Diplomats spying

Stalin

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Remember how the Soviet Government was "bad" because their diplomats engaged in spying and "ours" didn't?

Comrade Stalin
 
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Remember how the Soviet Government was "bad" because their diplomats engaged in spying and "ours" didn't?

Comrade Stalin

I don't remember that because it is not true like everything an idolater of histories greatest mass murderer thinks.

The US has always engaged in spying which is a good thing. Particularly spying on your most beloved USSR (the worst nation to ever exist in world history thanks to the leadership of your idol)...

Of course, the US did not spy on the USSR when they were an allies during WWII, but the filthy sub-human Stalin had many spies throughout the US during the war and had completely infiltrated the FDR and Truman administrations.

Are the Rosenbergs, Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White, etc......heroes of yours?
 
The US has always engaged in spying which is a good thing.

That is not what the administration is saying

"...White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Wednesday that Assange's statements "are both ridiculous and absurd." Clinton, he said, has done nothing wrong, and U.S. diplomats do not engage in spying. He spoke in an interview on NBC's "Today" show.

State Department officials said Tuesday that secret instructions to American diplomats to gather sensitive personal information about foreign leaders originated from the U.S. intelligence community but did not require diplomats to spy. Requests for DNA and biometric data on foreign officials were contained in leaked classified cables published by WikiLeaks.

"Secretary Clinton is doing a great job," Gibbs said. "The president has great confidence in and admires the work that Secretary Clinton has done..."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wikileaks_white_house

Comrade Stalin
 
That is not what the administration is saying

"...White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Wednesday that Assange's statements "are both ridiculous and absurd." Clinton, he said, has done nothing wrong, and U.S. diplomats do not engage in spying. He spoke in an interview on NBC's "Today" show.

State Department officials said Tuesday that secret instructions to American diplomats to gather sensitive personal information about foreign leaders originated from the U.S. intelligence community but did not require diplomats to spy. Requests for DNA and biometric data on foreign officials were contained in leaked classified cables published by WikiLeaks.

"Secretary Clinton is doing a great job," Gibbs said. "The president has great confidence in and admires the work that Secretary Clinton has done..."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_wikileaks_white_house

Comrade Stalin

No country is ever going to say that their diplomats are spying. If they do the access of diplomats etc is going to limited by whatever country they are in.
 
Alger Hiss

who was never convicted of espionage or proven to be a communist.

He was convicted, in an atmosphere of political hysteria, of perjury by someone who got immunity and changed his story.

The whole circus was ring-led by the egregious Richard Nixon, who should have been convicted of a whole raft of crimes, but wasn't, because like the
terrorist criminals who infested the Reagan administration, he was pardoned by the new guy...

A very bad example.

Facts, not opinions is what wins arguments.

Comrade Stalain
 
who was never convicted of espionage or proven to be a communist.

He was convicted, in an atmosphere of political hysteria, of perjury by someone who got immunity and changed his story.

The whole circus was ring-led by the egregious Richard Nixon, who should have been convicted of a whole raft of crimes, but wasn't, because like the
terrorist criminals who infested the Reagan administration, he was pardoned by the new guy...

A very bad example.

Facts, not opinions is what wins arguments.

Comrade Stalain

You would think someone using the name of the world's worst mass murderer and Hitler's blood brother would know something about Soviet spying. Guess not.

Hiss was a spy for Stalin just like you would be if your idol were still living. Hiss was not charged with espionage because the statute of limitation had run out NOT because he wasn't guilty. He was named by Whitaker Chambers and he was named in the Venona Papers (ever heard of them?). He was 100% guilty and should have been executed like your filthy traitorous verminous friends the Rosenbergs.

You need to educate yourself before spouting off stupid sh*t. But, being a commie the truth and you do not know each other.

