Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here’

[katsung47]

Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here’


By Global Research News

Global Research, December 01, 2012

I sat in on a lecture, given in English, to maybe fifty or more young men and women at a college in Ramadi.

Then a young man in the front row only a couple of feet from me said in a quiet voice “We have nothing to say. The last years have been only sad ones.” Again there was silence.


Sami, my host from Najaf and part of the Muslim Peacemaker Team, stood and shared. He told the story of how, after the U.S. bombing assaults on Fallujah, he and others came from the Shia cities of Najaf and Karbala, to carry out a symbolic act of cleaning up rubble and trash in the streets of Fallujah. This gesture, he said, melted hearts and healed some of the brokenness between Sunni and Shia. He

spoke of the delegation of peacemakers from the United States who were just in Najaf for twelve days, of the work to build bridges and seek reconciliation.

An impassioned young woman from the middle of the lecture hall spoke up. It was obviously not easy for her. “It is not,” she said, “about lack of water and electricity [something I had mentioned]. You have destroyed everything. You have destroyed our country. You have destroyed what is inside of us! You have destroyed our ancient civilization. You have taken our smiles from us. You have

taken our dreams!”

Someone asked, “Why did you this? What did we do to you that you would do this to us?”

“Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here,” said another. “They destroyed the childhood. You don’t destroy everything and then say ‘We’re sorry.’ “You don’t commit crimes and then say ‘Sorry.’”

“To bomb us and then send teams to do investigations on the effects of the bombs…No, it will not be forgotten. It is not written on our hearts, it is carved in our hearts.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqis-cannot-forget-what-americans-have-done-here/5313695?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=iraqis-cannot-forget-what-americans-have-done-here


Petagon got fat budget. Americans harvest hatred.

 

[TheJPRD]

^ It's odd that the Shias seem to have forgotten the thousands of Shia bodies found in the graves dug for them after they were executed on the spot by Sadam's military. So the Iraqis now consider mass murders like that "the good old days" huh??????????

When my Conservative friends read articles like the pathetic one posted above, IGNORE them! They're nothing more than garbage dessiminated by leftist scum!

 

[Cruella]

Saddam didn't appear to be all that religious himself, although he is listed as a Sunni. There is still a lot of sectarian violence going on in Iraq, infact we just sent back 3000 U.S. soldiers. These people have the opportunity to have a free and democratic society, if they want it. It's up to them to get along with each other. I find it odd that Shites are all unhappy now, when they were the ones mocking Saddam at his execution and dancing on his grave.

 

[katsung47]

Saddam didn't appear to be all that religious himself, although he is listed as a Sunni. There is still a lot of sectarian violence going on in Iraq, infact we just sent back 3000 U.S. soldiers. These people have the opportunity to have a free and democratic society, if they want it. It's up to them to get along with each other. I find it odd that Shites are all unhappy now, when they were the ones mocking Saddam at his execution and dancing on his grave.

If "it's up to them, then why did you go to their land? That's their home after all. So much for your free and democracy:

Saddam has not killed that many people in years as the "democratic" Iraq has!

8 killed, 24 injured in another day of carnage in Baghdad

Iraqis inspect the damage from mortar rounds that struck the Chikok neighborhood of Baghdad on October 23, 2012.


Official figures show that September was the bloodiest month in Iraq in almost two years, with attacks killing 365 people, the highest monthly death toll since August 2010.

Violence has increased in Iraq since December 2011, when an arrest warrant was issued for fugitive Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, who has been charged with running a death squad targeting Iraqi officials and Shia Muslims.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/10/23/268401/8-dead-in-another-day-of-carnage-in-iraq/

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

The US killed around 1 million Iraqis, mostly civilians during the war
Before that they impoverished and infected millions more with their sanctions
The US used cluster bombs and white phospherous on civilians which is in breach of the Geneva convention
They did it following the fabrication of a story about Iraq having WMD
Then they changed this to regime change, the change of a regime they fought to install and watched happily as its leader committed appalling acts for years
They took around 750 embedded journalists ie stooges who were managed in what they could see and what they could report which is why dickheads in the US are in denial about the above

 

[Hobo1]

I have lived in two Islamic country for a total of 16 years. I am frequently amazed how uninformed most American's are of other people's culture. In many country most of the people are more attached to their religion than any sort of loyalty (or patriotism) to their country. Their lives revolve around their religion, and a dictator form of government is all they have ever known or wanted.

