Who's the Terrorist?

[Mr. Carpenter]

I am a citizen of the US. Born and raised here. Got an "A" in Poli-Sci too...

That's a nice diversion though. But we're talking about the unsavory relationship that starts at Osama Bin Laden, to his brother Salem, business partner with Dubya, and Dubya & McCain belonging to the same ilk, the same party lines.

It's unsettling..especially as a US citizen..

That's really odd then, especially considering your choice of verbiage in your earlier post:

Bush and McCain belong to the same political party in the USA. And the election (of US political parties) is the topic at hand.

Were you under the impressing that we were even remotely discussing an upcoming election in some other country in which the sitting Presidents name was Bush, and the candidate from his party to succeed him was named McCain? IS there in fact an upcoming election, in some other country in which the sitting Presidents name is Bush, and the candidate from his party, that is seeking to succeed him is named McCain? NO?? Then why in Gods name would you phrase it like that? Are you completely mental, or are you in fact a foreigner POSING as an American?

MODS! Please run Sihouettes IP and let us know where he/she/it is from!

The only thing "unsettling" is the fact that you seem to be VERY confused about which country you're in, which election we're discussing, the nationality of those involved, and your inane propensity for attempting to draw some correlary between an investment made by single individual (who never had ANY hostile intentions towards America), who happened to be the half brother of the a$$hole who attacked us, even though they weren't even RAISED together, and the sitting President, based on that single investment in a company that the President owned in 1977, and ESPECIALLY given the fact that the current DNC candidate for that position personally hangs out with, accepts contributions from, and in fact got his start in politics in the home of someone who really DID repeatedly attack America, and not only isn't repentant about it, but who GLOATS about the fact that he got away with it!

In the rational world, your condition is what is commonly referred to as INSANITY.

Oh, and one last thing, if you got an "A" in Polysci, I'd seriously consider SUING the school, because you obviously don't know JACK.

 

[Sihouette]

There is nothing uncertain about my grasp of which country we're in and talking about. You're trying, unsuccessfully, to sideline the main issue which is the disturbing connection between Osama Bin Laden and his brother Salem Bin Laden who went joint-business partners with George Dubya Bush, who palled around with McCain, who was proud to say he supported Bush 90% of the time while in Congress.

Obviously McCain knew and knows about the Bush/Bin Laden connection. And he supported the man publicly "90%" of the time. That's an overwhelming nod of support. So it's like saying that McCain supports terrorism or at least those who pal around with terrorists.

I'll recap. Osama and Salem came from the same family. Blood brothers raised in an arab home where the foundations of their beliefs were instilled. Osama took the more overt role of expressing distaste for American beliefs while Salem apparently took the more covert role of gutting our economy via backroom deals with Texas oil barons like the Bush family...cutting golf-course deals to squelch alternative energy, recall and crush piles of 2000 GM volts in favor of The Hummer...stuff like that...to keep US oil barons fat and american dollars flowing into the arab economies...to our ultimate ruin..

Terrorism comes in many forms. Our founding fathers sought to rid our country of tyranny "in all it's forms", not just big bold ones with pipe bombs, but also those forms of subtle ruin.

I have a big problem with Bush's connection with the Bin Laden family, and with McCain's connection with Bush's ilk. It feels icky.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

There is nothing uncertain about my grasp of which country we're in and talking about. You're trying, unsuccessfully, to sideline the main issue which is the disturbing connection between Osama Bin Laden and his brother Salem Bin Laden who went joint-business partners with George Dubya Bush, who palled around with McCain, who was proud to say he supported Bush 90% of the time while in Congress.

Wrong again (as usual). I'm not "sidelining" anything, I'm blowing holes all through your entire tissue thin facade of conspiratorial horse-puckey! Now, go to the store and buy a fresh case of Reynolds Wrap, it's obvious that the alien space rays are frying your synapses.

 

[Sihouette]

The nastier you get in your replies, the more I feel I've hit a sensitive spot...and the nail on the head.

Ransacking our economy is nothing short of a terrorist act. Bush and the Bin Laden family acting in concert to funnel american money away from our country and to rich Texans and the Middle East has effective bled our economy and made us weak. Making the US weak and vulnerable is akin to treason. And this in concert with Osama Bin Laden's brother no less?

