Why did Osama have to take out the WTC?

[SW85]

You have acknowledged my point I wanted to make and now you are simply trying to make your point with suggesting that Osama is intent on a regime which is just as oppressive as what now exists in Saudi. It is your suggestion and thereby it's yours to prove, not mine to disprove. I also understand that you have to imagine the worst with Osama because of your American need to demonize him. And in fact you come off as sounding a little foolish in the first place to even suggest that you have any concerns about the plight of the Saudi people.

(1) He has openly stated his desire to reestablish the caliphate, which existed in history and which was notoriously aggressive, belligerent, and repressive. Do you deny this?

(2) I don't care in the slightest about bin Laden and so feel no need to "demonize" him. He is not a leader in any sense of the word, only a financier -- and his financial assets are now largely frozen. I could attribute your desire to evangelize him to your Canadianness, but I tremble for fear of being dragged before your dread Human Rights Commissions!

(3) I don't care in the slightest about Saudis, either, and nothing I've ever said should indicate as much.

Why should a nationalist not care about others when it is clear from the start that he has devoted his life to fighting for others and against first Soviet aggression and now US aggression.

You're misunderstanding me.

If his motives were exclusively nationalistic he would not give a fig about Jordanians.

But he does give a fig about Jordanians. Ergo his motives must not be exclusively nationalistic.

Religious nationalism? That's amusing and you must tell me more. I recognize too that your continuing use of the word 'infidel' has a purpose but it is only serving your own purpose.

Continuing? That's the first time I've used the word "infidel" in this thread and, as far as I can recall, any time within the last few months.

I refer to the distinction between the dar al-Islam and the dar al-Harb.

. Does it not suffice to say that he is fighting imperialist evil for a Muslim cause which he envisions as the choice of his people?

That's an assertion, not an argument.

Re: "the choice of his people", I am again uninterested. The interests of the west do not align in favor of a united Middle Eastern caliphate with all the attendant belligerence and oppression and so it must not be permitted. That's all.

You decided in the beginning to play a game of picking out typos and spelling mistakes.

I defy you to point out where I've challenged you on typos. This is an Internet forum, not a term paper.

Do not call me a petty little man. It is against the rules! I have reported your post for that.

You bait me on the basis of a lie and then report me for calling you out on it? You are twice as petty as I thought originally. And moreover you have no stomach for banter.

 

[UShadItComing]

(1) He has openly stated his desire to reestablish the caliphate, which existed in history and which was notoriously aggressive, belligerent, and repressive. Do you deny this?

So were the crusades but americans still want to be christians.

(2) I don't care in the slightest about bin Laden and so feel no need to "demonize" him. He is not a leader in any sense of the word, only a financier -- and his financial assets are now largely frozen. I could attribute your desire to evangelize him to your Canadianness, but I tremble for fear of being dragged before your dread Human Rights Commissions!

You're sure making a lot of noise about somebody you don't care about. And to say he's nothing but a financier is just plain ridiculous. He's a moral and spiritual leader for millions. You should destroy your credibility by trying to get stupid ideas like that past me.

(3) I don't care in the slightest about Saudis, either, and nothing I've ever said should indicate as much.

Americans generally don't care about any other country and I've been trying to impress that fact on you people ever since I started on this forum. I've mentioned Hutton's, 'A Declaration of Interdependence' several times because I think it's required reading for 'you' people.

You're misunderstanding me.

If his motives were exclusively nationalistic he would not give a fig about Jordanians.

But he does give a fig about Jordanians. Ergo his motives must not be exclusively nationalistic.

You just lack the ability to make yourself understood. And only an american would not understand how one can care about others and still be a nationalist. Exclusively is your word, not mine.

Continuing? That's the first time I've used the word "infidel" in this thread and, as far as I can recall, any time within the last few months.

I refer to the distinction between the dar al-Islam and the dar al-Harb.

You're grasping at straws in your mad hate toward Osama, who you claiim to not care about.

Re: "the choice of his people", I am again uninterested. The interests of the west do not align in favor of a united Middle Eastern caliphate with all the attendant belligerence and oppression and so it must not be permitted. That's all.

Your arrogance has you believing that the interests of the West come before the people of the ME own interests. I don't subscribe to it.

I defy you to point out where I've challenged you on typos. This is an Internet forum, not a term paper.

I can't remember if you challenged a typo or a spelling error but it's not important. And it was quite a while ago and I'm not going to go searching for it. Just get over it and don't mess with me on such childish issues.

You bait me on the basis of a lie and then report me for calling you out on it? You are twice as petty as I thought originally. And moreover you have no stomach for banter.

Did I report you? I may have but it's not all that important to me anymore. Just behave yourself and don't leave yourself open to needing to be reported.

What is your particular problem anyway? My name irk you because you know it contains some truth. What do you think the attacks on 9/11 were about? Were they jealous of your t.v. sets and your stuff?

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

This is an Assertion.. but i figured a comical one...

Mister Ushaditcoming.