Don't forget, a dictator is a very efficient way to run a government. No gridlock, no squabbling about social policy. The dictator lays down the rules and the army acts as police and judge to maintain law and order in the country. Rebels who oppose the dictator regime are dealt with harshly. But, in general, the people live a contented life. No bureaucrats and a lot fewer petty rules, such as getting auto insurance, for example.

In general, the two Islamic sects: Sunni and Shites got along because they lived in different areas, and its always been that way for thousands of years. Each sect respected the traditions of the other and generally settled into a cooperative relationship.

Furthermore, they don't think about social issues... their religion lays down the rules of behavior regarding things like abortion, charity, etc. Most people live close to their family, and extended family, so grandmother is always available to help take care of a sick child. Conversely, farmers, fishermen, carpenters, healers work share the workload without extensive squabbling about pay.

Now imagine the American culture, including democracy, being suddenly forced upon them. Since the army is also the police, bombs are dropped in neighborhood areas, and basically this new system brings nothing but death and destruction. People know nothing about politics and voting is a strange process - most people can't understand the ballot. Candidates can buy votes by handing out tee shirts.

America simply introduced chaos into the daily lives of the average citizen who had no idea what was happening. You can see why the death of a family member was so hard on the entire community. The idea of a veteran who died trying to protect their country was an incomprehensible concept.

Once the violence was initiated by the first Gulf War, then it was inevitable that the point of conflict would be between religions groups. As I said, people were (and are) more loyal to religion than country. Once religious conflicts broke out, then there was no putting Humpty Dumpty back together again.

And thus, we see the prospect of continued conflict for years to come.... and the citizens of Iraq will always hate the US for bringing such chaos into their lives.

 

[Cruella]

I would like to see a poll on whether or not the Iraqis' were happier under Saddam and his sadistic sons than they are today. I followed Iraqi bloggers during the war and didn't get the same rosy picture you are painting.​

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[Hobo1]

Of course a Iraq had a lot of dissidents and more intellectual citizens who understood political science with different governmental systems. However, I was talking about the average citizen who were uninformed and modestly educated.

 

[katsung47]

I would like to see a poll on whether or not the Iraqis' were happier under Saddam and his sadistic sons than they are today. I followed Iraqi bloggers during the war and didn't get the same rosy picture you are painting.​

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A failed war - Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. That's what an US asset politician in Iraq says.

How the U.S. and the world can help Iraq

By Ayad Allawi, Published: August 31

“More than eight years after Saddam Hussein’s regime was overthrown, basic services are in a woeful state: Most of the country has only a few hours of electricity a day. Blackouts were increasingly common this summer.

“Oil exports, still Iraq’s only source of income, are barely more than they were when Hussein was toppled. The government has squandered the boon of high oil prices and failed to create real and sustainable job growth. Iraq’s economy has become an ever more dysfunctional mix of cronyism and mismanagement, with high unemployment and endemic corruption.
“Transparency International ranks Iraq the world’s fourth-most-corrupt country and by far the worst in the Middle East. The promise of improved security has been empty, with sectarianism on the rise.”

False Promises

Allawi also cites the false promises of democracy:

“Despite failing to win the most seats in last year’s elections, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki clung to power through a combination of Iranian support and U.S. compliance. He now shows an alarming disregard for democratic principles and the rule of law.

“Vital independent institutions such as the election commission, the transparency commission and Iraq’s central bank have been ordered to report directly to the office of the prime minister. Meanwhile, Maliki refuses to appoint consensus candidates as defense and interior ministers, as per last year’s power-sharing agreement.

“The government is using blatant dictatorial tactics and intimidation to quell opposition, ignoring the most basic human rights. Human Rights Watch reported in February on secret torture prisons under Maliki’s authority.

“In June, it exposed the government’s use of hired thugs to beat, stab and even sexually assault peaceful demonstrators in Baghdad who were complaining about corruption and poor services. These horrors are reminiscent of autocratic responses to demonstrations by failing regimes elsewhere in the region, and a far cry from the freedom and democracy promised in the new Iraq.