Icky icky icky.

 

[BigRob]

Ransacking our economy is nothing short of a terrorist act. Bush and the Bin Laden family acting in concert to funnel american money away from our country and to rich Texans

Funneling all that American money to those foreign Texans.

That said, I think if you are claiming that Bush and the Bin Laden family were connected and planned that oil demand would skyrocket in places like China and India and send the price up, then Bush must be the biggest genius of all time to get away with it, or you are just grasping at straws.

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

The nastier you get in your replies, the more I feel I've hit a sensitive spot...and the nail on the head.

The only reason I've been "nasty", is becuase you're not standing right in front of me, where I could hit you in the head with a 2X4 for being this STUPID.

Ransacking our economy is nothing short of a terrorist act.

Great, then go after the Democrats in Congress who wrote the laws that ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.

Bush and the Bin Laden family acting in concert to funnel american money away from our country and to rich Texans and the Middle East has effective bled our economy and made us weak. Making the US weak and vulnerable is akin to treason. And this in concert with Osama Bin Laden's brother no less?

Icky icky icky.

And this is where you go completely brain dead. The only "tie" between President Bush and the Bin Ladens was in 1977 when Salem invested some money into a company that Bush owned (but later LOST). Really, you sound as addled as Oliver Stone's bovine excrement in JFK. It just doesn't hold up to close scrutiny.

 

[PLC1]

The only reason I've been "nasty", is becuase you're not standing right in front of me, where I could hit you in the head with a 2X4 for being this STUPID.



Great, then go after the Democrats in Congress who wrote the laws that ALLOWED IT TO HAPPEN.



And this is where you go completely brain dead. The only "tie" between President Bush and the Bin Ladens was in 1977 when Salem invested some money into a company that Bush owned (but later LOST). Really, you sound as addled as Oliver Stone's bovine excrement in JFK. It just doesn't hold up to close scrutiny.

The reason you've been "nasty" is that you have no real argument.

That's kind of sad, since Sihouette has been posting some statements that should be easy to dispute.

However, the fact remains that the Bush/Bin Laden ties are no more tenuous or difficult to document than the Obama Ayres ties are.

Check this one out, as an example.

 

[luluy]

A lot of people are afraid of an Obama President. He not only was close with terrorists, but is found to have visited Iran before he started to Harvard . How do you think a man can take an around world trip (Iran Included) when he was making $12000. a year. much less go to such an expensive college? He had a Muslim roommate, and he stayed with their family awhile. Doesn't that make you think? No wonder he said he would go sit down and talk to Iran's Prime Minister. Of course we all know Iran is not a friend of America and they hate Isareal. Jesse Jackson said the other day, If Obama got elected, he would see that Isreal would not be our friend. I am seriously afraid that if Obama gets elected, we will no more be a free country. That is the change he wants. Did you ever see him pledge the American Flag. I also believe he and his wife resent Whites. I have nothing against Blacks, actually I have friends that are black, but they are not for Obama! All you true Americans better check his background out, this is a very serious election for our country!

 

[Sihouette]

Of course Iran isn't a friend of America. America has been bombing the crud out of its neighbor. And Israel just started up not too long ago and began laying claim to Palestinian territory and bombing them all in the name of its holyland relics and supposed "rights" to be there..

It would be as if Korea suddenly decided it wanted Mexico's oil and just waltzed right in and started bombing the crud out of Mexico and installing a puppet goverment there and Korea's buddy, say, Nepal, decided their holyland was Florida and they moved into the Keys and started disputing Miami as their "promised land" birthright. And Korea's new position in Mexico allowed them to assist the nepalese in their quest.

We would, in that scenario, neither like nor respect Korea nor Nepal, now would we?

Yet we arrogant americans assume that if we want to pull a stunt like that in the Eastern Hemisphere, then the whole friggin' world should have no problem with it right? Wrong. They do. And they have a right to.

Put the shoe on the other foot pal.

And Bush wasnt' palling around with just any old terrorist. He was associating with THE terrorist family, the Bin Ladens. Just because Salem's area of undoing the US was in the economic realm, doesn't make the association any more benign. In fact in many ways it was infinitely more insidious. And blame Congress? Yes, but the influence bred and promoted via the Bush/Cheney power regieme had a HUGE hand in how Congress made it's anti-alternative energy Bills flow through and call the shots all these years. BigOil, via the Bush family name (daddy Bush headed the CIA dontcha know) has been ushered into Congress on a red carpet. And that red carpet is stained that way from the blood of thousands for profiteering and greed.