Here is an excellent book on Venona. For those interested in the truth, I highly recommend it...
The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America's Traitors by Herbert Romerstein, Eric Breindel
Posted January 5, 2001, 11:29 AM EST: ''Venona'' is the code word given to the secret taping of Soviet wire communications between their diplomatic sites in the U.S. and Moscow during WWII. You may recall all those rantings by extreme right-wing nuts about commies stealing atomic secrets and infesting our State Department, well it turns out Whitaker Chambers and Elizabeth Bentley were right after all. Harry Hopkins, Alger Hiss, Harry Dexter White and others in government WERE agents of the Soviet Union and while they influenced government policy to favor the Soviets the Oppenheimer brothers, the Rosenbergs and others involved in American research efforts sold out their country and made the world a much more dangerous place by giving the Soviets technology that resulted in their getting the Atom bomb at least 5-6 years before they could have otherwise developed it. In ''The Venona Secrets: Exposing Soviet Espionage and America's Traitors'' the authors cross-reference previously known facts from the investigations of the 40s and 50s with Soviet files opened since the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 1990s and the Venona transmissions just released for the first time in 1995 for a compelling look at a chapter in American history almost completely unknown by the general public and one given little credence in current high school history texts.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/The-Venona-Secrets/Herbert-Romerstein/e/9780895262752
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Alger_Hiss
 
Hiss was convicted on fabricated evidence

"...At both trials, FBI typewriter experts testified that the Baltimore documents in Chambers's possession matched samples of typing done in the 1930s by Priscilla Hiss on the Hisses' home typewriter, a Woodstock brand. As early as December, 1948 the chief investigator for the Hiss defense, Horace W. Schmahl, set off a race to find Hiss's typewriter.[29] The FBI, with vastly superior resources was also searching for the typewriter, which the Hiss family had discarded some years earlier. Nevertheless, Schmahl, was able to track it down first, and the Hiss defense introduced with the intention of showing that its type face would not be a match for that on the FBI's documents. Surprisingly, the typefaces proved to be an excellent match and seemed to confirm the FBI's evidence.

After Hiss had gone to prison, his lawyer, Chester T. Lane, acting on a tip he had received from someone who had worked with Schmahl, that Hiss might have been framed, filed a motion in January 1952 for a new trial.[30] Lane sought to show that (1) forgery by typewriter was feasible and (2) such forgery had occurred in the Hiss case. Unaware that the feasibility of such forgeries had already been established throughout the War by the military intelligence services which engaged in such practices, the Hiss defense sought to establish feasibility directly by hiring a civilian typewriter expert, Martin Tytell, to create a typewriter that would be indistinguishable from the one the Hisses owned. Tytell spent two years creating a facsimile Woodstock typewriter whose print characteristics would match the peculiarities of the Hiss typewriter.[31]

To demonstrate that forgery by typewriter was not merely a theoretical possibility but had actually occurred in the Hiss case, the defense sought to show that Exhibit #UUU was not Hiss's old machine but a newer one altered to type like it. According to former Woodstock executives, the production date of a machine could be inferred from the machine's serial number. The serial number on the Exhibit #UUU typewriter indicated that it would have been manufactured after the man who sold the Hiss machine had retired from the company and the salesman insisted that he sold no typewriters after his retirement. Decades later, when FBI files were disclosed under the Freedom of Information Act, it turned out that the FBI also doubted that the trial exhibit was Hiss's machine and for exactly the same reasons; although the FBI expressed these concerns internally as the first trial was about to begin, the public did not learn about the FBI's doubts until the mid-1970s.[32] To explain why typing from Exhibit #UUU seemed indistinguishable from the typing on Hiss's old machine, Lane assembled experts prepared to testify that Exhibit #UUU had been tampered with in a way inconsistent with professional repair work to make it type like Hiss's old typewriter. In addition, experts were prepared to testify that Priscilla Hiss was not the typist of the Baltimore documents.[33]

In summarizing the conclusions of the forensic experts he had assembled in his motion for a new trial, Chester Lane told the court, "I no longer just question the authenticity of Woodstock N230099. I now say to the Court that Woodstock N230099 — the typewriter in evidence at the trials — is a fake machine. I present in affidavit form, and will be able to produce at the hearing, expert testimony that this machine is a deliberately fabricated job, a new type face on an old body. This being so, it can only have been planted on the defense by or on behalf of Whittaker Chambers as part of his plot for the false incrimination of Alger Hiss."[34]

