Greedy government workers

[Openmind]

Statists want people to be "allowed to die" when cures are available, so that they can balance their rationing budget - nothing else.

YOU SAID:



You are clearly talking about rationing by a death panel, not God.

When God was the only one in charge, before medicine and the huge progress that have been made, people's life expectancy was closer to 45 or 60 than to 80!

Being born IS a terminal illness. One should love one's life, and thrive to fullfill their potential. However, engaging in "heroic procedures" beyond a certain point is no longer prolonguing life, it is prolonguing death.

Hospice is one of the greatest and most human services that can be provided to a person at the end of his/her life.
I do not wish you to have to personally experience this dedicated service (neither for you or for a loved one), but if the need should arise, you will without any doubt thank the dedicated people from hospice.

 

[Rick]

When God was the only one in charge, before medicine and the huge progress that have been made, people's life expectancy was closer to 45 or 60 than to 80!

Being born IS a terminal illness. One should love one's life, and thrive to fullfill their potential. However, engaging in "heroic procedures" beyond a certain point is no longer prolonguing life, it is prolonguing death.

Hospice is one of the greatest and most human services that can be provided to a person at the end of his/her life.
I do not wish you to have to personally experience this dedicated service (neither for you or for a loved one), but if the need should arise, you will without any doubt thank the dedicated people from hospice.

The issue isn't hospice - stop distorting what he said with straw men. Once again, he said:

Between 65-80, you don't get hip replacements and cures for complex cancers, etc.

Hospice has been for the terminally ill - leftwingers want to turn it into a money saver by letting curable people die. Keep up with what is actually said, or quit cluttering the thread.

 

[Hobo1]

Hospice has been for the terminally ill - leftwingers want to turn it into a money saver by letting curable people die. Keep up with what is actually said, or quit cluttering the thread.

Cancer is "terminally ill"! Being born is "terminally ill". Words like death panel and terminally ill have no precise definition.

We are talking about a government program and the associated regulations. Rules and regulations which list exactly how is my tax dollar will be spent. That is how all government programs operate, or should operate.

Surely you would not consider it reasonable for my tax dollar to do brain surgery to remove a cancerous lump from someone who is 110-years-old! If the old fart wants brain surgery, let him find the money elsewhere. I would much rather my limited tax dollar be used to educate a young person in school. Our country will be a better place to live if we spend tax money wisely.

But if you don't like "Death Panels" (and no one likes the idea), you can choose the system that other European countries use: you wait forever for a doctor or an operation.

That way, no one need to make the ugly moral decision, time and God will make the decision for you. You just wait, sick and suffering, in your home waiting for your 'turn' when the hospital will have a vacant bed. But everyone knows that day will probably never come. You like that idea?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I would certainly expect that the leftists would be strongly in favor of "death panels" for senior citizens. After all, they are in favor of killing unborn babies. This is just an extension of that philosophy.

Kill the old. Kill the unborn. What's next? Kill the handicapped? Kill the Jews? Sounds familiar.

 

[Hobo1]

I would certainly expect that the leftists would be strongly in favor of "death panels" for senior citizens. After all, they are in favor of killing unborn babies. This is just an extension of that philosophy.

Kill the old. Kill the unborn. What's next? Kill the handicapped? Kill the Jews? Sounds familiar.

Get real, would you?

 

[TruthSeeker]

Get real, would you?

Maybe you need to "get real". I agree with, and respect, much of what you write, Hobo, so don't discount what I write with a left wing bumper sticker comeback.

Take a look at Obama's obvious disdain for Israel.

Take a look at the sinister "big picture" of Obamacare.

 

[Rick]

Cancer is "terminally ill"!

No, many people survive cancer.

Being born is "terminally ill".

That people eventually die has NOTHING to do with premature death by death panel rationing.

Words like death panel and terminally ill have no precise definition.

Bullshiit:

Death panel: An organization within a statist health care system, which determines that some shall not receive treatment, when such treatments exists and would save their lives.

We are talking about a government program and the associated regulations. Rules and regulations which list exactly how is my tax dollar will be spent. That is how all government programs operate, or should operate.