The Bush/Bin Laden connection is the most alarming association between two families that I can think of. It is not to be trivialized and those who do so are themselves suspect of sympathizing with terrorists. It is blatant and foul that they were in business together...knowing how arab families are essentially single-minded in their cohesive ilk, overt or not..

 

[Mr. Carpenter]

The reason you've been "nasty" is that you have no real argument.

That's kind of sad, since Sihouette has been posting some statements that should be easy to dispute.

Wrong again. I've been "nasty" because anyone so totally brain dead as to come up with some complete tin-foil hatted, barking moonbat drivel as that is entirely too intellectually challenged to comprehend the stupidity of their argument, or to accept any refutations.

Frankly you're entire "you got nasty so you lost" mantra is so intellectually dishonest it's frightening. It seems that you've chugged entirely too much of the PC Kool-Aid to understand that telling someone that they're too stupid to be bothered with is not an indication of a lack of an argument, it's simply an acknowledgement of the realization that they're too stupid to waste the time and energy on TO refute their insane blather.

However, the fact remains that the Bush/Bin Laden ties are no more tenuous or difficult to document than the Obama Ayres ties are.

And that's pure crap. If Usama Bin Laden had sat in President Bush's living room and written the check, just like Obama actually got his political start in Bill Ayers living room, you might have a point, but since it was UBL's HALF-brother, who wasn't even raised with UBL who made the investment, through a 3rd party, there simply is no connection between UBL and the Bush's that has any bearing on the attacks of 9-11.

Check this one out, as an example.

Your "source" is full of nothing but half-truths, lies, and misdirection. Try again.

 

[Sihouette]

Bush and Bin Laden were in business together.

Source: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/09_18_01_bushbin.html

There are direct historical links between Osama bin Laden's business interests and those of the Bush family. On September 15 I received the following message from FTW subscriber, Professor John Metzger of Michigan State University:

"We should revisit the history of BCCI, a bank used by the legendary Palestinian terrorist known as Abu Nidal. BCCI was closely tied to American and Pakistan intelligence. Its clients included the Afghan rebels, and the brother of Osama bin Laden, Salem. Salem bin Laden named Houston investment broker James R. Bath as his business representative in Texas, right after George W. BushÕs father became CIA director in 1976. By 1977, Bath invested $50,000 into juniorÕs first business, Arbusto Energy, while Osama bin Laden would soon become a CIA asset. George W. BushÕs FBI director Robert Mueller was part of the Justice DepartmentÕs questionable investigation of BCCI. (On BCCI, the bin Ladens, and the Bushes, see the books, The Outlaw Bank, A Full Service Bank, and Fortunate Son)." Further details of the business and financial relationships between the Bush and bin Laden family are found in Peter Brewton's 1992 book The Mafia, CIA and George Bush. BCCI, incidentally, was founded by a Pakistani.

Economics Professor Michel Chossudovsky of the University of Ottawa has just completed a detailed history of bin Laden's career detailing his secret funding and logistical support to terrorist organizations beginning from his early CIA-supported roots in the 1980s as a "freedom fighter" through to the present day. Chossudovsky's compelling and well documented article, Who Is Osama Bin Laden? dated Sept 12, 2001 can be found on the Internet at: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html...

.. As FTW described in 1998, and as confirmed by Chossudovsky, the key to understanding U.S. support of bin Laden is to grasp that he has always been controlled by a cutout, the Pakistani government and its intelligence service the ISI. In this manner there has been virtually no direct contact between bin Laden and the CIA. This has served the dual purpose of maintaining his apparent "purity" with his followers and providing plausible deniability for the CIA.

There's more in that article about links to the heroin trade which I didn't include for purposes of simplicity here. But if you want a more thorough looksie into the deeper foundations of how money works for certain people and the things they do to get it and keep it for themselves, just read the rest of the article.

I'll say it again: the Bush/GOP link to Bin Laden is icky. And Bin Laden is not just any terrorist. He is THE terrorist.

 

[top gun]

OK I am still confused.

