And, If You Do It Again, We're Going To Hold Our Breath Until We Turn Blue !!!

GBFan

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If we have less boats, less guys and less hardware for more money, then the taxpayers need to be asking why.

Vlad? You mean Putin? I'm not so sure he created the events so much as took advantage of them. Crimea was mostly Russian to start with, and so was a lot of the Ukrane.

I'm also not sure the US could have done much to stop him other than what was done without risking all out war with Russia.

But you do have a point that Putin doesn't believe that the US would risk war, and he's probably right.

If you don't show that you are willing to swing your big stick, you have no stick at all - just a piece of wood.
 
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dogtowner

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If we have less boats, less guys and less hardware for more money, then the taxpayers need to be asking why.

Vlad? You mean Putin? I'm not so sure he created the events so much as took advantage of them. Crimea was mostly Russian to start with, and so was a lot of the Ukrane.

I'm also not sure the US could have done much to stop him other than what was done without risking all out war with Russia.

But you do have a point that Putin doesn't believe that the US would risk war, and he's probably right.
Well we should always ask why
what benefit does Crimera/ ukrain get from returning to the cccp ?,Thats putin's doing as if benefits Russia greatly.
Yeah we'll do nothing.
 

PLC1

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Well we should always ask why
what benefit does Crimera/ ukrain get from returning to the cccp ?,Thats putin's doing as if benefits Russia greatly.
Yeah we'll do nothing.
We most likely will do nothing, given the current state of leadership in Washington.

Now, were we to have a Kennedy in the WH, and a Congress that actually wasn't an invertebrate species, we'd do what was done during the Cuban Missile crisis. We'd play Putin's game of bluff and threat and make him back down. We can bluff an threat with the best of them, and still have the most powerful military in the world.

All the while, understanding that an all out war between the US and Russia is not an option.

But, that won't happen. Obama is no Kennedy, and Congress is dysfunctional.
 

dogtowner

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We most likely will do nothing, given the current state of leadership in Washington.

Now, were we to have a Kennedy in the WH, and a Congress that actually wasn't an invertebrate species, we'd do what was done during the Cuban Missile crisis. We'd play Putin's game of bluff and threat and make him back down. We can bluff an threat with the best of them, and still have the most powerful military in the world.

All the while, understanding that an all out war between the US and Russia is not an option.

But, that won't happen. Obama is no Kennedy, and Congress is dysfunctional.
Kennedy backed Nikita down because he knew jfk would not pull outbif the chicken game. Congressnus immaterial.
 

PLC1

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Kennedy backed Nikita down because he knew jfk would not pull outbif the chicken game. Congressnus immaterial.
Would JFK have backed down short of starting a nuclear war?

I've often wondered.

Currently, Congress has made itself immaterial.
 

PLC1

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More on Russia and the results of its military adventures:

MOSCOW, July 31 (RIA Novosti) – Stiffer economic penalties on the Russian economy could push it into an early recession by the turn of the year, a senior Russian lawmaker warned Thursday.

“The sanctions are very likely to cause a slump in GDP growth, with a recession looming even before the end of the year,” First Deputy Chairman of Russia’s Federation Council Economic Policy Committee Yuri Shamkov told RIA Novosti.

The situation in Ukraine could resolve itself absent any effective leadership in Washington. It was economic factors that brought down the Soviet Union in the first place, after all.
 

GBFan

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More on Russia and the results of its military adventures:



The situation in Ukraine could resolve itself absent any effective leadership in Washington. It was economic factors that brought down the Soviet Union in the first place, after all.

... which, of course, is like saying that the situation between Great Britain and the colonies could resolve itself absent any actions by France.

Your position is an excuse ... an excuse to abdicate your responsibility to your fellow man.

But then, if you're looking for an excuse, that one is as good as any.
 

PLC1

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... which, of course, is like saying that the situation between Great Britain and the colonies could resolve itself absent any actions by France.

Your position is an excuse ... an excuse to abdicate your responsibility to your fellow man.

But then, if you're looking for an excuse, that one is as good as any.
You think I'm personally responsible for the situation in the Ukraine?

It's an observation, not an excuse, and the situation in the colonies could easily have resolved itself the same way it did in Canada.
 

GBFan

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You think I'm personally responsible for the situation in the Ukraine?

It's an observation, not an excuse, and the situation in the colonies could easily have resolved itself the same way it did in Canada.

I think you have an inherent responsibility to support SOMEBODY in the Ukraine ... but you choose to hide from it.
 

Cruella

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Hmmm...what could be on Putin's mind?

He's gobbled up part of Georgia and the Ukraine, who do you think is next after Kiev falls?

Moldova could be a little snack before attempting to take on Slovakia or Poland.
 
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GBFan

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Why is that ? Ukraine withdrew its apolication to BATO (a mive the population support). Now one could choose to support a side but must ? Nit seeing it.

Ask yourself WHY they withdrew their application to NATO. When the Ukraine applied, Russia objected loudly and long about how NATO was trying to encircle them, and confront them on their eastern border - if you remember, if all requests for application to NATO had been accepted, that whole border would have been NATO members, and the Russians would have been restricted by the presence of the US, etc. There was discussions about forward placement of missile systems, troops, and even a permanent US military base in the Ukraine.

In order to alleviate the 'crisis', the current administration agreed to withdraw the missile systems from Poland, forgo putting a military base in the immediate area. The Ukraine received our implicit acknowledgement that we would assist them to defend their homeland (in return for withdrawing their NATO application) in the event of Soviet aggression. The EU signed a pact with the Ukraine, backed by the US, to provide economic and military support.

So - we promised them support, and they are watching their country being carved up and we're doing nothing. And, you wonder why our word isn't good any more on the national stage?

We told them we would be there ... and we have a responsibility to keep our word. Nothing changes that. There are NO excuses good enough to justify compromising our honor.

Now - to the larger issue.

We have an inherent responsibility to support those peoples who want to have a self-determined government. I know that grates on our liberal doves and offends our cowardly government administration. But, simply, we were given a great gift ... never before had a people been given a uniquely positioned continent, a plethora of resources, a standard of government, and unalienable rights for self determination.

But nothing in this world is free ... with that great gift came a responsibility - the responsibility to help others to attain the level of productivity and freedom we have enjoyed. For 200 years, we lived up to that ideal - we liberated, and then we left. We helped, and then we left. We bled, we died, we gave, and we left. Never in the history of mankind had so many died to attain freedom, not for themselves, but for others.

Today, we talk the talk, but we aren't willing to walk the walk ... we make up all kinds of lame ass excuses ---- it's not our war, it's not our job, we shouldn't be nation building, if they want it bad enough, let them get it --- as if it's some kind of game. So, we sit comfortably, living off the fruits of our ancestor's sacrifices, conveniently ignoring our responsibility to our fellow man, ignoring the incursion of evil, secretly laughing at brave revolutionists who give their lives trying to get the freedoms we so blithely enjoy.

Frankly, we have become a nation of cowards ... and don't deserve what we have ... but we needn't worry ... we won't have it long.
 
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