God is gonna get us.

Pandora

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My interpretation of the "new guy" was this member, who anyone would believe was pushing his religion. He is quite open about it, in fact.

I never said he wasn't. I said that I wasn't but I was equally attacked. And I found it odd that Openmind posted a comment to me saying....

"I really would rather not "impose" my beliefs on anyone and I really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..." when she does attack anyone who disagrees with her even if they just post a bible quote.

You were the one who seemed upset at my asking her about her quote... not me

:)
 
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Openmind

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I saw it and I did choose not to reply to it. I replied to plc1 when he said it instead




Yes, I know that and you attack anyone who disagrees with your point of view. Don't get me wrong, I don't care that you attack everyone who has a different belief system than you do, I just found it different, strange, odd, funny that you posted...

"you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..."




I never claimed you were accusing me of pushing my religion, that again was a post to plc1 who thought the only reason you were attacking the new guy is because he was pushing his religion. I pointed out to him that you did the same to me in my post above his that he apparently missed and I didn't think I was pushing my religion, just posting a bible vs. so it wasn't probably just about his pushing his religion. My point was I found it odd that you said in your post ... 'you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... yet you were doing just that.



Pretty much you tell everyone they are wrong unless they agree with you. I don't care that you do it, I don't care that he does it. If he posted a statement to me like ....I really would rather not "impose" my beliefs on anyone and I really much prefer to let everyone find their own path... I would have replied to him the same as I did to you, I just think that plc1 would have been ok with that :)






I am really not that interested in your book, I know many people with your belief system so I have nothing to learn from it.



I would love to stop focusing on your every word, its just hard to do when you keep posting to me :)


Do you think it is possible that you may be confusing "attacks" with "expression of opinions?" I get it that you don't like my way of expressing myself nor most of my opinions. . .but it's okay not to like everyone. . .especially in a forum that is made for exchanges of ideas!

When you offer an opinion, even if I disagree with you, I don't necessarely feel that you are attacking me.

I believer that there is a difference between expressing an opinion and explaining a personal position, and imposing an opinion as "the word of God" and if one doesn't follow "that only possible way of thinking," one "will be damned to hell!"

I don't think I attacked you when you gave us the Esau quote. . .I pointed out that I still believe that God is love and not hate. I'm sorry if you feel "attacked" when I do not take scripture quotes as the only truth. . .I have a different perception of the writing in the Bible (especially the old testament) as you and Igor do. . .sorry if that is offensive to you, but for me, some of the scriptures are offensive as they make God sound like a narrow minded, revengeful, hateful God.

That doesn't mean that I am right, no more than it means that you are right. This is a forum. It is met (correct me if I'm wrong) to be a medium to exchange ideas, debate opinions, and offer different views on issues.
This is what I do. . . and I agree that I am VERY opinionated! So. . .what do you want me to do? Put my tail between my legs and run away from debates, because my way of expressing myself is not satisfactory to a few people? Sorry. . .I don't think I feel like doing that!

But, do you think we could stop that bickering? this is not debating on issues, it is splitting hair and entering into a pissing contest. . .if you want to win it. . . that's fine, you win!

If you prefer to continue this bickering, let's at least take it to a more private place (private messages maybe?), so that the other posters don't have to suffer the boring back and forth, and can go on with what this forum (in my opinion!) is for. . .DEBATING on issues, not petty arguments based on personalities and synthax!

I'm even willing to qualify each one of my posts by starting them with the words "IN MY OPINION," although this again seems like an overkill, as EVERY post in this forum only reflects OPINIONS, unless they are relating FACTUAL information that contains absolute data!
But, I'm willing to try this for awhile!
 

Pandora

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Do you think it is possible that you may be confusing "attacks" with "expression of opinions?" I get it that you don't like my way of expressing myself nor most of my opinions. . .but it's okay not to like everyone. . .especially in a forum that is made for exchanges of ideas!

When you offer an opinion, even if I disagree with you, I don't necessarely feel that you are attacking me.

Yes it is very possible that I consider belittling other people, talking down to them as though their beliefs or ideas are somehow inferior to your own and speaking to them in a condescending way an attack, and I probably should not do that in todays world.

But then again I really don’t care that you talk to me or anyone in that way as I stated in 3 prior posts. I was only asking how one could speak that way to others yet feel they Ouote.."Really would rather not "impose" their beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..." That is the only reason I brought it up. And I would not even have done that except that you posted that to me. Had you posted that statement to someone else I would have ignored it.

believer that there is a difference between expressing an opinion and explaining a personal position, and imposing an opinion as "the word of God" and if one doesn't follow "that only possible way of thinking," one "will be damned to hell!"

cool, again I really don’t care. I was just asking a single question based on a post you directed to me.


don't think I attacked you when you gave us the Esau quote. . .I pointed out that I still believe that God is love and not hate. I'm sorry if you feel "attacked" when I do not take scripture quotes as the only truth. . .I have a different perception of the writing in the Bible (especially the old testament) as you and Igor do. . .sorry if that is offensive to you, but for me, some of the scriptures are offensive as they make God sound like a narrow minded, revengeful, hateful God.

Refer back to the top reply.. and It would be impossible for you to offend me so no need to be sorry.


doesn't mean that I am right, no more than it means that you are right. This is a forum. It is met (correct me if I'm wrong) to be a medium to exchange ideas, debate opinions, and offer different views on issues.
This is what I do. . . and I agree that I am VERY opinionated! So. . .what do you want me to do? Put my tail between my legs and run away from debates, because my way of expressing myself is not satisfactory to a few people? Sorry. . .I don't think I feel like doing that!
Hrmm... Tuck your tail between your legs? Why would I want that? All I wanted was to understand how you could talk down to people yet claim "you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..."


