If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what if...

pocketfullofshells

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SO what if Iran overthrows its government?

Since Muslims can't be trusted to have there own government without turning into a Iranian state....does this mean if Iran overthrows its leaders it will be "just like Iran in 1979?" again? Will they topple the government and let some Islamic fanatics take power?

These are all things said about Egypt...so if Iran already has all those things...what happens if it overthrows theres? they put in place...the exact same thing they threw out?
 
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BigRob

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

SO what if Iran overthrows its government?

Since Muslims can't be trusted to have there own government without turning into a Iranian state....does this mean if Iran overthrows its leaders it will be "just like Iran in 1979?" again? Will they topple the government and let some Islamic fanatics take power?

These are all things said about Egypt...so if Iran already has all those things...what happens if it overthrows theres? they put in place...the exact same thing they threw out?

Good video you ought to watch on the matter.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789//vp/41577220#41577220

As an aside, at the end, as if missing the entire point of the argument, they both say "Personally, I think Egypt went pretty well." It is as if they think it is somehow over.
 

dogtowner

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

Egypt didn't overthrow Mubarek, there was a military coup which not much of a coup since the military already ran the government with Mubarek as figurehead they put in place 30 years ago. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

Egypt didn't overthrow Mubarek, there was a military coup which not much of a coup since the military already ran the government with Mubarek as figurehead they put in place 30 years ago. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

you just keep saying that, maybe one day you may even believe its true yourself.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

Good video you ought to watch on the matter.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036789//vp/41577220#41577220

As an aside, at the end, as if missing the entire point of the argument, they both say "Personally, I think Egypt went pretty well." It is as if they think it is somehow over.

I think as far as we can know, it went well...the reforms wanted to have been agreed to for the most part...though some will take time to act on...the bloodshed was small in comparison to many nations that have had to overthrow a dictator.. Say Iraq the first 2 times it tried in the 90's under Bush I and Clinton...Or the US who fought a war ( really 2) for basically the same thing ...though today we see it as a outside power...Mubarak was a outside power to many of his own people...not in that he was not Egyptian. but that he was not serving there interests.

It will be some time to know the results...but I think how it played out gives Egypt the best shot at a real government that works for its people , not in spite of them. one where in time, ideas of personal freedom, tolerance, and Rights will gain strength. Under Mubarak, all it could do it keep going with a system that ignored the people, could not produce jobs, and basically would get closer and closer to the perfect breeding ground for the very extremist we don't want.

If Mubarak had staying in power, nothing would get better...just a controled downward spiral, then he would be replaced be someone else who would do the same..all using the same "fear" as a excuse not to reform there government...Because for them, the system worked...they got paid off, and lived well...and the rest of the nation suffered...but if they spoke up about that, you just smash them down or jail them...or "silence" them. And your life goes on and things are good ...for them.
 

dogtowner

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

you just keep saying that, maybe one day you may even believe its true yourself.


there are none so blind as they who will not see.

Mubarak was appointed Vice President of Egypt in 1975, and assumed the presidency on 14 October 1981, following the assassination of President Anwar El Sadat. The length of his presidency made him Egypt's longest-serving ruler since Muhammad Ali Pasha.[2] Before he entered politics, Mubarak was a career officer in the Egyptian Air Force, serving as its commander from 1972 to 1975 and rising to the rank of air chief marshal.

What the military giveth the military can taketh away.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

there are none so blind as they who will not see.



What the military giveth the military can taketh away.

who was the head of the Military when the US became independent? who was the first president? who Gave that power up to the people even when he could have held it as long as he wanted basically?

you act like our Military could not take over our government in a heart beat...it chooses not to...thats all that stops it.
 

BigRob

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

I think as far as we can know, it went well...the reforms wanted to have been agreed to for the most part...though some will take time to act on...the bloodshed was small in comparison to many nations that have had to overthrow a dictator.. Say Iraq the first 2 times it tried in the 90's under Bush I and Clinton...Or the US who fought a war ( really 2) for basically the same thing ...though today we see it as a outside power...Mubarak was a outside power to many of his own people...not in that he was not Egyptian. but that he was not serving there interests.

I was somewhat surprised by this comment (and it is seemingly true) that the State Department and the NSC had not even considered the possibility of an Egypt without Mubarek.