In July, 1952 Judge Goddard — expressing great skepticism that Chambers had the resources and know-how to commit forgery by typewriter and would have known where to plant such a fake machine so it would be found — denied Hiss's motion for a new trial. Professor Irving Younger wrote, "To leave the counterfeit Woodstock lying about for the defense to pick up and examine would serve only to expose the whole scheme to the risk of discovery—and for no reason."[7]

In his 1976 memoir, former White House counsel John Dean states that President Nixon's chief counsel Charles Colson told him that Nixon had admitted in a conversation that HUAC had fabricated a typewriter, saying, "We built one on the Hiss case."[35] According to author Anthony Summers, "When Dean’s book was published, Colson protested that he had 'no recollection of Nixon’s having said the typewriter was "phonied",' and Nixon himself characterized the claim as 'totally false.' Dean, however, insisted that his contemporary notes confirmed that Colson had quoted the president as he indicated and seemed serious when he did so."[36] Summers and others suggest that Dean's version of events is plausible: "'Had Nixon asked the FBI to manufacture evidence to prove his case against Hiss,' opined former FBI Assistant Director Sullivan, 'Hoover would actually been only too glad to oblige'. As to whether Nixon would actually have gone as far as to frame Hiss," Summers notes that, "the later record includes disquieting instances of forgery or planting false information." [37] In his book on anti-Communist classics of the Cold War, John V. Fleming disagrees, arguing that on the White House tapes Nixon never says anything that would have corroborated Colson's statement to Dean about forging a typewriter in the Hiss case. Fleming maintains that a statement on the Nixon tapes that sounds some to "Hissite" transcribers like "we made a typewriter" was likely instead, "we had typewriter.[38] On the other hand the Nixon tapes did repeatedly refer to the Hiss case, with Nixon emphasizing that he had tried Hiss in the press, not in the law courts, because that's how these things were done:

We won the Hiss case in the papers. We did. I had to lead stuff all over the place. Because the Justice Department would not prosecute it. Hoover didn’t even cooperate. . . It was won in the papers….I leaked out the papers. . . . I leaked out the testimony. I had Hiss convicted before he ever got to the grand jury. . . . Go back and read the chapter on the Hiss case [his book] in Six Crises and you’ll see how it was done. It wasn’t done waiting for the goddam courts or the attorney general or the FBI. . .[39]

According to Anthony Summers:

The one substantive piece of information indicating typewriter forgery features the OSS and its chief, William Donovan. In late 1948, when the Hiss defense and the FBI began the protracted hunt of the Woodstock typewriter, a man named Horace Schmahl jointed the defense team as an investigator. Schmahl had worked for either the OSS or army intelligence during the war, then joined the Central Intelligence Group, the organization that operated in between the closedown of the OSS and the inception of the CIA. After his stint for the Hiss side, Schmahl defected to the prosecution team.[40]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alger_Hiss
 
Remember how the Soviet Government was "bad" because their diplomats engaged in spying and "ours" didn't?

Comrade Stalin

No, I don't remember that. Anyone older than a four year old knows that happens.
 
who was never convicted of espionage or proven to be a communist.

He was convicted, in an atmosphere of political hysteria, of perjury by someone who got immunity and changed his story.

The whole circus was ring-led by the egregious Richard Nixon, who should have been convicted of a whole raft of crimes, but wasn't, because like the
terrorist criminals who infested the Reagan administration, he was pardoned by the new guy...

A very bad example.

Facts, not opinions is what wins arguments.

Comrade Stalain

The Venona papers left no doubt at all that Hiss, known by his soviet handlers as "ALES", was indeed a soviet spy, and such democrats as Daniel Patrick Moynihan said they left no doubt. The leftwing incredibly constinues to repeat the "political hysteria" mantra, over guilt that they supported for decades the most murderous, genocidal engine of death ever created by man - communism.
 
