Canada health care lottery

[Libsmasher]

From the current issue of NR:

The left wing of the Democratic party still holds up Canada’s “single payer” — that is, entirely government-financed — health-care system as a model. The latest innovation of that system: Overextended doctors are deciding which patients will get treated by drawing names out of a hat. They are rationing health care, in other words, by lottery. Dr. Ken Runciman of Ontario told Canada’s National Post that he had to cut his workload and couldn’t find a better method. “It was just my way of trying to minimize the bias . . . rather than going through the list and saying ‘I don’t like you, and I don’t like you.’” Dr. Runciman has cut 100 patients from his practice, while another doctor in Newfoundland has cut 500 patients. All in all, too few Canadian doctors means that approximately 5 million Canadians are now without family care. What was that about “universal coverage”?

Universal health care, with a government in charge, is always a false claim, never a reality.

 

[Pandora]

From the current issue of NR:



Universal health care, with a government in charge, is always a false claim, never a reality.

Well at least they called it Universal instead of Free.. So some truth is starting to get out

I wonder if people expect the doctors to stay in business? Most are in it for the money, why would they stay in the field and why would others pay the prices it takes to become a doctor for some flat fee. And I wonder if the plan to cover the Nation includes specialty doctors. I can not picture anyone paying the kind of money it takes to become one, if the amount they can earn is limited. and I am sure the govenrment wont pay them what they have been getting.

 

[Libsmasher]

Well at least they called it Universal instead of Free.. So some truth is starting to get out

I wonder if people expect the doctors to stay in business? Most are in it for the money, why would they stay in the field and why would others pay the prices it takes to become a doctor for some flat fee. And I wonder if the plan to cover the Nation includes specialty doctors. I can not picture anyone paying the kind of money it takes to become one, if the amount they can earn is limited. and I am sure the govenrment wont pay them what they have been getting.

The specialists have waiting lists in canada and the UK that stretch for in some case years - that's why the "medical tourism" has emerged - people would rather take their chances in places like India, than die waiting in the "universal health care" queue.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

you mean like how we have to get our drugs and go to candada to get care?


News falsh , we are not canada,...and its not teh same as Canadas system

its like saying after one nation tried a form of Demcracy that failed....well screw it, lets never try again we cant make it any better.

Seems to me the right things that its just impossible to have a system that lets evryone have access and do it right...its just impossible...we can put a man on the moon but health care for kids? Noooo

what is the republican plan? Screw you and go die? That often seems to be close to many on the rights idea of a health care system. I have money you dont , so I am better then you and you can go die in the gutter.

I want to see one Republican come up with a plan that covers evryone...

 

[Pandora]

The specialists have waiting lists in canada and the UK that stretch for in some case years - that's why the "medical tourism" has emerged - people would rather take their chances in places like India, than die waiting in the "universal health care" queue.

I personally dont go to the doctor, I have health care that I never use, I wish I could get my boss to give me the 900 dollars a month instead of waste it on nothing.

But I think a person would be pretty dumb to pay the money it takes to be a doctor, or a specialist if they are not going to be able to make as much money as they want. I would think the standards would have to be lowered or we will have to accept that there will be far fewer doctors if there were some "Free" health care.

 

[top gun]

you mean like how we have to get our drugs and go to candada to get care?


News falsh , we are not canada,...and its not teh same as Canadas system

its like saying after one nation tried a form of Demcracy that failed....well screw it, lets never try again we cant make it any better.

Seems to me the right things that its just impossible to have a system that lets evryone have access and do it right...its just impossible...we can put a man on the moon but health care for kids? Noooo

what is the republican plan? Screw you and go die? That often seems to be close to many on the rights idea of a health care system. I have money you dont , so I am better then you and you can go die in the gutter.

I want to see one Republican come up with a plan that covers evryone...

I don't know if you've seen it but there's a great commercial running here in Ohio by "Divided we fail". It has actual families that had health insurance that still had to file bankruptcy because of all that was not covered... and they HAD health insurance.

If I remember correctly I believe they said 1.8 million people per year are put into this fix.

You know if they'd even come up with a National plan that just covered catastrophic illness and people still purchased or were offered coverage thru work for regular basic healthcare it would be a vast improvement.

 

[Dr.Who]

I want to see one Republican come up with a plan that covers evryone...

We already have a plan in place that covers everyone. Every single person in this country can go into any ER and get treatment with no chance of being turned away because they have medicaid. The other people, the ones who earn more, have to pay but they still get health care.

In fact the only way not to get health care is to purposively avoid it. And even then the government will often force people to get shots or transfusions or what have you.

What about people who are too poor to afford health insurance but don't qualify for medicaid? These people fall into the category of those who are avoiding healthcare. They could qualify but they choose not to.

 

[Pandora]

Why cant any group of Americans who want to be covered do a group program like my work does and like many groups do. The bigger the group the bigger the discount.

Government is NOT the answer to everything

 

[Libsmasher]

you mean like how we have to get our drugs and go to candada to get care?

Americans don't go to canada to get care, it's just the opposite - where did you get that crap? Canadians know that when they get desperate and they need the operation NOW, there's only one thing to do - head south.