That rules exist does not ipso facto imply death panel rationing, that would be a possible policy, not a necessary one.

Surely you would not consider it reasonable for my tax dollar to do brain surgery to remove a cancerous lump from someone who is 110-years-old! If the old fart wants brain surgery, let him find the money elsewhere.

Once you get into the death panel mode, it is not such ludicrous examples that are the issue, but rather such as a heart transplant for a 55 year old.

But if you don't like "Death Panels" (and no one likes the idea), you can choose the system that other European countries use: you wait forever for a doctor or an operation.

Nonsense, BOTH death panels and long waiting lines are artifacts of statist health systems. Eg, the "National Institute for Clinical Excellence" is Britain's death panel.

 

[Hobo1]

Maybe you need to "get real". I agree with, and respect, much of what you write, Hobo, so don't discount what I write with a left wing bumper sticker comeback.

Take a look at Obama's obvious disdain for Israel.

Take a look at the sinister "big picture" of Obamacare.

All I ask is that you and other people talk specifics, something that can be debated, something where facts can be discussed.

Simply saying that "Kill the old. Kill the unborn. What's next? Kill the handicapped? Kill the Jews? Sounds familiar." That's a bumper sticker. How can anybody, liberal or conservative discuss such a broad accusation as "all Liberals are killers".

The underlying philosophy and fundamental facts surrounding the Israel/Palestine debate are far, far different than the abortion issue, or regulations for Medicare. Completely, totally, different underlying concepts.

To lump them all together is simply trolling, in my opinion.

 

[Hobo1]

Nonsense, BOTH death panels and long waiting lines are artifacts of statist health systems. Eg, the "National Institute for Clinical Excellence" is Britain's death panel.

This is an issue where we will just have to disagree. I don't have any better words to explain my philosophy on government health care. I believe it is the correct position.

I can't justify any government program that will just give away free health care to everybody in every situation. It is not sustainable, and it is not fair to the tax payer.

Again, if somebody wants a Cadillac health plan, then let him/her buy it with their own money - not mine.

 

[TruthSeeker]

All I ask is that you and other people talk specifics, something that can be debated, something where facts can be discussed.

Simply saying that "Kill the old. Kill the unborn. What's next? Kill the handicapped? Kill the Jews? Sounds familiar." That's a bumper sticker. How can anybody, liberal or conservative discuss such a broad accusation as "all Liberals are killers".

The underlying philosophy and fundamental facts surrounding the Israel/Palestine debate are far, far different than the abortion issue, or regulations for Medicare. Completely, totally, different underlying concepts.

To lump them all together is simply trolling, in my opinion.

Have you ever thought that sometimes people express their opinions, and responses by other "participants" are not required?

I expressed my opinion about the leftist "philosophy" in regards to life and death. I don't give a rat's behind if you or anybody else agree with my opinion or not.

Responding with "get real, would you?" is a NON-response, and is about as NON-specific as a response can be. A four-word response, such as "get real, would you?" certainly qualifies as a "troll" response.

Practice what you preach.

 

[Rick]

This is an issue where we will just have to disagree. I don't have any better words to explain my philosophy on government health care. I believe it is the correct position.

I can't justify any government program that will just give away free health care to everybody in every situation. It is not sustainable, and it is not fair to the tax payer.

Straw man - neither I nor anyone suggested that.

Again, if somebody wants a Cadillac health plan, then let him/her buy it with their own money - not mine.

I pay for my own insurance, as an independent contractor. It's horrendously expensive. That's another obamidiocy - their monetary cutoff point for "cadillac" plans just buys standard insurance in california. So they want to dump a tax on people who are already paying huge rates. Why are the rates huge? Because the democrat legislature drove all but a couple big health insurance companies out of california, by creating an anti-business climate that is ranked by Barrons as the worst of 50 states, and Puerto Rico. Incidentally, that's the same reason that there's over 12% unemployment in the state. The leftwingers create disasters with their policies, and then use those disasters to justify more disastrous policies - it's a death spiral. In the case of their health care rationing schemes, it's LITERALLY a death spiral.