Why does Israel do what it does?

[Kelly]

The conflict started because Israel fired artillery into Lebanon for no apparent reason--that's what I meant when I said 'invaded.' Poor choice of words on my part, I'll admit. Wikipedia states that the conflict started when Lebanon fired rockets, but this is not accurate as the rockets/kidnapping were in retaliation for the artillery. You're right when you say no nation will allow artillery strikes, etc. without serious repercussions. That's exactly why Hezbolah fired off the rockets and did the kidnappings (which I think is worthless by the way). My point here is that Israel always gets away with doing horrible things like dropping cluster bombs over Lebanese neighborhoods. Hezbolah is not the Lebanese government although they see themselves that way and decided to retaliate. But, this had nothing to do with the Lebanese citizens that got zapped by Israeli cluster bombs, and Israel knew it. It was horrible of Israel to keep hitting the people of Lebanon, expecting them to put pressure on the government to root out Hezbolah. This was completely unfair a lot of innocent people. Sure something had to be done...Israel should not act like a bunch of arrogant idiots--firing artillery shells into Lebanon for no reason, firing at a German peacekeeping warship, etc. Israel needs to be put in its proper place as does Hezbolah. If you are curious about what I want, I want Israel to stop its arrogance and racism. I want Israel to admit that it has been wrong and that its people are no better than the rest of us. I want Israel to get the f*** out of Washington DC. I want Israel to draw upon the vast amount of brain power it has as far as medicine and technology go to help the World instead of just fellow Jews. Really, I'm speaking about the conservatives there, not every Israeli. They only 'symbolically' give back land as part of a 'show,' but just go and see any check point over there and how the soldiers treat Palestinians. Sure they'll allow a few kiss-ass ethnic Palestinians to grab a seat or two in the Knesset. But fact of it all is is that Israel is a racist regime that has waged war on an innocent population and doesn't have any more business being there than any other Christian or Muslim. Also, I don't think I said establishing a Palestinian government is not enough. That's probably the only chance at peace.

 

[ArmChair General]

You gotta have some respect for Hezbollah. Nasrullah may look like a fat social studies teacher who needs a shave, but you don't claw your way to the top of a bloody world like that one without brains. The men who run Hezbollah attacked because they finally figured out that they literally cannot lose. The IDF can never expel Hezbollah from South Lebanon, because it's a genuine mass movement, as committed and crazy at the roots as at the top. (As opposed to Arafat's PLO, which they could and did expel from Lebanon because it was topheavy, corrupt and cowardly.) If Israel comes down hard on the Lebanese, another generation learns to hate the Jews down south and dream of bloody revenge. If Israel holds off, then Hezbollah becomes the one victorious Arab/Muslim force in the world, darling of every little nine-year-old Jihadi in Jakarta and Khartoum. If Israel retaliates by blasting every target of value in Lebanon, every TV tower and shopping mall and freeway...well, that's the beauty of the plan: the Shia are the poorest of the poor. They don't own any of that **** anyway. They sit back and laugh watching their neighbors' stuff that they've envied all their lives get blown away, and it's the Israelis who get the blame.

So call'em crazy if it makes you feel better, but don't call'em stupid. Better yet, get used to calling'em "Sir."

Perhaps the most ironic part, is that once again, Hezbollah was just a reaction to the brutal/bloody Israeli occupation of Lebanon.

People just don't learn.

 

[Castle]

The conflict started because Israel fired artillery into Lebanon for no apparent reason--that's what I meant when I said 'invaded.' Poor choice of words on my part, I'll admit. Wikipedia states that the conflict started when Lebanon fired rockets, but this is not accurate as the rockets/kidnapping were in retaliation for the artillery. You're right when you say no nation will allow artillery strikes, etc. without serious repercussions. That's exactly why Hezbolah fired off the rockets and did the kidnappings (which I think is worthless by the way). My point here is that Israel always gets away with doing horrible things like dropping cluster bombs over Lebanese neighborhoods. Hezbolah is not the Lebanese government although they see themselves that way and decided to retaliate. But, this had nothing to do with the Lebanese citizens that got zapped by Israeli cluster bombs, and Israel knew it. It was horrible of Israel to keep hitting the people of Lebanon, expecting them to put pressure on the government to root out Hezbolah. This was completely unfair a lot of innocent people. Sure something had to be done...Israel should not act like a bunch of arrogant idiots--firing artillery shells into Lebanon for no reason, firing at a German peacekeeping warship, etc. Israel needs to be put in its proper place as does Hezbolah. If you are curious about what I want, I want Israel to stop its arrogance and racism. I want Israel to admit that it has been wrong and that its people are no better than the rest of us. I want Israel to get the f*** out of Washington DC. I want Israel to draw upon the vast amount of brain power it has as far as medicine and technology go to help the World instead of just fellow Jews. Really, I'm speaking about the conservatives there, not every Israeli. They only 'symbolically' give back land as part of a 'show,' but just go and see any check point over there and how the soldiers treat Palestinians. Sure they'll allow a few kiss-ass ethnic Palestinians to grab a seat or two in the Knesset. But fact of it all is is that Israel is a racist regime that has waged war on an innocent population and doesn't have any more business being there than any other Christian or Muslim. Also, I don't think I said establishing a Palestinian government is not enough. That's probably the only chance at peace.

