Islam's greatest invention

[Hobo1]

One of the most interesting and informative books on the origins of the Jews and a lot of other cultures in the ME is The Source by James A. Michener. No one can read this book and say, with certainty, who is on the right side of history in this conflict. To say there is no national identity for the Palestinians is like saying there is no national identity for the Kurds. Neither culture ever had a "State" as such. But the Palestinians, like so many other societies (used in a Sociological sense) do have their own distinct culture, traditions, and historical area they call the homeland.

To try to understand history from what exists on the ground today is impossible. Naturally many of these cultures were off-shoots of an older culture, including the Jews. In many cases these groups disappeared from the face of history, only to re-emerge at a later date. I live on Bahrain in 1969 (age 23, USNR) when the only naval forces in the area was a white ship commanded by an admiral, called the Commander Middle Eastern Forces (ComMidEasFor). I lived with my wife in a small village composed of many nationalities. My neighbor was a refugee from the area now known as Israel. He left in 1948 and identified himself clearly as a Palestinian.

 

[Gipper]

And so it goes. Never ending attacks in revenge for the last attack; tit for tat with no end in sight. A negotiated settlement is possible to stop this bloodshed. But neither side trusts the other side far enough to find this solution. Such is life in the ME. It would make a great video game for Play Station. Plenty of action, plenty of blood and gore.

As Don Quixote said:

"When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? To surrender dreams - -this may be madness; to seek treasure where there is only trash. Too much sanity may be madness! But maddest of all - -to see life as it is and not as it should be."​

Yeah...the Israelis should not retaliate when their people are murdered in cold blood. They should just accept death like the Jews did during Hitler's reign of terror.

What is wrong with them?

 

[Dr.Who]

One of the most interesting and informative books on the origins of the Jews and a lot of other cultures in the ME is The Source by James A. Michener. No one can read this book and say, with certainty, who is on the right side of history in this conflict. To say there is no national identity for the Palestinians is like saying there is no national identity for the Kurds. Neither culture ever had a "State" as such. But the Palestinians, like so many other societies (used in a Sociological sense) do have their own distinct culture, traditions, and historical area they call the homeland.

I am not saying they don't have a national identity. I am saying that they don't have an historical claim to the land other then the fact that they lived there in recent times.

IMO, each individual gave up his right to live on that land they day he betrayed the country in which he lived - which was Israel. Furthermore, after the war they were given opportunities to return, many did. For those who did not return they affirmed that they deserved no right to live within Israel.

 

[Hobo1]

I am not saying they don't have a national identity. I am saying that they don't have an historical claim to the land other then the fact that they lived there in recent times.

IMO, each individual gave up his right to live on that land they day he betrayed the country in which he lived - which was Israel. Furthermore, after the war they were given opportunities to return, many did. For those who did not return they affirmed that they deserved no right to live within Israel.

This issue has pretty much been talked out. As we both agreed several days ago, the UN really started this mess. The lesson learned, I believe, is UN must tread very carefully when playing a leading role in the formation and recognition of a new country. In South Sudan, the most recent state to be formed and recognized by the United Nations, the action was preceded by civil war and an overwhelming vote by the new country for Independence from north Sudan.

Opening up a pocket of land and designating it for a culturally different group of people, is going to create lasting problems. Israel was created not as a result of lasting civil war, but as a result of heavy political lobbying by the Zionists. The UN has been careful every since not to aggravate the situation by changing the rules even more by not allowing Israel to annex the occupied territories.

I certainly understand your position - and under different circumstances I would agree. However, inserting a Jewish state within a primarily Islamic Arab territory is going to create problems. I can understand why a Muslim Palestinian would not want to return to live in the area they previously called home. It is a question of choosing the best of two evils - in another Muslim country or in a Jewish nation.

The UN and a majority of the member nations want land to be held available for the creation of a Palestinian state. Many times the US has been the lone dissenting vote any UN Security Council condemning Israel for its actions. The never-ending conflict, I believe, is a persistent problem in creating bitterness in East - West relations. A negotiated settlement is available, one that could satisfy all parties to the conflict. All countries who have influence over either waring faction should put maximum pressure to settle the conflict. I include not only the US influence over Israel but also Iran's apparent influence with the Palestinians.