Another freedom gone

Dr.Who

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
6,776
Location
Horse Country
Here is an article showing one more freedom (well several) that are going away:

"I'm a registered Democrat living in New York City, and I buy my own health insurance. But now, having seen the health-care reform bill that passed the House, I'm preparing for life without health insurance. And unless I'm the only person covered under the Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield "Tradition Plus" plan, a lot of other people will end up just like me, uninsured.

I will gain one thing, though—an annual fine for losing my insurance. The exact amount of that fine isn't clear yet, but so far it looks like I'll be paying about the same amount—$2,000 a year—for having no insurance as I do now for having it.

Let's get specific. What is the "Tradition Plus" plan that I've purchased each year since moving to New York in 2006? It's a hospitalization plan. If an accident or illness puts me in the hospital, all my hospital expenses are covered. Why is it so affordable? Because it covers only hospital expenses. Any fees from a physician who is not a hospital employee (i.e., who bills the patient privately) I would pay out of pocket.

Before I come to the big question—why will I lose this insurance plan if anything like the House bill becomes law?—I want to address a smaller one. Why do I choose the Empire "Tradition Plus" plan instead of a comprehensive HMO-type plan that covers physician fees, prescriptions, etc.? Because, unlike other states, New York already mandates two things that the current federal health-care reform will mandate. The first mandate prohibits insurers from denying coverage because of a pre-existing medical condition. The second mandate prohibits insurers from denying coverage, or determining prices, based on age. The result is that HMO plans in the state are now very expensive. The price of Empire's basic, least expensive HMO plan is more than $13,000 a year for an individual, more than $26,000 a year for a married couple, and more than $39,000 a year for a family with children. Empire is a reputable firm and those prices are typical of what's available to New York City residents. Upstate New Yorkers pay slightly less.

The only less expensive alternative is the "Tradition Plus" plan. That's why I buy it. The money I save by not buying the basic HMO plan—roughly $11,000 a year—I can draw on to pay for any doctor visits I choose to make.

The House health-care reform bill hinges on what it calls a "qualified" health-care plan. Individuals will be required by law either to buy a plan that meets the criteria of a qualified health-care plan or pay a fine. What are those criteria? They're the basic components of a comprehensive HMO-type plan, which means that Empire's "Tradition Plus" will not qualify because it covers only hospital costs. In other words, if President Obama signs into law the kind of health-care reform bill that is currently on the table, I will have only two choices: buy an expensive qualified plan or pay a fine for being uninsured.

And there is nothing in any of the pending health-care legislation that will make the cost of a qualified plan significantly lower than it is in New York now. On the contrary, once the health-insurance mandates that already exist in New York become the law of the land, insurance premiums everywhere else will rise as they did here. What I can't figure out is why Congress would want to prohibit someone like me from keeping an affordable hospitalization plan. It works for me and it works for the hospital. I guess that's the problem. It's simple, it's easy to understand, and it works.

I realize that we who buy our own health insurance are a fairly small percentage of the market, but there are millions of us. Millions more may have an employer-based plan today, but not tomorrow. So, as I prepare for the winter of my disinsurance, at least I'm not alone. "

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574527493169603118.html
 
Werbung:

Greco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
634
The premise is flawed. The statements unsubstantiated. The bill that will come out of combining Congress and the Senate hasn't even been written yet, but the doom and gloom crowd is already gathering. It's an argument against something that doesn't yet exist.
 

always

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
1,143
The premise is flawed. The statements unsubstantiated. The bill that will come out of combining Congress and the Senate hasn't even been written yet, but the doom and gloom crowd is already gathering. It's an argument against something that doesn't yet exist.

SAME OLD "RADICAL LIBERAL" answer when they have no honest answer!

"YOU LIE"!!! and so does your obama! AMERICA is DYING and obama is LYING!!
 

Greco

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
634
There are no answers to made up fiction issues. If you weren't such a dim bulb you'd realize that and not even raise the issue, making yourself once again, come across as a fool.

You're such a twit most of your posts get deleted because they're just plain stupid. The only value you provide to this forum is to showcase the dumbing down of your party. You do that quite well.
 

dahermit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,916
Here is an article showing one more freedom (well several) that are going away:

"I'm a registered Democrat living in New York City, and I buy my own health insurance. But now, having seen the health-care reform bill that passed the House, I'm preparing for life without health insurance. And unless I'm the only person covered under the Empire Blue Cross/Blue Shield "Tradition Plus" plan, a lot of other people will end up just like me, uninsured.

So what is your problem? Just go to the emergency room for your health care, just like the other uninsured (according to you), have been doing right along. With the emergency room available, why would you need any health insurance? Name one person who has ever been turned away from the emergency room without health care.
 

Dr.Who

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
6,776
Location
Horse Country
So what is your problem? Just go to the emergency room for your health care, just like the other uninsured (according to you), have been doing right along. With the emergency room available, why would you need any health insurance? Name one person who has ever been turned away from the emergency room without health care.

I most certainly could go the ER for care. I could even pay cash for it until something/if something really big happened.

But I understand that insurance does not provide care (doctors do) it provides a means of not losing all my assets if I get sick. And I prefer to keep my house so I buy insurance.

If I were poor and owned no house then I would not need insurance.
 

dahermit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,916
I most certainly could go the ER for care. I could even pay cash for it until something/if something really big happened.
Do what the poor do when "...something really big happened..."


But I understand that insurance does not provide care (doctors do) it provides a means of not losing all my assets if I get sick. And I prefer to keep my house so I buy insurance.
But the poor (extreme poor, not newly unemployed with Nike's, gold chains, etc.) having no disposable income to buy insurance do what, when something "big" happens?


