Large Hadron Collider

Pandora

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I have been waiting for a long time for them to turn this on. They are trying to find the God particle. They want to re create what was here right after the big bang (assuming you believe that there was anything big that banged)



Two Russian scientists think it will create black holes that will enable time travel. So many theories, all of them interesting to me.





Does anyone have any thoughts about it?





http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,24328608-5014239,00.html
 
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The belief by some that black holes equate to time travel is only a hypothesis.

I do personally think that if the collider does eventually supply concrete evidence that supports the Big Bang Theory, there will be a huge amount of turmoil and severe agitation amongst Theists.
 
Will take up to 5 years They were saying today it will take up to 5 years until the thing is ramped up to ramming speed.... that's when the real science starts getting done!

Anyone taking Hawking's bet?

I dont believe in the big bang so I dont think the God particle does not exist.

But I do think that interesting things will happen with this Collider.
 
I have been waiting for a long time for them to turn this on. They are trying to find the God particle. They want to re create what was here right after the big bang (assuming you believe that there was anything big that banged)



Two Russian scientists think it will create black holes that will enable time travel. So many theories, all of them interesting to me.





Does anyone have any thoughts about it?





http://www.news.com.au/comments/0,23600,24328608-5014239,00.html

The BBC has put together some useful information on this, which you'll find HERE.

Regardless of how long Earth has actually been around, regardless of whether there was a random "big bang" creation or a controlled creation, regardless of whether this thing is going to serve any purpose or herald the end of life as we know it, one thing remains true: Over a given period of time, the past scientific intellectuals become viewed as quaint, out-dated, or down right primitive. While scientists today respect the great pioneers of the past, for the most part they still seem to view them as intellectually unsophisticated and inferior.

That said, it will probably remain true the same will be said in the future. If one side isn't right and the Christian Last Day theorists are wrong. If another side isn't right and the Christian Last Day theorists are right. If both sides are wrong, and we just simply blow ourselves to Hell in a hand basket in some way, or a meteor sends us the way of the dinosaur, etc. Another 50 years, 100 years, 500 years will show our superior intelligence today sadly inadequate and pathetically naive.

A great example of really smart guys getting together and deciding to do something really unprecedented gave us Nagasaki and Hiroshima. It also gave us the plague of the Asian Lady Bug Beetle, unleashed primarily by Jimmy Carter...;)
 
Will take up to 5 years They were saying today it will take up to 5 years until the thing is ramped up to ramming speed.... that's when the real science starts getting done!

Anyone taking Hawking's bet?

I've heard and seen reports of an estimated 4-7 year time frame to get to the actual particulate collision goal. It does make one wonder where we're heading with all this...

As a Christian, I've always believed there are a few things that God simply will not allow us to do. One is actually creating life - not like cloning a sheep, but something requiring a soul that defines us in the image of God. Another is actually going far enough into space to colonize other planets.

And one is that mankind will not be allowed to destroy the planet in any manner that will impede God's plans. I guess time will tell...
 
I've heard and seen reports of an estimated 4-7 year time frame to get to the actual particulate collision goal. It does make one wonder where we're heading with all this...

As a Christian, I've always believed there are a few things that God simply will not allow us to do. One is actually creating life - not like cloning a sheep, but something requiring a soul that defines us in the image of God. Another is actually going far enough into space to colonize other planets.

And one is that mankind will not be allowed to destroy the planet in any manner that will impede God's plans. I guess time will tell...

I think I would agree with that. I don't consider myself Chrisitan but I believe in all the same books a Christian does and then a few more :)

I agree the only way we could blow ourselves up is if that was part of the original plan.


I am interested in the second one you said about going far enough in to space to colonize other planets. Why do you think that? I dont disagree or agree I just never thought of that being an issue in devine things.
 
I think I would agree with that. I don't consider myself Chrisitan but I believe in all the same books a Christian does and then a few more :)

I agree the only way we could blow ourselves up is if that was part of the original plan.


I am interested in the second one you said about going far enough in to space to colonize other planets. Why do you think that? I dont disagree or agree I just never thought of that being an issue in devine things.

I certainly don't have all the answers, all the hows and whys. But I do know what I believe, and have found enough evidence to satisfy my own skepticism that we part of a (the) Creation Event. (My titling...)

Holding the Biblical account in whole, that we are created in God's image, that we fell from full fellowship and allowed evil full access to this world, it follows as logic for me that a God beyond our scope of understanding in intelligence, wisdom and power would not allow us beyond the confines of our world which he has formed and/or modified to sustain us.

An analogy would be, like the Biblical rendition, a leper colony. Leprosy is contagious, though not highly so. Lepers were confined to their colony, where they often freely lived and developed their own sub-culture. Aside from the often horrific aspects of their disease, they had a shadow of normal life. But they could not leave. They were not allowed to venture outside the colony due to the risk of contaminating the larger population.

