A question for the "so-called" pro-life people:

[Openmind]

When you bash President Obama and every pro-choice person for agreeing that late term abortions MUST remain legal to protect the life of the mother.

When you call YOUR PRESIDENT a MURDERER for signing the bill protecting women who have the terrible sadness of requesting a late term abortion,

Do you realize what the law banning every late term abortion would REALLY mean?

What do you think? Would YOU have let this woman DIE because of a law that YOU believe should be applied in the US?

How about the right of this woman to live?




By PETER GEOGHEGAN
Published on Thursday 15 November 2012 09:12

The death of a pregnant woman after she was refused an abortion has sparked an outcry in the Irish Republic.

Savita Halappanavar died of septicaemia a week after complaining of back pain on 
21 October at University Hospital, in Galway. At the hospital Mrs Halappanavar, 31, who was 17 weeks pregnant, was found to be miscarrying.

According to her husband, doctors refused to give her a medical termination over a three-day period before her death, because the foetal heartbeat was still present.

The Hindu couple were told: “This is a Catholic country.”


After the dead foetus was removed, Mrs Halappanavar was taken to intensive care, where she died on 28 October.

Two days later, an autopsy found she succumbed to septicaemia and E coli ESBL.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby,” her husband, Praveen Halappanavar, 34, said.

“When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked if they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat, we can’t do anything’.”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/...tors-1-2634257
Irish woman dies because she was refused an abortion.jpg

 

[Openmind]

No answer?

No one would like to take this chance to call President Obama (and myself. . .like our dear Pandora dare to do not that long ago) a "murderer?"

 

[Pandora]

When you bash President Obama and every pro-choice person for agreeing that late term abortions MUST remain legal to protect the life of the mother.

When you call YOUR PRESIDENT a MURDERER for signing the bill protecting women who have the terrible sadness of requesting a late term abortion,

Do you realize what the law banning every late term abortion would REALLY mean?

What do you think? Would YOU have let this woman DIE because of a law that YOU believe should be applied in the US?

How about the right of this woman to live?

http://www.******************/attachments/abortion/16305d1353031060-clump-cells-deserving-life-irish-woman-dies-because-she-refused-abortion.jpg




By PETER GEOGHEGAN
Published on Thursday 15 November 2012 09:12

The death of a pregnant woman after she was refused an abortion has sparked an outcry in the Irish Republic.

Savita Halappanavar died of septicaemia a week after complaining of back pain on 
21 October at University Hospital, in Galway. At the hospital Mrs Halappanavar, 31, who was 17 weeks pregnant, was found to be miscarrying.

According to her husband, doctors refused to give her a medical termination over a three-day period before her death, because the foetal heartbeat was still present.

The Hindu couple were told: “This is a Catholic country.”


After the dead foetus was removed, Mrs Halappanavar was taken to intensive care, where she died on 28 October.

Two days later, an autopsy found she succumbed to septicaemia and E coli ESBL.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby,” her husband, Praveen Halappanavar, 34, said.

“When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked if they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat, we can’t do anything’.”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/...tors-1-2634257
Irish woman dies because she was refused an abortion.jpg

A couple of important clips from your story:

A woman has died because Galway University Hospital refused to perform an abortion needed to prevent serious risk to her life.

Savita Halappanavar died of septicaemia in a Galway hospital three days after she began miscarrying.



This is a legitimate case for an abortion. I don’t know anyone who ever argued that women should die due to pregnancy. I am unsure why they didn’t help her when she came in. For 3 days they knew she was miscarrying. The baby can’t be saved and the woman can be harmed, at this point it’s obvious to me you would do something. The radio version of the story said she was almost 5 months pregnant. I do not understand why they didn’t deliver the baby right away and try to save it instead of letting it die inside its mother.



If a person is pregnant in the fallopian tubes you must abort, the baby and the mother will die if you don’t, it’s a cut and dry case. In this woman’s case they could have aborted or attempted delivery either one. Babies at that age have been known to survive. Not every time but it would be worth the effort. I would opt for the C section and try to help my baby live if it were me. It’s a rare case but that is no excuse, they should have done something for her.



Now this case is in no way similar to cases where women wanted to abort their babies through partial birth abortion, the babies lived through it and because there were no laws to be able to legally kill the child they were instead put in a dirty clothes closet alone to starve to death. That is sick, twisted and disgusting. Its sub human and it also happens to be what the current president voted “present” on in his state when it came up to a vote and also tried to block it from becoming a law that would have protected those babies who survive partial birth abortions.



So in this case, sadly the woman was not taken care of. But this case does not nullify all the thousands of babies who are aborted partially birthed or otherwise for the sole reason of…. They are not wanted..

 

[Pandora]

Actually that last part is wrong. Not the thousands killed for the sole reason of not being wanted. Its millions...

 

[Dr.Who]

So in this case, sadly the woman was not taken care of.