I know that you are not calling your messiah the terrorist, I am following enough to catch on to that

but are you saying that Bush is the terrorist or that McCain is the terrorist

please just spell it out instead of speaking in code

a name here ---> [ ] is the terrorist

Well you already got it right [ ] is the terrorist... NOBODY is the terrorist! That's just bull $hit that the Right made up because they have no plan and don't want to admit McSame voted with Bush 95% of the time, misunderstood the economy before and would just do more Bushisms in the future.

 

[PLC1]

Wrong again. I've been "nasty" because anyone so totally brain dead as to come up with some complete tin-foil hatted, barking moonbat drivel as that is entirely too intellectually challenged to comprehend the stupidity of their argument, or to accept any refutations.

Frankly you're entire "you got nasty so you lost" mantra is so intellectually dishonest it's frightening. It seems that you've chugged entirely too much of the PC Kool-Aid to understand that telling someone that they're too stupid to be bothered with is not an indication of a lack of an argument, it's simply an acknowledgement of the realization that they're too stupid to waste the time and energy on TO refute their insane blather.



And that's pure crap. If Usama Bin Laden had sat in President Bush's living room and written the check, just like Obama actually got his political start in Bill Ayers living room, you might have a point, but since it was UBL's HALF-brother, who wasn't even raised with UBL who made the investment, through a 3rd party, there simply is no connection between UBL and the Bush's that has any bearing on the attacks of 9-11.



Your "source" is full of nothing but half-truths, lies, and misdirection. Try again.

First of all, saying that someone is brain dead because they don't agree with your point of view is not debate. It is intellectual laziness of the worst kind, and confirms that the speaker has no valid argument.

Second, I didn't say that Bush had ties with Bin Laden, only that the ties between Obama and Ayres were just as tenuous.

Posted by Sihouette:

Of course Iran isn't a friend of America. America has been bombing the crud out of its neighbor. And Israel just started up not too long ago and began laying claim to Palestinian territory and bombing them all in the name of its holyland relics and supposed "rights" to be there..

Actually, one would think that having attacked Iraq would be a positive in the eyes of the Iranians, as those two countries have been enemies for decades. Ahmadinajad is probably more than glad to have his old enemy occupied by the infidel, and is hoping that we leave before that enemy regains enough strength to ward off an attack by his own country.

There, Mr. Carpenter, that's how you dispute someone's argument. Instead of saying that they're an idiot for not seeing your point of view, you use fact and logic instead. You try it.

 

[BigRob]

Actually, one would think that having attacked Iraq would be a positive in the eyes of the Iranians, as those two countries have been enemies for decades. Ahmadinajad is probably more than glad to have his old enemy occupied by the infidel, and is hoping that we leave before that enemy regains enough strength to ward off an attack by his own country.

There, Mr. Carpenter, that's how you dispute someone's argument. Instead of saying that they're an idiot for not seeing your point of view, you use fact and logic instead. You try it.

Iran is no doubt happy that we are stuck in Iraq. I am not sure "happy" is the word I would pick for them to describe our presence there.

Think of it from their point of view.

1) 9/11 happens.
2) We label Iraq, Iran, and North Korea as the Axis of Evil.
3) We invade Iraq.
4) North Korea tests a bomb, we continue to push for diplomacy with North Korea.
5) Iran is all but surrounded (at the time) by the the US, in Iraq, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
6) Heavy saber-rattling by the US about the Iranian nuclear program and talk of invasion.

If I was Iran, I would have done exactly what they did.
1) Major oil deals to countries with the veto at the UN.
2) Put the nuclear program on full speed ahead based on the fact that of the three designated countries, the US invaded one, and backed off the other after a bomb was tested.
3) Anti-Israeli and US rhetoric to placate the people who are suffering in a bad domestic situation, and facing banking sanctions by the United States.

For those who say Iran is not a rational actor, I say, why not? Everything they have done has been a rational decision. While it is certainly odd, it is rational.

 

[Sihouette]

We're not in Korea because they don't have oil.

The Bush's and Bin Ladens have teamed up to strip this country of its revenue. Which is treasonous. And the GOP cries foul over Obama's brief time with Ayers.

The GOP is nothing but organized crime. I find it funny when they point fingers of judgement at other people who they say have done the very crimes they themselves are the masters of.