And the human race is analogous to the lepers, as sin is to the leprosy.
 
I certainly don't have all the answers, all the hows and whys. But I do know what I believe, and have found enough evidence to satisfy my own skepticism that we part of a (the) Creation Event. (My titling...)

Holding the Biblical account in whole, that we are created in God's image, that we fell from full fellowship and allowed evil full access to this world, it follows as logic for me that a God beyond our scope of understanding in intelligence, wisdom and power would not allow us beyond the confines of our world which he has formed and/or modified to sustain us.

An analogy would be, like the Biblical rendition, a leper colony. Leprosy is contagious, though not highly so. Lepers were confined to their colony, where they often freely lived and developed their own sub-culture. Aside from the often horrific aspects of their disease, they had a shadow of normal life. But they could not leave. They were not allowed to venture outside the colony due to the risk of contaminating the larger population.

And the human race is analogous to the lepers, as sin is to the leprosy.

Ah that is interesting. Thank you for explaining.


do you believe there is other life out there unlike ours? I think there is though I think they would have the same Creator we have, I dont guess they have the same history of sin and redemption or even being made in His image.
 
Ah that is interesting. Thank you for explaining.


do you believe there is other life out there unlike ours? I think there is though I think they would have the same Creator we have, I dont guess they have the same history of sin and redemption or even being made in His image.

I hope this isn't taken wrong. While I believe that the Bible is the very Word of God, I do not believe that it has all the answers. It is the part of the story that God knows we need for a variety of reasons, but also doesn't give us all the answers, leaving plenty for us to wonder about and stretch our imaginations. Like this LHC. Like putting a man on the moon. Like exploring the depths of the ocean, and being able to read the movements of the earth, etc. So the imagination gets a chance to get involved on this issue.

I believe it would be arrogant of us to assume that there is no other life out there, with the understanding we hold of time and space. As much imagination that man has shown through the ages, how much more could a mind have that is so far beyond our ability to comprehend? Again, the Bible says that we are unique in all creation. So I'd guess that in some sense we are incredibly special to God.

Like us or not, fallen or in maintained fellowship, I just don't see any reason why God would allow contact.
 
I hope this isn't taken wrong. While I believe that the Bible is the very Word of God, I do not believe that it has all the answers. It is the part of the story that God knows we need for a variety of reasons, but also doesn't give us all the answers, leaving plenty for us to wonder about and stretch our imaginations. Like this LHC. Like putting a man on the moon. Like exploring the depths of the ocean, and being able to read the movements of the earth, etc. So the imagination gets a chance to get involved on this issue.

I believe it would be arrogant of us to assume that there is no other life out there, with the understanding we hold of time and space. As much imagination that man has shown through the ages, how much more could a mind have that is so far beyond our ability to comprehend? Again, the Bible says that we are unique in all creation. So I'd guess that in some sense we are incredibly special to God.

Like us or not, fallen or in maintained fellowship, I just don't see any reason why God would allow contact.


I would agree we are a unique in all of creation.
 
As a Christian, I've always believed there are a few things that God simply will not allow us to do. One is actually creating life - not like cloning a sheep, but something requiring a soul that defines us in the image of God. Another is actually going far enough into space to colonize other planets....
....funny you should say that, I read Hawkin's book "Brief History of Time" - or it could have been a Kip Thorn book!!??........anyway one of them was commenting on the theological angle that some mysteries will never be answered; such as what existed prior to the "Big Bang" etc.. Whilst there is science there has to be something which is just....well....unanswerable :)

I'm not a believer in God but quite happily accept that science and faith can quite simply co-exist as sometines faith can point those that are willing to reason to abstract solutions that empirical science cannot answer. I suppose to some extent this LHC is unravelling more layers of the scientific onion but that onion is not going to give up its secrets to easily or to quickly, so there's still hope for faith.....as it were :D
 
I've heard and seen reports of an estimated 4-7 year time frame to get to the actual particulate collision goal. It does make one wonder where we're heading with all this...

As a Christian, I've always believed there are a few things that God simply will not allow us to do. One is actually creating life - not like cloning a sheep, but something requiring a soul that defines us in the image of God. Another is actually going far enough into space to colonize other planets.

And one is that mankind will not be allowed to destroy the planet in any manner that will impede God's plans. I guess time will tell...

I hope it takes longer than 4 years, it would be a little disturbing otherwise if one has read the various hypotheses regarding 'great change' in the future.

Hate to be all gloom and doom, but the Mayan Calender ends in 2012, could this be a sign? ;)
 
I hope it takes longer than 4 years, it would be a little disturbing otherwise if one has read the various hypotheses regarding 'great change' in the future.

Hate to be all gloom and doom, but the Mayan Calender ends in 2012, could this be a sign? ;)

Dang I want it yesterday. I am ready for something new. I am super excited about 2012 the collider and anything else that shakes stuff up.
 
