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Why are Townhall Dem Congressmen being shouted down? To stop the flow of lies!

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by Little-Acorn, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    We've heard several reports of so-called "Town Hall Meetings" where congressmen (usually Democrats) start talking to their constituents about the benefits of the coming Govt-run Health Care, and they get interrupted, booed, and sometimes shouted down by their voters.

    The Democrats immediately run to the nearest microphone or blog PC, and announce that the people shouting them down were merely drones, sent by various sinister party leaders with instructions to paralyze the communication process. Even though they have been unable to name a single actual instance of any voter being "instructed" or "sent" by anyone.

    The Dem Congressmen have been careful not to address the idea that maybe these people were actual concerned citizens who came on their own, who thought that a govt takeover of Health Care was a BAD thing. And they have especially avoided discussing the idea that those citizens may be right.

    Why ARE these citizens shouting down the Congressmen?

    The answer is simple: They don't want the Congressmen filling the time of the meeting with lies.

    It's easy to find TV and radio shows that have both conservative and leftist guests, where the guests get asked questions about political matters. And in nearly every one, when the leftist gets asked about an indefensible agenda such as govt-run Health care or Social Security etc., the leftist either changes the subject or starts telling bald lies ("you won't lose your present health care", "you can always purchase your own private health care under the House plan", etc.).... and then keeps talking in that vein, running out the clock and preventing any debunking or actual discussion.

    People watching those shows are inevitably frustrated (except for viewers who rotely believe and see nothing to question), but can do nothing about it. And they watch opportunity after opportunity to slide past, with no progress toward a solution that will work.

    Finally, come the Town Hall meetings where they themselves can participate... and where an actual lawmaker will be present. Great so far... but when the meeting starts, they hear the same bald lies start up. And when they try to question them, the questions are ignored, subject changed, and the lies resume.

    But now, unlike a TV show they can only watch silently, they can do something about it. They can't make the congressman tell the truth. But they can at least let him know what they think of statements like "Govt health care will cover 40 million more patients but cost less with no reduction in quality".

    They can't make him discuss the absurdity of such statements, or even get him to acknowledge that questions have been asked. But they can at least stop the flow of lies, finally... and they do exactly that.

    Congressmen, if you don't want to get interrupted, booed, or even shouted down, come ready for a DISCUSSION. That's where you present your points, citing HONEST reasons why you think they will work, then listen to the other guy discuss them and present his points, then discuss his points HONESTLY without trying to ignore or mischaracterize them.

    Try it, Congressman. It will be a new experience for some of you.

    But I should warn you: This approach carries risks. And the risks will be worse, if you are pushing an agenda that flat-out won't work... such as govt-run Health Care. You really should avoid trying to push such things, if you want to have an honest discussion with your constituents, and come out in one piece. Because citizens who know the details of your agenda, will take it apart piece by piece, and you will be unable to refute their statements, no matter how many chances they give you.

    This is the crux of the matter. You are pushing an indefensible agenda, you know in your heart it won't work, you still won't give it up, and you have these Town Hall meetings to go to. You're between a rock and a hard place, and I don't envy you. If you still want to push this unworkable plan, you will have to lie about it (as you have been doing) to make it look good. But as you are finding out, your constituents have serious concerns over what you are trying to impose on them. And they have had it up to here wiith the lies you and your party have been telling about your plans. And when they finally get you in a forum where they can answer you, they aren't about to let you continue with the lies. They can't force you to tell the truth - what you say is always up to you, as it should be. But they can at least, finally, shut down the lies. And they will.

    Responding to them with even more lies (They were paid and shipped in by insurance companies, they are drones, they are Nazis etc.) will not help your cause. Particularly when the next election rolls around. And whining that they are "out of control", is nothing less than an acknowledgement that Democracy is working. No, Congressman, you cannot control them. You cannot make them line up and accept a scheme they know is unworkable, and you can't fool them into it by lying about it. If you try... well, you've seen what their response is, when they're finally allowed to respond. And that's exactly as it should be.

    Your choices here are limited, Congressman. If you want to avoid being booed, heckled, and shouted down, you can start pushing a different agenda, one that WILL work. And hold town meetings to tell constituents about it, and listen to and discuss their replies. You will find you are NOT shouted down, if you are able to give them honset, rational reasons why your new plan WILL work - something you can't do with the present govt-run Health Care scheme.

