and screams. So, is our speech gracious? Are our words seasoned, as it were, with salt? On the whole, the answer seems to be a big ugly no:

    Then, when talking about the qualifications for an overseer in 1 Timothy 3:7, Paul says, “people who are not Christians must speak well of him, or he might become the victim of disgraceful insults that the devil sets as traps for him.” (GWT) This is a pretty clear verse, and speaks directly to what we’re talking about. One of the qualifications for overseer is that the lost people in the community like them. Does that sound crazy to you? If you listen to the hateful things some people on this thread, who claim to speak for us are saying, you’d think that was an impossible requirement. Because you’d think those people are our enemies.

    None of these verses line up with the way those outside the Church view Christians today.
     
  6. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    Just curious.. In what way? And one other question, if I may.. Do you see any change in the man sense before the primaries? Again just curious not being sarcastic..
     
  7. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    And you know this how? You really don't think he has any religious convictions? NONE?
     
  8. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Based on his statements and the way he has conducted himself, I'm not sure he has any convictions of any sort. He just leans whichever way the wind is blowing currently.

    The religious right wants a Christian president? Well, then, I'll give a speech supporting religion. They want a conservative? Well, then, I'll switch from being a Democrat to being a conservative Republican. I can be whatever the public wants. I'm malleable, and as changeable as a chameleon.
     
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  9. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree! That is why I could NEVER trust him! He is a fake, through and through.
     
  10. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes. Romney was right about him the first time, but I lost a lot of respect for Romney when he wanted changed his tune after the election.
     
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  11. Openmind

    Openmind Well-Known Member

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    May I just begin by copying part of your previous post?

    "Look at Colossians 4:5-6, which says for us to, “walk in wisdom toward outsiders (non-Christians), making the best use of the time. Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.” (ESV) Here, God is telling us to be calm, rational people who speak to others with grace and love, not signs and screams. So, is our speech gracious? Are our words seasoned, as it were, with salt? On the whole, the answer seems to be a big ugly no:"

    Now. . .WHERE do you see this in Trump? When did you EVER hear "his speech be gracious, seasoned with salt" When did you ever see him "walk in wisdom toward outsiders" . . .of any religions, any races, any community that is not his own? When did you EVER see Trump as "Calm, rational . . .speaking to others with grace and love, not signs and screams"?

    You ask how we know that Trump doesn't give a damn about Christianity. . .only concerning himself with "pleasing" those he NEEDS to USE for his own gain?

    I believe you just answered your own question by citing Colossians 4:5-6!

    And this is just ONE of the reason a TRUE Christians should have no faith and no respect for this fake.
     
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  12. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    I don't think we need a Christian as our President.Jimmy Carter was a very Good Christian man, not such a good President. Christians like myself who voted for Trump on the basis of religious freedom, the sanctity of life,and supreme court judges, knew they were doing so at great risk. Countless evangelical leaders denounced Trump’s immoral behavior towards women, his racism and assaults on the vulnerable, as I did, yet so many of us chose to risk voting for him over Hillary Clinton. it was one of the hardest things I think I've done in my adult life..I DON'T WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT HIM..
    While we may not acknowledge it, evangelicals’ role in influencing this election for a candidate whose character seemed to contradicts much of what Jesus stands for, creates a barrier to our witness of the Gospel, which we must now overcome. As you have witnessed on this thread..
    The sanctity of life matters.(to me more then you know) Religious freedom matters. Those causes made huge advances in this election.(with Hillary it would have been more of the same) But racial justice matters too. So does care for the poor and vulnerable. And the treatment of women. The spread of the Gospel may depend upon how well we advocate for those causes too.
    For the past two decades, and maybe even longer, too many Christians contributed to partisan obstructionism that derailed effective governing; keeping Congress from making progress on family strengthening, improvements in race relations, immigration reform, reducing poverty, or fueling economic growth. And I'm still contributing to it.. But i'm trying..
     
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  13. grumpy

    grumpy Active Member

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    He's not very conservative, but it worked for him in the election, if that's what he did..Then you must have had the same thoughts about or last President..
     
  14. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    No, I think Obama was a liberal Democrat from the start, and very much pro choice.

    Trump, on the other hand, was pro choice before he became pro life.
     
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  15. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Proving once again you do not read what I post, yet seem to feel you are intelligent enough to respond:

    I posted scripture which proves you have no credibility "And such were some of you:" Just what do you think that means in your "opinion"?

    Scripture source please, and you are wrong as usual. Legalism is the belief that one must follow the Laws of God to the letter in order to be saved, and ignoring Grace. Have you ever read Matthew 23? I found the site you copied your argument from, and it was just as phony as Trump.

    Maybe you should try to site one post of mine that is based on legalism?

    Then too, you failed in your attempt to prove Trump is a Christian, and then you tried to say Obama was not a Christian, and now you are saying essentially I am not a Christian. You always seem to try to glorify yourself by being the fool. I post the Biblical description of what is a Christian, and you say your "opinion" is greater then the Word of God, And now you are attempting to say that even Christ, and the Apostles, are "legalists".

    Good luck fool. Your new god will let you down, and you will never even see it coming. As to 1Timothy 3, you didn't bother reading it for yourself, as usual:

    "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?){Trump is ruled by his children Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

    Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without;(Your source screwed this one up too) lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

    And let these also first be proved( And you can prove NONE of them); then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless."
     
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