What some people will do is go there for cheap drugs. The drugs are generic copies of US meds made in India, which doesn't recognize our patents. So in otherwords, the cheap canadian meds represent parasitism of the canadian rationing system off the US health system.

 

[Libsmasher]

I don't know if you've seen it but there's a great commercial running here in Ohio by "Divided we fail". It has actual families that had health insurance that still had to file bankruptcy because of all that was not covered... and they HAD health insurance.

Oooooooooo - "some families" had to declare bankruptcy in ohio.

Well, that settles it for me! Gimme some of that socialized med rationing!!!

 

[Shadow]

I want to see one Republican come up with a plan that covers evryone...

Keep on dreamin'. Won't happen. The repugs are NOT interested in the nations' health . THe only pop whos health matters is the US military. It HAS to be fit to die in the US wars.

IF the US system is so FANTASTIC.........whey are there so many buying drugs (for eg) from Canada.?? Particularly when they claim that the US drugs are so "superior". Seems that if one is going to use the system for their own advantage, they had better stop bashing it. I can be seen as hypocritical./ or juvenile. (not that this bothers many )

 

[Shadow]

You know if they'd even come up with a National plan that just covered catastrophic illness and people still purchased or were offered coverage thru work for regular basic healthcare it would be a vast improvement.

absolutely !! and it can't be all that hard to do. Just assemble the best of many good systems in the world, and design it to fit with the US needs etc. ........

 

[Dr.Who]

Why cant any group of Americans who want to be covered do a group program like my work does and like many groups do. The bigger the group the bigger the discount.

Government is NOT the answer to everything

Because they are still not willing to pay the costs no matter how discounted.

Last week my two kids had their tonsils out. The bill (paid for by my insurance company) was over $5000 each. This year I paid less in premiums. So should I complain about my premiums? Of course not! I am saving money compared to paying outright. But there have been other years in which I did not use any medical services amounting to much at all so I "lost" money. The problem is that there are people who do not consider what it costs to get what they are getting for their premiums. They just see that they are paying almost a thousand dollars a month and they complain. They completely forget that insurance covers you not primarily for the regular expenses but for the unforeseen expenses. If something catastrophic should happen I can count on my insurance policy up to the limits of my policy. I would never be able to cover that kind of expense outright.

And to answer your question (though we all know that you know the answer and were just making a point) - they can. There are all sorts of groups that offer group policies to members and there is nothing to stop people from forming such a group if one does not exist to fit their particular needs.

I used to work with deaf people. I don't know why but long time ago deaf people had trouble getting health insurance. So they formed an organization called the National Fraternal Society of the Deaf and it's sole purpose was to provide insurance to deaf people.
http://www.altavista.com/web/result...+fraternal+society+deaf+insurance&kgs=1&kls=0

So why do the socialists all want universal health insurance? Not because there are not options, but because this option moves our country in the direction of more socialism.

 

[Shadow]

So why do the socialists all want universal health insurance? Not because there are not options, but because this option moves our country in the direction of more socialism.

How realistic is that concern???

 

[Pandora]

Because they are still not willing to pay the costs no matter how discounted.

Last week my two kids had their tonsils out. The bill (paid for by my insurance company) was over $5000 each. This year I paid less in premiums. So should I complain about my premiums? Of course not! I am saving money compared to paying outright. But there have been other years in which I did not use any medical services amounting to much at all so I "lost" money. The problem is that there are people who do not consider what it costs to get what they are getting for their premiums. They just see that they are paying almost a thousand dollars a month and they complain. They completely forget that insurance covers you not primarily for the regular expenses but for the unforeseen expenses. If something catastrophic should happen I can count on my insurance policy up to the limits of my policy. I would never be able to cover that kind of expense outright.

And to answer your question (though we all know that you know the answer and were just making a point) - they can. There are all sorts of groups that offer group policies to members and there is nothing to stop people from forming such a group if one does not exist to fit their particular needs.

I used to work with deaf people. I don't know why but long time ago deaf people had trouble getting health insurance. So they formed an organization called the National Fraternal Society of the Deaf and it's sole purpose was to provide insurance to deaf people.
http://www.altavista.com/web/result...+fraternal+society+deaf+insurance&kgs=1&kls=0

So why do the socialists all want universal health insurance? Not because there are not options, but because this option moves our country in the direction of more socialism.

Well I know we have a whole lot of people out there like your talking about, but there are some Americans in the cracks. not poor enough for the free medical that you get if your an ultra lazy bum on welfair, but also dont make enough to buy insurance outright and dont work for a company that offers it.

so there is really a group who would buy it if they could, they do work they do try. those people could network with others like them.

for example, I did foster care for 3 kids, lots of parents couldnt afford healthcare because they did fostecare for their job, so they networked with other foster moms and dads and now you can buy into it for pretty cheap.

I didnt because I did foster and also did my job that gives me health care that i do not want, i want the freaking 900 bucks.


but other people can do the same as the foster familys did, the only thing stoping you is YOU. people keep hearing how hopeless things are, they dont even bother trying. I am so sick of what babies the people are becoming, wha wha when is the government going to come change my diaper.