Right. The woman did not die because she did not get an abortion. She died because she did not receive any treatment at all. It is a strawman argument to say that pro lifers here would not want a woman to have her life saved. But more importantly she did not even need an abortion - she needed treatment which very well may have included an induced labor with every effort to save both her life and the life of her living human baby.

Why did she receive no treatment?

We can look at the Ministry for Health which sets a nationwide policy for all of Ireland (both the 80% public healthcare and the 20% private healthcare). Since the hospital said that they had no choice it is clear that there was a policy decision requiring what could or could not be done. This is the main problem with centralized government planning. One size fits all rules just don't work. Here in the US we have similar stories - like the man who was refused coverage for breast cancer because he was a man.

If Ireland had had a more diverse, less centralized system, without over-arching rules mandated from above the woman would have just gone to a different hospital in the crazy event (that's what this is) that one hospital made a bad decision.

 

[Dr.Who]

Oh one more thing. Abortion to save the live of the mother is legal in Ireland. The law specifically states that the life of the mother is equal to the life of the child. So whatever policy was standing this woman's way it was not a desire to see woman die rather than get treatment.

 

[cashmcall]

When you bash President Obama and every pro-choice person for agreeing that late term abortions MUST remain legal to protect the life of the mother.

When you call YOUR PRESIDENT a MURDERER for signing the bill protecting women who have the terrible sadness of requesting a late term abortion,

Do you realize what the law banning every late term abortion would REALLY mean?

What do you think? Would YOU have let this woman DIE because of a law that YOU believe should be applied in the US?

How about the right of this woman to live?

http://www.******************/attachments/abortion/16305d1353031060-clump-cells-deserving-life-irish-woman-dies-because-she-refused-abortion.jpg




By PETER GEOGHEGAN
Published on Thursday 15 November 2012 09:12

The death of a pregnant woman after she was refused an abortion has sparked an outcry in the Irish Republic.

Savita Halappanavar died of septicaemia a week after complaining of back pain on 
21 October at University Hospital, in Galway. At the hospital Mrs Halappanavar, 31, who was 17 weeks pregnant, was found to be miscarrying.

According to her husband, doctors refused to give her a medical termination over a three-day period before her death, because the foetal heartbeat was still present.

The Hindu couple were told: “This is a Catholic country.”


After the dead foetus was removed, Mrs Halappanavar was taken to intensive care, where she died on 28 October.

Two days later, an autopsy found she succumbed to septicaemia and E coli ESBL.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby,” her husband, Praveen Halappanavar, 34, said.

“When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked if they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat, we can’t do anything’.”
http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/...tors-1-2634257
Irish woman dies because she was refused an abortion.jpg

..Get your facts straight..The mothers life is protected in Ireland..more than one thing went wrong here!

 

[Pandora]

Right. The woman did not die because she did not get an abortion. She died because she did not receive any treatment at all. It is a strawman argument to say that pro lifers here would not want a woman to have her life saved. But more importantly she did not even need an abortion - she needed treatment which very well may have included an induced labor with every effort to save both her life and the life of her living human baby.

Why did she receive no treatment?

We can look at the Ministry for Health which sets a nationwide policy for all of Ireland (both the 80% public healthcare and the 20% private healthcare). Since the hospital said that they had no choice it is clear that there was a policy decision requiring what could or could not be done. This is the main problem with centralized government planning. One size fits all rules just don't work. Here in the US we have similar stories - like the man who was refused coverage for breast cancer because he was a man.

If Ireland had had a more diverse, less centralized system, without over-arching rules mandated from above the woman would have just gone to a different hospital in the crazy event (that's what this is) that one hospital made a bad decision.

I had not considered the government roll in this, thank you so much for another perspective.

 

[Gipper]

..Get your facts straight..The mothers life is protected in Ireland..more than one thing went wrong here!

Getting facts straight is not something many lefties are capable of doing.

However, they are very good at presenting strawman arguments...Hell....BO is an expert at using the Strawman argument...

 

[Openmind]

Thw oman's riht is so well protected that the woman was left to carry that dyingn nonviable 17 weeks fetus in her body for three days. By the time she wsa allowed to be delivered from the rotten flesh of that fetus, her major organs were shutting down due to septicemia. Im other word, her own body had been contaminated by the rotting fetus and she had began rotting herself.

The law in Ireland is just about what you hypocrite pro- life zombies would like to see as the law in this country, and why you call your President a murderer and call ME a murderer for not agreeing with your crazy priorities about life.

By the way, the young woman WANTED that child. She wnt to the hospital because she feared a miscariage due to severe back pain, and she suffered the pains of unprovoked labor for a whole day. It is only after thahose long hours of suffering, AND being told that she was having a miscariage and that the fetus was NOT VIABLE, that she begged them to actively abort the fetus that was already being rejected by her body.

Tey refused to do so because, in spite of their KNOWING that the baby was already rotting, they could still detect a heart beat. . .so they let the woman AND THE FETUS continue to suffer for two days, until it was too late for the mother also!

Get your facts straight!