Lets say that America did bargin with Osama and pulled troops out of Saudia Arbia, that would in turn mean maybe we should pull back all the troops we have stationed in other countries also. That being said it would further more mean that a reduction in government was needed because if we reduced military size then why would we need a gaint chunk of the pentagon.. or hell .. if we pulled back troop counts from across the globe why would we even need Homeland security when our military could probably easily secure our borders and play a better role of prevention at terrorism in America.. with that being said we would no longer truely need the C.I.A or N.S.A because we would have to change our foriegn policy to better suit the fact we don't have troops abroad anymore and no longer need to meddle in foriegn affairs with spies and espionage.

WoW... reduction in government , increase in American security and our basic economy (( since we won't need to fund so much towards our military or side agencies like C.I.A or N.S.A )) and a reduction in taxes because of smaller government...

Maybe this is a strech .. but sounds like your a DAMN CONSERVATIVE TO ME!!!
Welcome to the club bro. Nice to see we have converted you Now if you could just remove your hipocritcal "Anti-Conservative Canadian" slogan and the conversion will be complete

BTW maybe you should do some research on Ron Paul and find out just how conservative your ideas are! LMAO

 

[UShadItComing]

This is an Assertion.. but i figured a comical one...

Mister Ushaditcoming.

Lets say that America did bargin with Osama and pulled troops out of Saudia Arbia, that would in turn mean maybe we should pull back all the troops we have stationed in other countries also. That being said it would further more mean that a reduction in government was needed because if we reduced military size then why would we need a gaint chunk of the pentagon.. or hell .. if we pulled back troop counts from across the globe why would we even need Homeland security when our military could probably easily secure our borders and play a better role of prevention at terrorism in America.. with that being said we would no longer truely need the C.I.A or N.S.A because we would have to change our foriegn policy to better suit the fact we don't have troops abroad anymore and no longer need to meddle in foriegn affairs with spies and espionage.

WoW... reduction in government , increase in American security and our basic economy (( since we won't need to fund so much towards our military or side agencies like C.I.A or N.S.A )) and a reduction in taxes because of smaller government...

Maybe this is a strech .. but sounds like your a DAMN CONSERVATIVE TO ME!!!
Welcome to the club bro. Nice to see we have converted you Now if you could just remove your hipocritcal "Anti-Conservative Canadian" slogan and the conversion will be complete

BTW maybe you should do some research on Ron Paul and find out just how conservative your ideas are! LMAO

In theory it all sounds good Dysfunc but in the real world it's just a bunch of libertarian pie in the sky. Ron Paul's lost his marbles.

I think I'll just reamin an anti-conservative until I see Ron Paul's and your ideas working.

But what is really interesting to me is the fact that Americans can never listen to reason when it comes to adopting sensible reforms to capitalism. It's either the rabid right form you have which has no interest in sensible social platforms for the people or it's Ron Paul's extremism. Maybe that's something we can talk about here?

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

In theory it all sounds good Dysfunc but in the real world it's just a bunch of libertarian pie in the sky. Ron Paul's lost his marbles.

I think I'll just reamin an anti-conservative until I see Ron Paul's and your ideas working.

But what is really interesting to me is the fact that Americans can never listen to reason when it comes to adopting sensible reforms to capitalism. It's either the rabid right form you have which has no interest in sensible social platforms for the people or it's Ron Paul's extremism. Maybe that's something we can talk about here?

While I admit that while the complete remove of certain parts of our government seem wild and crazy.. what makes you think that these parts of the government are doing any good for its people?!?! The fact is that the parts we wish to change are doing increasingly more harm then good on now a GLOBAL scene.

Point and case. The C.I.A. is half the reason for the anmosity of middle eastern countries towards us as well our screwed up view-points in Foriegn policy.. how is it so crazy to completely remove the C.I.A's power which has only given us the knowedgle to water-board people and the further decline of american princples upholding the Geneva Convention?

Did you know that America had warning about the impending 9/11 attacks ahead of time... It came from the FBI who keeps running count of terrorists in our nation but yet was fumbled reaching the people it needed to because the information had to go thru the C.I.A first.

The I.R.S is direct violation of the fifth amendment and further tears down the economy by taxing people for labor instead of finished goods.

Reform can be a widely envisioned thought... and the more you read into the stucture of our governemtn the more it seems that the FBI could easily handle all the C.I.A and N.S.A's tasks and a change in simple goverment spending could completely remove the I.R.S from being a part of the arguement because you wouldn't need the tax money anymore...

(( May I point out your post about 68% of Foriegn Companies not paying taxes in America? that in itself would be a nice form of revenue to replace taxes on labor))

Most Ron Paul supporters are not crazy..but in turn see our Government as Crazy.. adding new laws that limit are rights daily. Everyone talks about change... but when we present you sweeping change that could fix all the problems instead of "wishful thinking" presented by Obama you gawk and laugh it off as idiotic ramblings or pipe dreams...

BTW JFK's assertion that we should go to the moon was laugh off as a pipe dream on more then on occassion.. Why should this be any different..

And as a last point... Have you even checked into Ron Pauls intergrity... Hes a damn Saint in comparision to McCain or Obama and has never once flip-glopped on a single issue.