    Why are you, Congressman, being shouted down at today's Town Hall meetings?

    Because with the dreadful lack of planning and insight that went into the unworkable Health Care plan you are presenting, along with the running string of lies you keep telling about it, that's the only response you deserve.
     
  2. Little-Acorn

    Little-Acorn Well-Known Member

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    .

    As for the notion that the protesters were there because of some outside "organizer"....

    .

    [​IMG]
     
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    There is only one reason why people are bused in to purposely disrupt and try to disallow good American citizens from simply hearing the good side of Health Insurance Reform...

    They know if all the good is explained they people will continue to want reform. There's no other reason possible.

    If it was truly a terrible plan these thugs and hecklers would just let our elected Representatives explain it and if a bad deal after explained those hearing it would simply say... no, we don't want that.

    But the tea bagging thugs & hecklers know if explained... Health Insurance Reform will only be that much MORE popular!

    So they try to play the bully card. But that won't work. People already caught on to this pitiful grandstand trick long ago. America won't be held back from progress any longer.

    God Bless America... and God's speed for our great new President to better America for Americans!


    Don't believe the do nothing hecklers... believe the doctors...

     
  4. r0beph

    r0beph New Member

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    There is a lot they're not talking about going on at these things. And those things they're talking about are being spun in a direction that differs from what they're saying. It's not "true blue american's exercising their rights" it's disruptive

    Death threats;

    http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=6950802

    Obnoxious interrupting behaviors. Also included in this video, the SS Bolt on the sign (this lead to the Pelosi comment about Swastikas...yeah, no swastika, but I assure you the SS symbol carries as much hatred as the swastika did. The SS Bolt was worn on the arm bands of Hitler's personal guard. So yeah, what Pelosi said, wasn't just out of her ass)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjl-IUtU_w8
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-uMzvKKM

    And once more, look at the top left sign there
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjl-IUtU_w8#t=1m20s

    These town hall meetings are supposed to give a chance for the audience to speak, however often the audience members didn't get their chance because of the obnoxious behaviors of those who refused to wait their turn with the mic. Its really sick.


    I also keep hearing the far right bringing up the freedoms that allow protest. Where the hell were they during the last few RNCs (since at least 2000) When we were forced into "Free Speech Zones" Which IS unconstitutional, what ISN'T unconstitutional is complaining that people are being disruptive to an orderly meeting, they have no constitutional protection to protest in this manner. Hypocrisy is their favorite tool, isn't it.
     
  5. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be interesting to find out how many of those same nuts screaming outside are also birthers...just a hunch lol
     
  6. ASPCA4EVER

    ASPCA4EVER New Member

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    I hear the choir singing your song...and I couldn't agree
    with you more;).
    Well written and well stated too!!! :)
     
  7. TruthAboveAll

    TruthAboveAll Active Member

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    Wrong. They people are starting to understand the full ramifications of this monstrosity of a bill. I'm so glad you got with the talking point and utilized the "Insurance Reform" line. You need to drop that 'Health' part, though. People are wising up to the fact that health care in the U.S. may not be perfect, but is a far cry better than anywhere else in the world.

    There's no other reason possible? How idiotic. That is absolutely the last reason possible. Please, feel free to tell me some details of all "the good".
    [/QUOTE]Yeah, right. What Pollyanna school-of-thought did that come from? They don't answer phone calls. They reply to e-mails with stock, condescending answers about how they're so informed and you know nothing. I've read more of the bill than my own Rep. has. He relies on his staffers to read and relay to him what it contains. We have Rep. Conyers stating that it's too much to digest without lawyers to assist. Holy smokes! And you say to sit there, listen politely to the garbage they spew, then say "no, we don't want that"?
    Interesting that you think to describe people doing the same things advocated by anyone against Bush, Republicans or even anything Conservative over the past eight years as thugs and hecklers. As Hilary so aptly put it:
    Only in this case, it would have to be "I'm sick and tired of people who say that if you debate, protest and disagree with this administration, somehow you're a thug & a heckler." More popular? Must be why PBO's popularity is diving in nearly every poll out there.

    Bully card? You don't call the tactics of this administration bully tactics? What the heck has people being loud, vocal, and disagreeable bully-like? What I'm hoping is that people are catching on to the empty-suit, power grabbing tactics of the left in this country, and that America will not be duped by the globally failed, age-old policies of tyranny and socialism (as a generic term).
    On that we agree: God Bless America. The rest will have to be left to God Himself.