, do you think we could stop that bickering? this is not debating on issues, it is splitting hair and entering into a pissing contest. . .if you want to win it. . . that's fine, you win
Yeah, stop posting to me :)



you prefer to continue this bickering, let's at least take it to a more private place (private messages maybe?), so that the other posters don't have to suffer the boring back and forth, and can go on with what this forum (in my opinion!) is for. . .DEBATING on issues, not petty arguments based on personalities and synthax!
I would really rather not private message with you but thank you for the offer


even willing to qualify each one of my posts by starting them with the words "IN MY OPINION," although this again seems like an overkill, as EVERY post in this forum only reflects OPINIONS, unless they are relating FACTUAL information that contains absolute data!
But, I'm willing to try this for awhile!

No need, now that I know you state your opinion as though it were an absolute fact with no wiggle room :)
 

Openmind

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Yes it is very possible that I consider belittling other people, talking down to them as though their beliefs or ideas are somehow inferior to your own and speaking to them in a condescending way an attack, and I probably should not do that in todays world.

But then again I really don’t care that you talk to me or anyone in that way as I stated in 3 prior posts. I was only asking how one could speak that way to others yet feel they Ouote.."Really would rather not "impose" their beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..." That is the only reason I brought it up. And I would not even have done that except that you posted that to me. Had you posted that statement to someone else I would have ignored it.



cool, again I really don’t care. I was just asking a single question based on a post you directed to me.




Refer back to the top reply.. and It would be impossible for you to offend me so no need to be sorry.


Hrmm... Tuck your tail between your legs? Why would I want that? All I wanted was to understand how you could talk down to people yet claim "you really would rather not "impose" your beliefs on anyone and you really much prefer to let everyone find their own path..."


Yeah, stop posting to me :)



I would really rather not private message with you but thank you for the offer




No need, now that I know you state your opinion as though it were an absolute fact with no wiggle room :)

:cool ;) :)
 

Dr.Who

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Perhaps because the new guy does believe that he must impose his beliefs on everyone else in order to save them from Hell.

In which case are beliefs imposed on a person to a greater degree?

Case 1: Believe what I tell you or you will be sent to hell which you don't believe in by the God you don't believe in.

Case 2: Believe what I tell you or I will make you as miserable as I can in the way I treat you.
 

Dr.Who

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I'm pretty sure that Openmind and Dr. Who are not homosexuals. They can correct me if I'm wrong.

Is accepting homosexuals for who they are a sin also, or is it necessary to hate them?

It is not necessary to hate them, it is necessary to love them, and in arguments every effort must be made to speak in truth and love with gentleness.
 

Openmind

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It is not necessary to hate them, it is necessary to love them, and in arguments every effort must be made to speak in truth and love with gentleness.

It is not necessary to hate them, it is not necessary to love them.

It is necessary to give them respects as human beings, to give them every rights as human beings, and to do much more than "tolerate" their choice of a partner: it is necessary to accept and respect that choice.
 

Dr.Who

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It is not necessary to hate them, it is not necessary to love them.

It is necessary to give them respects as human beings, to give them every rights as human beings, and to do much more than "tolerate" their choice of a partner: it is necessary to accept and respect that choice.

If you respect a person and his rights you are loving them.

It is not necessary to accept anyone's choice of partners no matter who they are or what group they belong to. It is perfectly possible to respect a person without accepting their ideas.
 
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Openmind

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If you respect a person and his rights you are loving them.

It is not necessary to accept anyone's choice of partners no matter who they are or what group they belong to. It is perfectly possible to respect a person without accepting their ideas.


Well, you are a good person. But I do not use the word "love" lightly.

I very much am in favor of gay rights and I know and like many gay people. I haven't met one that I have loved yet. Although I came close to love a man who had spent most of his life trying to hide his homosexuality from his tyrannic grandmother (who was that tyrannic because she was trying to "change" him through religion, without letting him know that she knew he was gay, but by repeating daily, since he was a child, that gay people were filthy, and would go to hell, and deserved to die). By the time I met this man he was attending a mental health day program because of his diagnosis of clinical depression and extreme anxiety disorder.

I did become overly attached to him (in my role as social worker, I'm afraid I became a little too involved with his case), and I was VERY happy to help him take the final step to "come out" as a gay man in the annual gay parade in the city where we both lived. His best friend (another man with mental illness, totally heterosexual) and I walked with him in the gay parade. And this was the beginning of his healing.

Still. . .I'm not sure I can say that I "loved" him!

And, I think we need to accept someone's choice of partner! It is THEIR life, not ours! If we respect them, we have to respect their choice. We may not like it. . .but then again, how many future mother in laws really LIKE the choice their "baby boy" makes when choosing a bride? But we have to respect that choice, even if the "bride to be" doesn't quite meet the "mother in law's standard of perfection for her PERFECT offspring!

So, I'm sorry, but once again, I must disagree with you on this. IF we respect someone, the only real way to show respect is to accept their choice, whether or not we fully agree with that choice. And the same thing goes for hetero or homosexual couples.

However, I do agree that you don't need to accept someone's ideas to respect them, or that you don't have to respect them to accept their ideas. . .I see this as a totally different issue. For exemple, from the little I know about you through your posting, I have a fair amount of respect for you. . .I just don't necessarely accept many of your ideas. Sorry!

But, again, this is obviously my opinion. . .no reference to any books, or anything factual! ;)
 
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