The Venona papers left no doubt at all that Hiss, known by his soviet handlers as "ALES", was indeed a soviet spy, and such democrats as Daniel Patrick Moynihan said they left no doubt. The leftwing incredibly constinues to repeat the "political hysteria" mantra, over guilt that they supported for decades the most murderous, genocidal engine of death ever created by man - communism.

...sigh..guesswork is not proof.

I don't care if Alger Hiss worked for the Soviet Union or not, because many intelligent people in the middle 20th century realised that Hitler needed to be stopped at all costs..but...it seems that good scholarship and rigid intellectual discipline, hallmarks of Stalin's written work, seemed to have eluded todays half-educated political wannabees...

I suppose, you haven't read a single thing by Stalin, or Lenin, or Marx.

Am I correct ?


"...In 1995, the CIA and U. S. National Security Agency made public for the first time the existence of the World War II Venona project, which had decrypted or partially decrypted thousands of telegrams sent from 1942 to 1945 to the Soviet Union by its U.S. operatives. Although known to the FBI, the existence of VENONA had been kept secret even from President Truman. One document, Venona # 1822, mentioned a Soviet spy codenamed ALES who worked with a group of "Neighbors". An FBI special agent, Robert Lamphere, concluded that the codename "ALES" was "probably Alger Hiss".[58][59] In 1997, Allen Weinstein, in the second edition of his book Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case (originally published in 1976), calls the Venona evidence "persuasive but not conclusive."[7] The bipartisan Moynihan Commission on Government Secrecy, chaired by Democratic Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, however, stated in its findings that year: "The complicity of Alger Hiss of the State Department seems settled. As does that of Harry Dexter White of the Treasury Department."[60] In his 1998 book Secrecy: The American Experience, Moynihan wrote, "Belief in the guilt or innocence of Alger Hiss became a defining issue in American intellectual life. Parts of the American government had conclusive evidence of his guilt, but they never told."[61] In their numerous books, Harvey Klehr, professor of political science at Emory University, and John Earl Haynes, historian of twentieth-century politics at the Library of Congress, have mounted an energetic defense of agent Robert Lamphere's conclusion that ALES indeed referred to Alger Hiss.[62] National Security Agency analysts have also gone on record asserting that ALES could only have been Alger Hiss.[63] The Venona transcript # 1822, sent March 30, 1945, from the Soviets' Washington station chief to Moscow,[59] appears to indicate that ALES attended the February 4–11, 1945, Yalta conference and then went to Moscow. Hiss did attend Yalta and then traveled to Moscow in his capacity as adviser to Secretary of State Edward Stettinius.[64] Some, however, have questioned whether Venona cable # 1822 constitutes definitive proof that ALES was Hiss. For example, John Lowenthal pointed out the following:

* ALES was said to be the leader of a small group of espionage agents but, apart from using his wife as a typist and Chambers as courier, Hiss was alleged by the prosecution to have acted alone.[65]
* ALES was a GRU (military intelligence) agent who obtained military intelligence and only rarely provided State Department material. In contrast, during his trial, Alger Hiss, an employee of the State Department, was accused having obtained only non-military information and the papers he was accused of having passed to the Soviets on a regular basis were non-military, State Department documents.
* Even had Hiss been a spy as alleged, after 1938 he would have been unlikely to have continued espionage activities as ALES did, since in 1938 Whittaker Chambers had broken with the Communist Party and gone into hiding, threatening to denounce his Communist Party colleagues unless they followed suit. Had Hiss been ALES, his cover would thus have been in extreme jeopardy and it would have been too risky for any Soviet agency to continue using him.
* Recent information provided by Alexander Vassiliev places ALES in Mexico City at a time when Hiss was known to have been in Washington.[66]