    Believe the doctors? Fine. 450,00 doctors, but that includes medical students, and duplications of doctors within multiple organizations. It also includes the full membership of the organizations, but not necessarily the individual doctors. Just for yucks:

    - I know for a fact that in my family there are confirmed eight different doctors, all of whom belong to both American Academy of Family Physicians and American College of Physicians.
    - Of those eight, three also belong to the American Osteopathic Association.
    - Two more also belong to the American Academy of Pediatrics.
    - Of those eight doctors, none are supportive of National Health Care Reform.
    - One of the other groups, Doctors for America, is trying to get 20,000 doctors to sign up to support Health Reform. So far they have 14,096. (And counting!)
    - According to the U.S. Census Bureau 2009 Statistical Abstract, there are 921,900 doctors in the country. (I don't know what portion of that represents pre-med students or "doctors' in training.)

    Do we have to believe YOUR doctors, or can we believe those from Mayo Clinic, Cleveland Clinic, the AMA, etc. who are against this bill.

    Anyone in their right mind cannot see that there are certain steps we can and should take to improve availability and equity in health care in general, and viability in insurance. But there is no inclusion of torte reform, medical savings account utilization, inter-state policy availaibility, etc. If Congress wants to write a law that can have immediate, positive impact, without further driving the country into bankruptcy, these are a few things they could address that many could agree upon.
     
  8. r0beph

    r0beph New Member

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    How about you give us, for a change, your full and complete, "how it should be done," section. I'm so very tired of constantly hearing how wrong it is that it's being done.

    I see you've mentioned a couple "things they can do" so we'll start there. How should those be implemented, what would they change, will it fix the insurance/healthcare problem?

    Those doctors you cite. That sort of concerns me. What I REALLY want if you're going to use them as an argument crutch is their words giving THEIR reason that THEY don't want this healthcare reform. Because almost every doctor I know is nearing ecstatic. I spend a lot of time in the hospital, about once every month or so, fun ambulance ride and ER visit. Good times, costs me a lot too, insurance decided I wasn't worth keeping around. My doctor the last time I went also thinks insurance is pretty shady. She was saying that about half of the chronic non-terminal conditions that come to the ER (Epilepsy, diabetes, etc) are uninsured because the corporate insurance drops them. I say bury the insurers, bury them deep. They are more concerned with shareholders and profits than doing their job.



    Also, we pay premiums under the false-guise that the insurer will pay for our medical care if we have some horrible happening. Cancer, heart attacks, amputations and so forth. We pay more for our premiums the worth health risks we are. Smoke? Eat 2 lbs of bacon every morning? Have the constant urge to ingest non-consumable chemicals? You're going to pay way more than the average healthy American. This is why premiums are variable, because they know the statistics on your becoming sick is less when you're living a healthy lifestyle. So explain to me why it seems fine to the right that they find some loophole to deny treatment, or hold off on paying for treatment, or give you some BS about a hospital not being in a network, or just keep giving your the runaround until you hopefully die. The current status of insurers is illegal in every other industry. In manufacturing they are required not only to ensure the safety of their workers, but of their products as well, hence mass recalls. Insurance you can pay 100-200$ a month for 20 years and the first time you have a major medical ordeal you find yourself screwed. Yet unlike a dangerous seatbelt in a car that needs to be replaced, you can't do much about your insurance. You've already paid into it, they will NEVER refund that, and if you end up needing to take them to court because they're screwing you so bad, chances are you'll die before the outcome, so it won't help you afford that chemo.

    Seriously, the insurance industry commits acts that in any other industry would be considered criminal. If this healthcare stuff passes and I watch every insurer go bankrupt I will not bat an eyelash once if everyone from the CEO, shareholders, telemarketers, lawyers, or even the janitors in their buildings found themselves broke and on the street. It is deserved.

    I'm good with my finances, I've never had an economic problem in my life. I always paid my insurance, they screwed me and now my finances are pretty much screwed. I have zero sympathy.

    But, I digress. Back to you. What should we do, since you seem to know so well what we shouldn't do. I didn't see anyone on the right trying to fix this during bush. Why does the right only seem to care when they dislike the way someone who is actually trying to do something, is doing it.
     
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