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Hackers attack Large Hadron Collider

By Roger Highfield, Science Editor
Last Updated: 2:01pm BST 12/09/2008


Hackers have mounted an attack on the Large Hadron Collider, raising concerns about the security of the biggest experiment in the world as it passes an important new milestone.

The scientists behind the £4.4bn atom smasher had already received threatening emails and been besieged by telephone calls from worried members of the public concerned by speculation that the machine could trigger a black hole to swallow the earth, or earthquakes and tsunamis, despite endless reassurances to the contrary from the likes of Prof Stephen Hawking.

Now it has emerged that, as the first particles were circulating in the machine near Geneva, a Greek group had hacked into the facility and displayed a page with the headline "GST: Greek Security Team."

The people responsible signed off: "We are 2600 - dont mess with us. (sic)"

The website - cmsmon.cern.ch - can no longer be accessed by the public as a result of the attack.

Scientists working at Cern, the organisation that runs the vast smasher, were worried about what the hackers could do because they were "one step away" from the computer control system of one of the huge detectors of the machine, a vast magnet that weighs 12,500 tons, measuring around 21 metres in length and 15 metres wide/high.

If they had hacked into a second computer network, they could have turned off parts of the vast detector and, said the insider, "it is hard enough to make these things work if no one is messing with it."

Fortunately, only one file was damaged but one of the scientists firing off emails as the CMS team fought off the hackers said it was a "scary experience".

The hackers targeted the Compact Muon Solenoid Experiment, or CMS, one of the four "eyes" of the facility that will be analysing the fallout of the Big Bang.

The CMS team of around 2,000 scientists is racing with another team that runs the Atlas detector, also at Cern, to find the Higgs particle, one that is responsible for mass.

"There seems to be no harm done. From what they can tell, it was someone making the point that CMS was hackable," said James Gillies, spokesman for Cern. "It was quickly detected."

"We have several levels of network, a general access network and a much tighter network for sensitive things that operate the LHC," said Gillies.

"We are a very visible site," he said, adding that of the 1.4 million emails sent to Cern yesterday, 98 per cent was spam.

The hacking attempt started around the time that the giant machine was about to circulate its first particles, under the spotlight of the world's media.

On Wednesday afternoon, as the world held its breath as the machine sparked up, CMS team members were scouring computers at the machine for half a dozen files uploaded by the hackers on September 9 and 10.

"We think that someone from Fermilab's Tevatron (the competing atom smasher in America) had their access details compromised," said one of the scientists working on the machine. "What happened wasn't a big deal, just goes to show people are out there always on the prowl."

The CMS team studied the files inserted by the hackers carefully before deleting, in case a "backdoor" had been installed, a means of access to the computer that bypasses security.

The system the hackers managed to access was CMSMON, which monitors the CMS software system as the vast detector takes data, during collisions between particles to study the energies and physics in the immediate aftermath of the Big Bang, which created the universe.

Cern relies on a 'defence-in-depth' strategy, separating control networks and using firewalls and complex passwords, to protect its control systems from malicious software, such as denial-of-service attacks, botnets and zombie machines, which can strike with a synchronised attack from hundreds of machines around the world.

However, there have been growing concerns about security as remote or wireless access, notebooks and USB sticks offer new possibilities for a virus or worms to enter the network, not to mention hackers and terrorists who might be interested in targeting computers to shutdown the system.

More than 110 different control systems are used at Cern. These systems monitor, supervise and safeguard Cern's accelerators, experiments and infrastructure - from buildings, electricity and heating to access control, radiation protection and safety.

To refine security methods Cern set up a working group called Computing and Network Infrastructure for Controls. One document written by the group said: "Recent events show that computer security issues are becoming a serious problem also at Cern."

However, the team said yesterday that it did not want to comment on security at the international facility.

A few years ago, Stanford University in California announced that a number of high-performance academic computer centres had been attacked by hackers lured by the phenomenal power of the grid - pools of computing power linked by dedicated high-speed networks. Beyond shutting down the machines or stealing or deleting data, one likely malicious use of such power is to crack passwords.

In 2003, hackers broke into ScotGrid, a network of 150 machines based at the University of Glasgow. They intercepted the password of a remote user based in Geneva and used it to gain access to ScotGrid. They ran scripts that tried to reconfigure the machine to steal more passwords.

The commissioning of the giant machine is making extraordinary progress.

Now that the team has managed to get beams of particles circulating stably, they must be "captured" so that the particles stay in bunches.

This has now been done with the anticlockwise beam, circulating a beam for full half an hour. Commissioning, said Gillies, "is going incredibly fast." They now hope to capture the second clockwise beam. "To give you a feel for how well these guys are doing, what happened on Wednesday was days one to four of main commissioning."

This latest step "is really a more significant achievement than Wednesday's fun and games," comments Dr David Sankey of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory, Oxfordshire.

...to be expected in this day and age I guess :rolleyes:
 
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