If I were poor and owned no house then I would not need insurance.
Until something "big" happens? Then what?
Can you provide the name of one ER that provides continuing heath care for diabetes, tuberculosis, heart disease (by pass, valve replacement), cancer chemotherapy, radiology, Cataract surgery, any other non-emergency but critical surgery? Or, are all these performed in rare-to-mythical "free clinics"?
 

Dr.Who

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
6,776
Location
Horse Country
Do what the poor do when "...something really big happened..."


But the poor (extreme poor, not newly unemployed with Nike's, gold chains, etc.) having no disposable income to buy insurance do what, when something "big" happens?


Until something "big" happens? Then what?
Can you provide the name of one ER that provides continuing heath care for diabetes, tuberculosis, heart disease (by pass, valve replacement), cancer chemotherapy, radiology, Cataract surgery, any other non-emergency but critical surgery? Or, are all these performed in rare-to-mythical "free clinics"?

Those conditions re covered by public aid right? If not then the gov has created a pretty sucky system (but I know that they are covered). Why would they go to the ER when they can go see the doctors who handle that kind of thing?
 

GenSeneca

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2008
Messages
6,245
Location
={CaLiCo}= HQ
But the poor (extreme poor, not newly unemployed with Nike's, gold chains, etc.) having no disposable income to buy insurance do what, when something "big" happens?

Let me get this straight... the poor can't afford to buy insurance, so you think its a good idea to pass a HC bill that mandates they buy insurance which they can't afford and if they don't buy the insurance they can't afford, they get fined... or if they can't pay, put in jail.

Which brings me to the next part of your diatribe:

Can you provide the name of one ER that provides continuing heath care for diabetes, tuberculosis, heart disease (by pass, valve replacement), cancer chemotherapy, radiology, Cataract surgery, any other non-emergency but critical surgery? Or, are all these performed in rare-to-mythical "free clinics"?
Yes I can name such a facility, Prison. I guess since tossing people who can't affor insurance in jail is a good idea from the Progressive point of view, at least then they will get the medical care you're so concerned they're not receiving with their freedom.
 

Dr.Who

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
6,776
Location
Horse Country
Let me get this straight... the poor can't afford to buy insurance, so you think its a good idea to pass a HC bill that mandates they buy insurance which they can't afford and if they don't buy the insurance they can't afford, they get fined... or if they can't pay, put in jail.

well, the bill actually gives poor people a credit to use to buy insurance.

But what would happen is that as poor people try to climb out of poverty (as many do) they will be penalized for hard work. The result will be declines in the amount of poor people who better their situation in life.
 

dahermit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,916
Let me get this straight... the poor can't afford to buy insurance, so you think its a good idea to pass a HC bill that mandates they buy insurance which they can't afford and if they don't buy the insurance they can't afford, they get fined... or if they can't pay, put in jail.
No, it not a good idea. A "good idea" would be socialized heath care where all people are covered and there are no insurance companies (parasites who inflate the cost of health care), no deductibles, no co-pays.

Which brings me to the next part of your diatribe:


Yes I can name such a facility, Prison. I guess since tossing people who can't affor insurance in jail is a good idea from the Progressive point of view, at least then they will get the medical care you're so concerned they're not receiving with their freedom.
See above.
 

dahermit

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
1,916
well, the bill actually gives poor people a credit to use to buy insurance.

But what would happen is that as poor people try to climb out of poverty (as many do) they will be penalized for hard work. The result will be declines in the amount of poor people who better their situation in life.

Which is no different than the graduated income tax we now have. Moving into a higher tax bracket has not seemed to have stopped the wealthy from making more money and becoming ever richer compared to the average worker.
 

ASPCA4EVER

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
2,555
Location
Land of the JAYHAWKS-ROCK CHOCK Jayhawk, KU
I would actuly like to see all those people crying about "freedom" lose there health care for a bit....see how free so many in the US are with no coverage.
Oh, no not I...the very thought of all that 'screeching MONKEY' sounds would just be so heinous as to shatter many a window within the area!!!

We just keep chasing this conversation around & around & around...them that have don't quite understand that the have nots drain our resources and cost each and every one of us by: inflated premiums, more denied benefits, more rider policies being written, lower maximum cash outlay expenses...etc., etc., etc.,...

The far right leaning nut jobs just "THINK" that they are NOT going to be hit/impacted by the masses with no insurance...they live in a BUBBLE of their own delusions ;)
 
Werbung:

top gun

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
4,940
Location
Ohio, USA
I would actuly like to see all those people crying about "freedom" lose there health care for a bit....see how free so many in the US are with no coverage.

And this whole "it's about freedom thing" is getting very tedious. Especially the whole part about younger and any other presumably healthier people having to buy health insurance. If they think they can get by without it... and they're forced to buy it... then that's taking away their freedom.

Well folks it's not and I'll tell ya why. It's because their cost when they do need healthcare fall on everyone like me that has healthcare. The first $1000 every single person with healthcare pays every year goes to guess what... indigent care.

And this whole "freedom" thing with insurance isn't a new false spin at all. I remember clear as a bell doing it myself with guess what... car insurance.

I grew up right in that gap before they made it virtually impossible to drive without car insurance. And I remember arguing with my mother... I DON'T NEED IT! I CAN'T AFFORD IT! I'M NOT GONNA GET IN A WRECK!

Of course that was "stupid kid thinking" and I was a major potential liability and burden to every other driver on the road. And eventually I was in a major car crash. Almost killed me and ended my basketball career in college.

I eventually recovered and luckily the wreck was the other persons fault running a red light and they had insurance. But it could have just as easily been the other way around and I knew it.

Mom was right...

Having to have insurance so others don't have to pick up your tab is not loosing freedom.

It's called BEING RESPONSIBLE.
 
Top