“Is this really what the United States sacrificed more than 4,000 young men and women, and hundreds of billions of dollars, to build? The trend of failure is becoming irreversible.”
So what is going on here? How can the U.S. media hail Petraeus’s “successful surge” and write about “victory at last” in Iraq when it appears that the Bush-Cheney-neocon intervention has created what amounts to a failed state in Iraq

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...an-help-iraq/2011/08/30/gIQAIPZxsJ_story.html

 

[Aus22]

Comments By Hobo1 and Katsung , are interesting. Living in an Islamic country or least near one like Australia does change your perspective. Most people in Islamic countries has a deep religious faith. Not always the leaders. They like Christians are divided into sects. They might co operate against a non Islamic country but can fight among themselves like Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland.

Shites might be grateful for the Americans for destroying the Sunni army of Hassan but they know they will have to fight to retain power once the American leave.

The American have been intervening in other countries since WW2. I am reading of its attempting invasion of Cuba during the Bay of Pigs invasion. It fail because it did not understand the people. The majority of Cubans are Catholic but they supported Castro because he help the ordinary people. American used the elites that had oppressed them in the attack. It fail because of many reasons, poor military organization, poor leadership but most o because there was no uprising of the people. American attempts to assassinate leaders, they have been 8 on Castro, have usually increase the support fort the leader and those hat replace him. Lies about why we went in, for examples presence o0f weapons on Mass destruction in Iraq, which were found out weapon American respect.

The American government has used hired thugs, for example the Mafia in Cuba. (Bay of Pigs, Blood of Cuba by Thomas Dehel)
Torture has also been used.

 

[Hobo1]

As angry as you might be about the things happening in Washington, how would you feel if some other country invaded the US and completely changed the whole system? Oh, and maybe some member of your family was injured during the fighting.

Korea and Vietnam should have taught us that getting involved with a countries internal affairs only makes enemies.... I don't care how good our intentions. It doesn't work.

I retired to Indonesia, largest Muslim country, and it really feels nice nice to know that the army here has is probably never going to war.

 

[Aus22]

Hobo1. I agree that Iraq should be angry at the invasion of the US. However there were some Iraquies who ask for American intervention. This does not justify it but shows how easy it is for a powerful nation to use the elite of a country to impose the government it wants. This is not just the USA but all the great empires have done the same. Even Indonesia has invaded its neighbours. Its army was active in trying to stop Timor from having independence. It is also active in West Papua suppressing any opposition.

I afraid no country is perfect.

 

[Hobo1]

Aus22, you are one of the few people who could give me an knowledgeable response. Indonesia has gone through a lot of turmoil trying to stop the country from pulling apart. A lot of countries are faced with conflict: Nepal, Myanmar, Sri Lanka even Thailand. You are right - every country faces its threats.

I guess the US has such a large military and is quick to use it in obtuse situations that makes me wonder if we will get involved in some obscure conflict in Africa or the Middle East. It's like we are looking for trouble. I really wish the US military would just stay home and worry about our true national security. Let the other countries fight their own battles. Really the US has very little to worry about in terms of true national security. Who's going to invade us?

 

[Iolo2]

Years ago I knew an Iraqi in our Labour Party Branch, a really intelligent and sensible person, who would explaint the position back home. Later, of course, we were served up all this codswallop about all Iraqis being religious fanatics, the way they are now setting to work to present the Iranians, of whom I knew very many who aren't. When you want to kill people you inevitably tell lies, and you are never likely to be loved for it. I write as one who opposed the last stages of the British Empire.

 

[Aus22]

Hobo1 and Lol92, you are both right. Every country has problems trying to keep united. However big powers like the British and American Empires often use their might where it is not necessary. It was not necessary for Britain to keep India in its empire or even the Fauklands. They did it because they could and they thought it was to their benefit,
The USA has done the same. Perhaps it was necessary to get involve in WW2 to save democracy in Europe and Asia. But it was not necessary to intervene where democracy as absent. Most of the the American wars since WW2 have fail because they try to give different countries what they did not want.