9/11 could not have happened as stated

[Dawkinsrocks]

If you want to see what many experts including pilots and US state veterans think about 9/11 and the US administration's version go to

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

Here are a couple of examples, one after they got the flight recorder of one of the aircraft.

-----


Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
by Alan Miller

Official Account of 9/11: “Flawed”, “Absurd”, “Totally Inadequate”, “a Cover-up”

January 5, 2008 – Eight U.S. State Department veterans have severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and called for a new investigation. “There is no question in my mind, that there is enough evidence to justify a very comprehensive and hard hitting investigation of the kind we have not seen, with subpoenas, general questioning of people, releasing a lot of documents,” said Daniel Ellsberg, PhD, in a 2006 interview with Jack Blood.

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

12/22/07

PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org

Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org

UNITED 93 DATA PROVIDED BY US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUPPORT OBSERVED EVENTS
Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain United Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder information, consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder (FDR). The data provided by the NTSB contradict observed events in several significant ways:

The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support observations.
All Altitude data on the northern approach contradicts witnesses published by the New York Times.
Witness observations of approach path contradict northern approach as described by Popular Mechanics and the US Govt. Several witnesses observed the aircraft approaching from southeast over Indian Lake and from the south prior to witnessing explosion. Parts found in New Baltimore, 8 miles southeast of crater is a direct contradiction to the northern approach claimed by the US Govt.
Environmental Protection Agency reports no soil contamination of jet fuel after testing 5,000-6,000 yards of earth including 3 ground wells. Smoke plume photographed by a witness does not suggest a jet fuel rich explosion.
Impact angle according to Flight Data Recorder does not support an almost vertical impact as the govt story and crater suggests.

----


On their site you will see a wealth of information from sober sources that should make every American demand a thorough and independent investigation of the events of 9/11 and the massive inconsistencies in the account given by the US administration.

Anyone who wouldn't want this is probably worried about what it would uncover.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

bla bla bla, have we not been over this 1000 times, and you dont give up?

 

[9sublime]

To be honest shells, thats not a good attitude to have. If you believe something to be the truth, shouldn't you pursue it as far as you think is justified?

Sorry, back on topic.

Why is it so hard to accept that Muslim terrorists did it?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

They couldn't have.

Experienced pilots testify that pilots with no experience of those sort of planes or any airliner could not aim them that well.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

If you go to the site and read what pilots are saying, you might just learn something.

It will be something you don't want to learn but that doesn't make it untrue.

Or, you could stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la

 

[Not Amused]

If you go to the site and read what pilots are saying, you might just learn something.

It will be something you don't want to learn but that doesn't make it untrue.

Or, you could stick your fingers in your ears and go la la la

Dawkins.

I am going to say something now that might anger you, but I feel I have to say it all the same.

If you want people to really listen to your arguments, question aspects of the official explanation and take what you are trying to convey seriously, would it not be wise to keep a level head and just give people the evidence supporting another theory (if pertinent) without resorting to ridicule?

The problem is you see, doing so is the easiest way to close people off. I can see you feel passionately about the subject matter, but getting people to take your concerns seriously, also means getting people to take YOU seriously.

I do sympathise with you. My own very pertinent question regarding DNA control samples in another related thread has been all but dismissed, even though I really think it worthy of debate and discussion.

It has reached the stage in which even when questions are important, genuine, and merit assimilation and discussion, they are written off without a glance so to speak. This I think, is very often because of the way the person asking questions, reacts to any rebuttal then received (even if it is a bit rude).

I am guilty of over excitability, unfairness and a failure to see another point of view myself at times, as I am sure you will have noticed in the 'Pray For Palin' thread.

Keeping a clear head, refusing to be drawn into petty squabbling and also bearing in mind that the other person feels every bit as strongly as you do, (although from the opposite side of the fence) and may have valid points too, is surely more productive?

If you stick to facts, or compelling evidence, that merits the questioning of some aspects of the official 9/11 report and stick to debating those facts instead of being drawn into petty tit for tat and equal amounts of over excitability, perhaps you will gain the results you wish for.

Also forcing your belief systems onto others who think differently will not give you the results you desire. Supplying genuine and compelling evidence in a rational manner just might.

I hope you can accept my point of view over this in the manner in which it is given

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Of course

I am guilty as charged.

I shouldn't do it but it is very hard not to.

Good point well made

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Just one correction.

I do not seek to impose my views on others.

More to get them to stop and question the stories they have been fed that keep them in their place and which perpetuate huge injustice.

Religion is a great example and so is the US Government's account of 9/11.

 

[Not Amused]

Just one correction.

I do not seek to impose my views on others.

More to get them to stop and question the stories they have been fed that keep them in their place and which perpetuate huge injustice.

Religion is a great example and so is the US Government's account of 9/11.

In relation to your thread content.