Tis is the kind of ACCIDENTS that would be repeated over and over if this country listened to you fool, hypocritical fools with no respect for human life due to a misguided Obsession with fetuses.

I do hope this horrible case will bring the necessary change in the Irish law. But I also know that it will serve as a warning to all reasonable (if there is such a thing!) pro-life people.

Abortion in the Republic of Ireland
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Abortion in the Republic of Ireland is illegal unless it occurs as the result of a medical intervention performed to save the life of the mother.[1] However the availability of abortion services can be even more restricted in the absence of a readily available method of determining the circumstances in which an abortion might be lawfully obtained.[2]
Abortion is a controversial issue in Irish politics and five national referendums have been held on the topic in the last 30 years.
Contents [hide]
1 History
1.1 Death of Savita Halappanavar
2 Law
3 Opinion polling
4 Summary
5 See also
6 References
[edit]History

Life in Ireland
Culture[show]
Economy [show]
General[show]
Society[show]
Politics[show]
Policies[show]
v t e
At independence from the UK in 1922, the Offences against the Person Act 1861 remained in force, maintaining all abortions to be illegal and subject to punishment. One of Ireland's best-known abortionists, Mamie Cadden, was famously sentenced to death by hanging in 1957 when one of her patients died. In 1983 the Constitution of Ireland was amended to add the Eighth Amendment, which asserted that the unborn had an explicit right to life from the time of conception.
Practical problems arose in interpretation of the amendment. In 1992, a controversy arose over the issue of whether a suicidal minor who was pregnant from statutory rape could leave Ireland for an abortion that is lawful in another country (Attorney General v. X, known as the 'X Case'). Another referendum was held in 1992, in which two amendments were passed that established the 'right to travel' and the 'right to information'. A third proposal, the proposed Twelfth Amendment, would have defined when abortions could be considered legal, but was defeated.
A further referendum was held in 2002 on the Twenty-fifth Amendment, which would have removed the threat of suicide as a grounds for legal abortion, but it too failed to enact any regulatory changes.
[edit]Death of Savita Halappanavar
Ireland's abortion laws became the subject of international scrunity and protests after the death of Savita Halappanavar, a 31 year old dentist originally from Belgaum, India, at University College Hospital Galway [3][4][5] Halappanavar suffered a miscarriage when she was 17 weeks pregnant but an Irish hospital denied her an abortion because a fetal heartbeat was present, despite the fetus being declared nonviable. The fetal remains were eventually removed but too much time had passed. Halappanavar had suffered septicemia as a result of the miscarriage and her heart, kidneys, and liver had failed as a result of the blood poisoning.[6] She died on October 28, 2012. As of November 2012, the hospital is being subjected to several investigations.[3] On November 14, 2012, more than 2,000 people gathered to protest Ireland's abortion laws outside Leinster House in Savita's memory.[7] Back at India, the Ministry of External Affairs of India summoned the Irish ambassador over the issue.[8]

 

[PLC1]

Why did she receive no treatment?

.

Most likely because having aborted the dying fetus before it was actually dead could have resulted in life imprisonment of the doctor involved.

Draconian anti abortion laws can have unintended consequences, which is why the difficult and life changing decision of when a late term abortion is called for should not be left to government bureaucrats and second guessers.

I'd think any small government, liberty for the individual, conservative would understand that.

 

[Openmind]

Getting facts straight is not something many lefties are capable of doing.

However, they are very good at presenting strawman arguments...Hell....BO is an expert at using the Strawman argument...

Enough of your stupid attacks and non sense comments. US LEFTIES have posted more REAL FACTUAL INFORMATION than your whole bunch of lunatics put together!

YOU do not get your facts straight. . .it is too painful to realize how WRONG you are on most subject, so you avoid looking for REAL information and obviously, you can't post link to factual sources to support your arguments because. . .more often than not those factual sources would totally destroy your arguments!

By the way. . .how "straight" did the "Lefties" and most reasonable people get the FACTS of the election polls?
And how "factual" was your crazy notion of "unskewed polls" and "Rasmussen polls?"
And how close to the FACTS was that asshole who predicted a Romney landslide with 300 to 370 electoral vote?

Now. . .try to get your fact straight on that one!

 

[dogtowner]

why am reminded of the Black Knight scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail ?

 

[Gipper]

why am reminded of the Black Knight scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail ?

Good one!!! Love that scene...never thought it applied to libs, but it sure does.

 

[Dr.Who]

Most likely because having aborted the dying fetus before it was actually dead could have resulted in life imprisonment of the doctor involved.

Draconian anti abortion laws can have unintended consequences, which is why the difficult and life changing decision of when a late term abortion is called for should not be left to government bureaucrats and second guessers.

I'd think any small government, liberty for the individual, conservative would understand that.

She deserved treatment. Abortion was by no means the only or best option. Again this is not proof that protecting the rights to life of a living human baby harms mothers. The law after did clearly stated that her life was equally important as the baby's - it is very reasonable to protect two lives equally. This is an example of a over burdened bureaucratic and confused health care system failing the patient.