It will be some time to know the results...but I think how it played out gives Egypt the best shot at a real government that works for its people , not in spite of them. one where in time, ideas of personal freedom, tolerance, and Rights will gain strength.

It will be some time before we know, but the idea that Egypt "went well" is outrageous, because it is still going.

Under Mubarak, all it could do it keep going with a system that ignored the people, could not produce jobs, and basically would get closer and closer to the perfect breeding ground for the very extremist we don't want.

Under the new system, nothing has really changed yet in those regards.

If Mubarak had staying in power, nothing would get better...just a controled downward spiral, then he would be replaced be someone else who would do the same..all using the same "fear" as a excuse not to reform there government...Because for them, the system worked...they got paid off, and lived well...and the rest of the nation suffered...but if they spoke up about that, you just smash them down or jail them...or "silence" them. And your life goes on and things are good ...for them.

Time will tell if that was preferable to what replaces it.
 

dogtowner

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

who was the head of the Military when the US became independent? who was the first president? who Gave that power up to the people even when he could have held it as long as he wanted basically?

you act like our Military could not take over our government in a heart beat...it chooses not to...thats all that stops it.


G.Washington had no interest in leading the country but did the right thing. The military took over 30 years ago and took the other path. Do you really think that tiger will change it's stripes ?
 

kowalskil

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

Egypt didn't overthrow Mubarek, there was a military coup which not much of a coup since the military already ran the government with Mubarek as figurehead they put in place 30 years ago. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I do not think it will be the same. But also do not think that it will be better.

Ludwik
.
 

nobull

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

I think as far as we can know, it went well...the reforms wanted to have been agreed to for the most part...though some will take time to act on...the bloodshed was small in comparison to many nations that have had to overthrow a dictator.. Say Iraq the first 2 times it tried in the 90's under Bush I and Clinton...Or the US who fought a war ( really 2) for basically the same thing ...though today we see it as a outside power...Mubarak was a outside power to many of his own people...not in that he was not Egyptian. but that he was not serving there interests.

It will be some time to know the results...but I think how it played out gives Egypt the best shot at a real government that works for its people , not in spite of them. one where in time, ideas of personal freedom, tolerance, and Rights will gain strength. Under Mubarak, all it could do it keep going with a system that ignored the people, could not produce jobs, and basically would get closer and closer to the perfect breeding ground for the very extremist we don't want.

If Mubarak had staying in power, nothing would get better...just a controled downward spiral, then he would be replaced be someone else who would do the same..all using the same "fear" as a excuse not to reform there government...Because for them, the system worked...they got paid off, and lived well...and the rest of the nation suffered...but if they spoke up about that, you just smash them down or jail them...or "silence" them. And your life goes on and things are good ...for them.


Very well stated..thanks

doug
 

dogtowner

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

I do not think it will be the same. But also do not think that it will be better.

Ludwik
.


The window dressing may look different but as you suggest, it will not change things for the population. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Will they be fooled again ? So far yes.
 

pocketfullofshells

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

The window dressing may look different but as you suggest, it will not change things for the population. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Will they be fooled again ? So far yes.

The new boss is already making good changes for the people, and no it can't be done overnight...so you can keep talking about what has it done...but no one expects overnight changes..Wait till they get a new system set up, and are able to actuly hold there election...and only then will you start to see the changes.

But knowing you, you will just set the bar as high as possible for as soon as possible so you can say they failed.
 

BigRob

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

The new boss is already making good changes for the people, and no it can't be done overnight...so you can keep talking about what has it done...but no one expects overnight changes..Wait till they get a new system set up, and are able to actuly hold there election...and only then will you start to see the changes.

But knowing you, you will just set the bar as high as possible for as soon as possible so you can say they failed.

Interesting event today in Egypt.

Military used force to disperse protesters.
 
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pocketfullofshells

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Re: If egypt overthrows Mubarak, a Islamic Sharia law state will take over..so what i

Interesting event today in Egypt.

Military used force to disperse protesters.

at least the army appoligized and said it was not the intent of the higher ups to have such a thing happen...before they would have done worse and no one would ever have to question it...

No one expects a perfect change , Much like our military had no clue what to do after Saddam Fell..Egypt's army was not exactly looking to be in the position its in , and will make mistakes I have no doubt... No major revolution or change in government like this, ever has gone perfectly smooth.
 
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