I know a lot of people on the net always have a friend, or a friend of a friend who knew this, or did that etc.etc, but I really do have a colleague who until relatively recently was a pilot, who also flew 747's.

A short while after 9/11 I had a long conversation with him regarding the possibility of unexperienced pilots carrying out some of the maneuvers used by the terrorists.

Although he could not say outright that it would be impossible, he did it feel it extremely unlikely and stated that even he, a long experienced pilot could not possibly do so. He felt this quite categorically and because of this,he does have grave doubts himself as to the official explanation, based entirely on his experiences as a pilot.

Of course I am well aware that you only have my own word that the conversation I have highlighted above is true in its entirety and as such I cannot ever prove that the conversation was genuine.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

To be honest shells, thats not a good attitude to have. If you believe something to be the truth, shouldn't you pursue it as far as you think is justified?

Sorry, back on topic.

Why is it so hard to accept that Muslim terrorists did it?

there is like 20 threads of the same conspiracy Bull, and in I have yet to find anyone who thinks its a conspiracy that was ever willing to give a inch on anything, and they cant even come up with one conspiracy, theory have "proof" for 15 different ways it happened. Its worthless debate from what I have seen. They believe because they want to, not because of facts.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Go to the site and look at the wealth of video and documentary evidence.

The pilots concerned got the flight recorder from one of the planes and decoded it. They agree that it could not have happened as stated.

It is not mad sesnsationalism.

It is very sober stuff with sources quoted, mostly from respected US officers.

Here is an example of something very fishy

''by Matthew L. Wald,
The New York Times, May 6, 2004

WASHINGTON, May 6 -- At least six air traffic controllers who dealt with two of the hijacked airliners on Sept. 11, 2001, made a tape recording that same day describing the events, but the tape was destroyed by a supervisor without anyone making a transcript or even listening to it, the Transportation Department said in a report today.''

The site is just full of this kind of thing.

The US government should welcome the chance to kill off this suspicion.

If it has nothing to hide.

 

[9sublime]

My father is an airline pilot, and he says that with a little training, flying a plane to a specific point isn't the hardest thing.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

My dad's got a fleet of airliners and he says it is impossible to do what the terrorists did with such little experience

 

[Tripoli]

If you want to see what many experts including pilots and US state veterans think about 9/11 and the US administration's version go to

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

Here are a couple of examples, one after they got the flight recorder of one of the aircraft.

-----


Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
by Alan Miller

Official Account of 9/11: “Flawed”, “Absurd”, “Totally Inadequate”, “a Cover-up”

January 5, 2008 – Eight U.S. State Department veterans have severely criticized the official account of 9/11 and called for a new investigation. “There is no question in my mind, that there is enough evidence to justify a very comprehensive and hard hitting investigation of the kind we have not seen, with subpoenas, general questioning of people, releasing a lot of documents,” said Daniel Ellsberg, PhD, in a 2006 interview with Jack Blood.

PRESS RELEASE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

12/22/07

PILOTS FOR 9/11 TRUTH
www.pilotsfor911truth.org

Contact: Robert Balsamo
e-mail: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org

UNITED 93 DATA PROVIDED BY US GOVERNMENT DOES NOT SUPPORT OBSERVED EVENTS
Pilots for 9/11 Truth, an international organization of pilots and aviation professionals, petitioned the National Transportation and Safety Board (NTSB) via the Freedom of Information Act to obtain United Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder information, consisting of a Comma Separated Value (CSV) file and Flight Path Animation, allegedly derived from Flight 93 Flight Data Recorder (FDR). The data provided by the NTSB contradict observed events in several significant ways:

The NTSB Flight Path Animation approach path and altitude does not support observations.
All Altitude data on the northern approach contradicts witnesses published by the New York Times.
Witness observations of approach path contradict northern approach as described by Popular Mechanics and the US Govt. Several witnesses observed the aircraft approaching from southeast over Indian Lake and from the south prior to witnessing explosion. Parts found in New Baltimore, 8 miles southeast of crater is a direct contradiction to the northern approach claimed by the US Govt.
Environmental Protection Agency reports no soil contamination of jet fuel after testing 5,000-6,000 yards of earth including 3 ground wells. Smoke plume photographed by a witness does not suggest a jet fuel rich explosion.
Impact angle according to Flight Data Recorder does not support an almost vertical impact as the govt story and crater suggests.

----


On their site you will see a wealth of information from sober sources that should make every American demand a thorough and independent investigation of the events of 9/11 and the massive inconsistencies in the account given by the US administration.

Anyone who wouldn't want this is probably worried about what it would uncover.

How does the data not support observed events? Are you actually saying that all the observers made the same errors in observation?

 

[mark francis]

My dad's got a fleet of airliners and he says it is impossible to do what the terrorists did with such little experience

Someone's opinion is obviously wrong.