Are you doing PR work for Hezhollah? If not, they need to hire you to minimize all the horrible things they are directly responsible for. You did a fantastic job of that here when they could be paying you big bucks for it!

-Castle

 

[Kelly]

Nope. Just telling the truth. Nice try.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

zombieism is RAMPANT in the school system its evident by the Un-Educated response of todays youth

 

[Truth-Bringer]

So yes...the Nazis did butcher children too.

Ok. That doesn't surprise me. But all it means is that the Hebrews did the same thing the Nazis did. And their progeny is claiming moral superiority because the Nazis did it to them.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

I gotta say Truth-Bringer I usually respect your opinion but here you're just being ridiculous. Saying we still bear the burden of events from three thousand years ago

Hey, I'm just telling the truth. That people who claim to be god's chosen ones butchered infants - akin to the evil of the Nazis - and yet seemingly still teach this history and believe it and wanted the same land they claim this god gave to them.

You were comparing genocides. What difference does the time frame make? A genocide is a genocide.

 

[ArmChair General]

Hey, I'm just telling the truth. That people who claim to be god's chosen ones butchered infants - akin to the evil of the Nazis - and yet seemingly still teach this history and believe it and wanted the same land they claim this god gave to them.

You were comparing genocides. What difference does the time frame make? A genocide is a genocide.

Damn Right.

 

[Castle]

Nope. Just telling the truth. Nice try.

I was simply making an observation since you clearly choose to ignore the hand that the Palestinians play in this bloodbath.

Since you're in the mood for truth, here's some more truth for you to neatly sweep under the rug. Do you remember the $10,000 checks Saddam was sending to families of Palestinian homicide bombers as incentive to keep murdering Israeli's? When Palestinians constantly detonate explosives in night clubs, bus stops and grocery stores, how do you expect Israel to respond? The savage extremist groups that poison their minds simply melt back into the Palestinian population knowing that Israel cannot respond without civilian casualties tarnishing their efforts. So then what? Should Israel simply give Hamas what it wants and destroy itself to save Hamas and the Palestinians the trouble? You might think so but I don't. Sorry.

Do you remember Waffa Samir Ibrahim Bass? I'm sure Israel does. The Palestinian woman was treated at a hospital in the southern Israeli city of Beersheba for burns and later attempted to repay them by detonating 22lbs of explosives strapped to her. Thankfully, the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade member failed to murder the Israeli doctors that had previously treated her sorry @ss.

This kind of crap happens all the time yet Israel is the bad guy when it chooses to respond. I promise you Islamic extremist group leaders thank Allah every day that I am not currently the Israeli leader as I would have solved this issue long ago.

btw.... did you agree with Arafat's decision to tell Clinton to F*** himself for his efforts to bring the Pal/Israeli conflict to a peaceful solution. Of course you do so I guess I'm really asking why?

-Castle

 

[TheWaffle]

Hey, I'm just telling the truth. That people who claim to be god's chosen ones butchered infants - akin to the evil of the Nazis - and yet seemingly still teach this history and believe it and wanted the same land they claim this god gave to them.

You were comparing genocides. What difference does the time frame make? A genocide is a genocide.

By your logic I should still hate the Germans for the Holocaust. It's doesn't make any sense. We had a German student live with us for years I have no qualm against them. And like I said why don't we get into the countless genocides that have been carried out in the name of Christ. I don't expect Christians to bear the burden of guilt that should be borne by their ancestors, and likewise the people of Israel cannot be slandered because of actions 3000 years ago. In the exact same way I ask no apology from the German people.

I mean for God's sake, American war planes have bombed infants many times over the years. Don't try to be some moralistic preacher pointing to how if the Jews murdered children 3000 years ago then they deserve to be destroyed even though many hundreds of thousands of times whatever number they killed have been killed in the name of Christ and in the name of Allah. Why do you make a special case in blaming the Jews?

Every religion has evil at some point in its history but to infer that because it once existed then it still exists is ignorant and ridiculous. Maybe I should declare all Christian nations a slander of God's name because in Rwanda thirteen years ago one million people were killed. How about I hate the British because of their violence in India. It doesn't make any sense what you say.

Time frame does matter because things change, unless you have some warped view where ever person born after another carries all the sins of his ancestors. Then we have millions of people who are guilty because their ancestors owned slaves, or because their ancestors followed orders, or because their ancestors dropped the atomic bomb.

 

[ArmChair General]

By your logic I should still hate the Germans for the Holocaust. It's doesn't make any sense. We had a German student live with us for years I have no qualm against them. And like I said why don't we get into the countless genocides that have been carried out in the name of Christ. I don't expect Christians to bear the burden of guilt that should be borne by their ancestors, and likewise the people of Israel cannot be slandered because of actions 3000 years ago. In the exact same way I ask no apology from the German people.