He stated your EXACT view points on the war against IRAQ! Its really shameful... that the best possible canadaite.. comes along and you all shun him without any kind of research.. You would really have us choice between another warmongering Rep or a wishy washy feel good Dem who at every turn shows he the most Un-Democratic Canadaiate in decades?

Honestly thou... I would hope you could turn a bit more info against him them "pie in the sky" or other ridiclous retorts... and simply proves that your a conservative-in-the-closet

Please come out of the closet friend.. We are all here waiting for you

 

[UShadItComing]

I'm aware that Ron Paul thinks building 7 was an inside job.

Look pal, you're on the right track on a lot of things but it's only because you are so totally disenfranchized with your government that you will turn anywhere for hope. And this is once again americans refusing to accept common sense reform of government. Ron Paul is clever in that he sat down and figured out how to make people like you feel good and it works because Americans are very susceptible to feel good rubbish.

Let me put this in perspective for you: McCain says to drill for oil and it's hugely popular with the american people. It's all b.s. of course but it feels good at the time. Your electorate is simply uninformed and basically dumbed down enough to jump at anything that feels good without having to apply themselves and do a littel research. Then Obama mentions inflating tires, Fox news does an assassintion on him for that, and the people buy it. I sit back as an informed Canadian and just shake my head in bewilderment.

And that is essentially what Ron Paul has done to you albeit on a slightly higher level which will appeal to some educated people. But also because of people's greed of course.

You americans just continue to reject the example the rest of the first world offers you because you believe that your way, the American way, is the only way. Well it isn't anymore and it's failing your country. And Ron Paul is not offering anything that will fix it all that much without making it worse in other areas.

Look, if you want me to be a conservative then suit yourself. Call me what you like but it's not going to change the fact that I am a liberal who subscribes to a capitalist system which is not bent out of shape to the extreme. You need to open your mind a little bit.

 

[Mr.Dysfunctional]

I'm aware that Ron Paul thinks building 7 was an inside job.

Look pal, you're on the right track on a lot of things but it's only because you are so totally disenfranchized with your government that you will turn anywhere for hope. And this is once again americans refusing to accept common sense reform of government. Ron Paul is clever in that he sat down and figured out how to make people like you feel good and it works because Americans are very susceptible to feel good rubbish.

Let me put this in perspective for you: McCain says to drill for oil and it's hugely popular with the american people. It's all b.s. of course but it feels good at the time. Your electorate is simply uninformed and basically dumbed down enough to jump at anything that feels good without having to apply themselves and do a littel research. Then Obama mentions inflating tires, Fox news does an assassintion on him for that, and the people buy it. I sit back as an informed Canadian and just shake my head in bewilderment.

And that is essentially what Ron Paul has done to you albeit on a slightly higher level which will appeal to some educated people. But also because of people's greed of course.

You americans just continue to reject the example the rest of the first world offers you because you believe that your way, the American way, is the only way. Well it isn't anymore and it's failing your country. And Ron Paul is not offering anything that will fix it all that much without making it worse in other areas.

Look, if you want me to be a conservative then suit yourself. Call me what you like but it's not going to change the fact that I am a liberal who subscribes to a capitalist system which is not bent out of shape to the extreme. You need to open your mind a little bit.

I'm really starting to realize your view is completely skewed..

First off,.. I never once stated Ron Paul supports 9/11 was an inside job.
As for me.. do I think another investigation is needed .. YOUR DAMN SKIPPY!
Second off.. Can you site.. even one of His views as being Illogical and not a damn good idea for the direction the country should head? The points concerning Obama and McCain are honestly irrellevant... as they honestly don't matter to whats being said in these last few points.. But to further that arguement.. can you site an idea by any of the canadiates you favor as being a GOOD idea? I'm pretty sure GenSeca before me has already smashed to bits any of Obama's policies... Maybe McCain then? mister flip-flopper in the pocket of any tiny voting community that could possibly get him elected?!?!

And another thing.. Im tired of hereing all this crap with America needing to convert to the entire worlds thought processes. Name a single country with as many rights as the U.S.... Capitalism is the best damn form of government period. While not perfect in every way... it rewards those who are smarter and work harder.

BTW I would gladly support a man who's policies sound legitimate .. and on paper are sound princples that follow the code set down to us by our founding fathers. your right .. Most people like me are disenfrancized from our government.. and I promise you that if elected... Obama or McCain will further that trend even to the dumbed down masses following Obama like Sheep.

Again... Support Policy that is sound.. written down in clear english.. whos motive promises to improve american economy , American Moral and global view of america. Or shall we go with politcs as ususal with McCain , or politics as usual with Obama .. with an inspiring speech thrown with absoutely NO content into HOW hes gonna fix ANYTHING...

If you have no suggestions.. Honest suggestions.. for what could honestly better our world and/or Americans in general.. get out of the way.. Because your constantly pointless arguements (( and they are pointless.. you have yet cited anything that actually has base to it )) are doing nothing but ruining the imagination of the gifted and insightful.