Lowenthal posited that ALES in fact was not at the Yalta conference at all and that the cable instead was directed to Soviet deputy foreign minister Andrey Vyshinsky.[67] According to Lowenthal, in paragraph six of Venona # 1822, the GRU asks Vyshinsky to get in touch with ALES to convey thanks from the GRU for a job well done — which would have been unnecessary if ALES had actually gone to Moscow, because the GRU could have thanked him there in person.[57] The late Eduard Mark of the Center for Air Force History hotly disputed Lowenthal's analysis on this point.[68] In 2005 the National Security Agency released the original Russian of the Venona texts. At a symposium held at the Center for Cryptologic History that year, intelligence historian John R. Schindler concluded that the original Russian text of Venona # 1822, removes any ambiguity and shows that ALES was indeed at Yalta: "the identification of ALES as Alger Hiss, made by the U.S. Government more than a half-century ago, seems exceptionally solid, based on the evidence now available; message 1822 is only one piece of that evidence, yet a compelling one."[69]

Rebutting Lowenthal, John Earl Haynes and Harvey Klehr argued that:

* None of the evidence presented at the Hiss trial precludes the possibility that Hiss could have been an espionage agent after 1938 or that he had only passed State Department documents after 1938.
* Chambers's charges were not seriously investigated until 1945 when Elizabeth Bentley defected, so the Soviets could in theory have considered it an acceptable risk for him continue his espionage work even after Chambers's 1938 defection.
* Vyshinsky was not in the U.S. between Yalta and the time of the Venona message, and the message is from the Washington KGB station reporting on a talk with ALES in the U.S., rendering Lowenthal's analysis impossible.[70]

An earlier Venona document, # 1579, had actually mentioned "HISS" by name. This partially decrypted cable consists of fragments of a 1943 message from the GRU chief in New York to headquarters in Moscow. The fragment reads: "... from the State Department by name of HISS ..." The name "HISS" appeared "spelled out in the Latin alphabet" (according to a footnote by the cryptanalysts). Since there is no first name, "HISS" could refer either to Alger or Donald Hiss, who both worked at the State Department at that time. Lowenthal maintained that had Hiss really been a spy the GRU would have been unlikely to have referred to him by his real name[57] in a coded transmission, since this was contrary to their usual practice.[62]

At an April 2007 symposium, authors Kai Bird and Svetlana Chervonnaya presented evidence that they claimed showed that not Hiss but Wilder Foote, a U.S. diplomat, was the best match to ALES, based on the movements of all the officials present at the U.S.-Soviet Yalta conference.[71] Bird and Chervonnaya noted that Foote had been in Mexico City at a time when a Soviet cable placed ALES there, whereas Hiss had left Mexico several days earlier (see above). Haynes and Klehr, however, note that Foote doesn't fit aspects of the description of ALES. Haynes and Klehr maintain that the author of the Soviet cable was someone who managed KGB assets rather than GRU assets like ALES - and could have been mistaken when he stated that ALES was still in Mexico City.[72][73]
[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alger_Hiss

Comrade Stalin
 
...sigh..guesswork is not proof.

I don't care if Alger Hiss worked for the Soviet Union or not, because many intelligent people in the middle 20th century realised that Hitler needed to be stopped at all costs..but...it seems that good scholarship and rigid intellectual discipline, hallmarks of Stalin's written work, seemed to have eluded todays half-educated political wannabees...

Spoken like a true Commie. The ends justify the means...right?

We can conclude from your statements that spying by the Soviets on their ally the USA, is okay because they were just trying to beat Hitler. This of course is garbage and a blatant lie. The stinking filthy Russkis were not spying on the USA to beat Hitler. They were spying on the USA to destroy it and steal all it's military and strategic secrets. The spying started in the 1930's when your idol was blowing Hitler daily and continued well after the war ended.

You lose the argument about the commie spy Alger Hiss, refuse to recognize you lost the argument, and then change the argument. Tactics common to your kind.
 
Stalin and many of his cabinet were Georgian.

Anastas Mikoyan was an Armenian.

Not stinking russians.

It seems your noble thoughts on antisemitism do not extend to other races.

Comrade Stalin
 
You lose the argument about the commie spy Alger Hiss, refuse to recognize you lost the argument, and then change the argument. Tactics common to your kind.

You stated that Hiss was a spy and then could not supply proof.

You lose the argument.

Comrade Stalin
 
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