I mean for God's sake, American war planes have bombed infants many times over the years. Don't try to be some moralistic preacher pointing to how if the Jews murdered children 3000 years ago then they deserve to be destroyed even though many hundreds of thousands of times whatever number they killed have been killed in the name of Christ and in the name of Allah. Why do you make a special case in blaming the Jews?

Every religion has evil at some point in its history but to infer that because it once existed then it still exists is ignorant and ridiculous. Maybe I should declare all Christian nations a slander of God's name because in Rwanda thirteen years ago one million people were killed. How about I hate the British because of their violence in India. It doesn't make any sense what you say.

Time frame does matter because things change, unless you have some warped view where ever person born after another carries all the sins of his ancestors. Then we have millions of people who are guilty because their ancestors owned slaves, or because their ancestors followed orders, or because their ancestors dropped the atomic bomb.

I don't think shes being moralistic, and neither am I. Shes just pointing out the obvious truth here, the Israelis, and the Pals, and the Hezzies are all pushing this **** forward. There is no innocent party here. They are all contributing to the bloodshed.

 

[Kelly]

Hey Castle, I see you just posted and i just happened to log on real quick. Hope you're still there.
I don't condone what the Palestinians are doing/have done as far as suicide bombings, telling Clinton to f*** off, etc. I think those things are horrible. I know I seem incredibly biased towards the Pals, but I'm really not. It's just that I feel Israel is trying to commit what we committed when we exterminated the Native Americans. The Israel/Palestine is definitely two-sided, but the Palestinians were there first. I also feel that Israel acts with race in mind and I can't stand to see that. Of course the Palestinians are racist towards Jews, but again, they were there first. The Israelis of today are immigrants mostly from Germany, Poland, and Russia. The Palestinians have been there the whole time and their land, homes, and olive and fig orchards were forcefully taken by Israel. That does not justify the killing of innocent people via suicide bombs, but the Palestinians obviously have no other means to fight back. If you study ethics and know about Double Effect, it tells us that the taking of innocent lives is justified only when an entire populations very survival is at stake. I don't really agree with thig (innocents should NEVER be killed), but it's the only reference we have to go on. That said, the very survival of the Palestinians is at stake. They've been forced into slums with very little food coming in and get hammered with apache helicopter rockets. The Israelis suffer from people blowing themselves up at Starbucks. While both scenarios are horrible, its pretty obvious that the Palestinians are much closer to extinction than the Israelis. Furthermore, in my opinion, the Israelis can stop this mess if they wouldn't be so arrogant and allow a symbiotic culture to exist among both sides. Also, about Hezbolah, I don't agree with them kidnapping or firing rockets into neighborhoods at all. But, if I had to choose sides, I would have had to pull for Hezbolah on that war last year. If a group of my friends and I went to China, popped off some rockets, kidnapped some soliders, and killed a few in the process, would China have the right to declare war on the U.S. and pummel the entire country with cluster bombs? I'm not trying to downplay what Hezbolah did, but it WAS in retaliation for Israel firing artillery shells into Lebanon for no reason whatsoever. With that said, I strongly feel that Israel had no right to pummel Lebanon like they did and I think they're worthless for it. They're way too intelligent not to realize that 99.9% of the Lebanese population they killed or displaced had nothing to do with Hezbolah. I feel that, in this case, Hezbolah were fighting for their country, although it was not wanted or requested by Lebanon and their tactics were unethical according to our standards.

 

[jb_1430]

The Israel/Palestine is definitely two-sided, but the Palestinians were there first.

???? The Jews have been in Israel since before the first Arab ever even entered the region

The Israelis of today are immigrants mostly from Germany, Poland, and Russia. The Palestinians have been there the whole time and their land, homes, and olive and fig orchards were forcefully taken by Israel.

Actually, the majority of Israelis were born in Israel.

I'm not trying to downplay what Hezbolah did, but it WAS in retaliation for Israel firing artillery shells into Lebanon for no reason whatsoever.

????? Your perception has nothing to do with reality. Israel didnt fire shells into Lebanon before the war started. Precisely the opposite. Hezbollah was firing rockets into Israel for no reason other than their desire to kill Jews.
MARK

 

[9sublime]

???? The Jews have been in Israel since before the first Arab ever even entered the region

My grandfather lived in a house the other end of the country when he was younger. He thinks its the most special place to him on earth. He wants it back. The people who live in it now do not share his viewpoint. Should he be allowed it back?

 

[ArmChair General]

???? The Jews have been in Israel since before the first Arab ever even entered the region



Actually, the majority of Israelis were born in Israel.




????? Your perception has nothing to do with reality. Israel didnt fire shells into Lebanon before the war started. Precisely the opposite. Hezbollah was firing rockets into Israel for no reason other than their desire to kill Jews.
MARK

Actually, Israel violated Lebanese airspace daily, and would continually conduct raids into Lebanon, to either assassinate leaders or kidnap suspected bad guys.

If your going to make a big deal out of the one Hezzie raid into Israel, then you have to take a look at Israels actions.

Furthermore, take a look at the Clean Break Scenario. Last years attempt to destroy hezbollah had been planned for over a decade. Furthermore, the actual plans were drawn up with the help of the US military, the hezzie raid was just the pretext the Israelis needed to do what they were already going to do anyways.