"liberals"

PLC1

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This post came from another forum. My responses follow it. Since there has been a lot said about "liberals", I thought it would be a good idea to air it out here:

Do you believe the following?

1.Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.
2.Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.
3.Murderers should never be put to death.
4.During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.
5.Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.
6.It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.
7.Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.
8.It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.
9.Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.
10.A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.
11.The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.
12.The present high tax rates are good.
13.Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad.
14.The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.
15.The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.
16.It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.
17.No abortions can be labeled immoral.
18.Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.
19.High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.
20.Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.
21.Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.
22.It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.
23.No culture is morally superior to any other.
Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?

1. No way.
2. Yes, and there is a huge body of research supporting bilingual education as the best route to competence in English.
3. Yes. The government shouldn't have that sort of power over anyone. How is limiting government "liberal"?
4. Hell, no!
5. ditto
6. Absolutely. Do you have to be a liberal to see that attacking a secular state in the name of fighting Islamic extremism was absurd?
7. Vouchers are a simplistic solution to a complex problem. We do need to allow parents to choose schools, and vice versa.
8. It is neither good nor bad, it just is.
9. Yes. How is my heterosexual marriage jeopardized by two gays getting married?
10. Yes, and there is a huge body of evidence that children raised in gay families are not harmed by the experience. Now, children born to single moms, that's another matter.
11. I'm a strong supporter of Boy Scouts, and the father of an Eagle Scout. so, no.
12. The present tax rates are contributing to the deficit, so no again.
13. How are those two related? What are "American values"? that one makes no sense at all.
14. I'm not sure about that one.
15. No. the UN has potential, but hasn't lived up to it yet.
16. No.
17. No.
18. No. Restaurants should be allowed to have smoking sections if they want. Customers should have the option of a non smoking restaurant. Smoking restaurants would lose the 88% of adults who don't smoke as customers. Further, you should be allowed to smoke whatever you like, as long as it is outdoors and downwind.
19. No. That is not the function of high schools.
20. No way.
21. That's baloney.
22. No.
23. No. There are some backward cultures in the world.


Now, how is it that the above 23 unrelated issues are all lumped together under one label? Somehow, that seems to me to be simplistic, naive, disingenuous, and just plain silly.
 
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Sometimes tests like this are revealing, but this test has a lot of flaws

8: I don't know what "good" means in this case. What are the percentages of each contribution?
12: The taxes are lower than ever. Why are they called high?
18: This question is outdated. I have not seen a restaurant in ages that even allows smoking.
20: Nowadays everyone has to go through the same procedures with no exceptions when I travel.
21: There are really three questions: racism, poverty, no fathers. no, yes, yes

Anyway, I got 9 no; 8 yes; 1 no opinion; and 5 are not questions that can be answered as stated.
That test says I am slightly right of center. Other tests I have taken put me half way between middle and far left.
 
This post came from another forum. My responses follow it. Since there has been a lot said about "liberals", I thought it would be a good idea to air it out here:



1. No way.
2. Yes, and there is a huge body of research supporting bilingual education as the best route to competence in English.
3. Yes. The government shouldn't have that sort of power over anyone. How is limiting government "liberal"?
4. Hell, no!
5. ditto
6. Absolutely. Do you have to be a liberal to see that attacking a secular state in the name of fighting Islamic extremism was absurd?
7. Vouchers are a simplistic solution to a complex problem. We do need to allow parents to choose schools, and vice versa.
8. It is neither good nor bad, it just is.
9. Yes. How is my heterosexual marriage jeopardized by two gays getting married?
10. Yes, and there is a huge body of evidence that children raised in gay families are not harmed by the experience. Now, children born to single moms, that's another matter.
11. I'm a strong supporter of Boy Scouts, and the father of an Eagle Scout. so, no.
12. The present tax rates are contributing to the deficit, so no again.
13. How are those two related? What are "American values"? that one makes no sense at all.
14. I'm not sure about that one.
15. No. the UN has potential, but hasn't lived up to it yet.
16. No.
17. No.
18. No. Restaurants should be allowed to have smoking sections if they want. Customers should have the option of a non smoking restaurant. Smoking restaurants would lose the 88% of adults who don't smoke as customers. Further, you should be allowed to smoke whatever you like, as long as it is outdoors and downwind.
19. No. That is not the function of high schools.
20. No way.
21. That's baloney.
22. No.
23. No. There are some backward cultures in the world.


Now, how is it that the above 23 unrelated issues are all lumped together under one label? Somehow, that seems to me to be simplistic, naive, disingenuous, and just plain silly.

My turn. . .This was fun!

1.Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.
No. Although at one time in the past, it may have been useful to “get the ball rolling!”

2.Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America.
YES. . .actually, bilingual education should be applied for EVERYONE, not just children of immigrants. The ability to speak two languages is good for everyone and for America.
3.Murderers should never be put to death.
Not necessarily, but there need to be more safeguard to assure that only the most extreme (and totally without doubt) multiple murderers are put to death. There have been too many mistakes and innocents have died.

4.During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze.
Nuclear arm raised didn’t benefit anyone except for the defense industry. As the bombing of Japan demonstrated, ONE nuclear bomb is enough to put make anyone think twice about continuing a war.

5.Colleges should not allow ROTC programs.
I don’t care. It think it should be left up to the individual colleges administration with the student body having a vote in it.

6.It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War.
Defending Kuwait was not “wrong!” However, the second Iraq war was totally unwarranted and based on lies and the defense industry’s need for more “demand” for their killing machine

7.Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools.
Poor parents should have as much right as anyone to send their children to private schools. .but vouchers usually are not enough to allow them to do that. So, I would think that the answer would be more into improving the whole education system rather than “throwing the baby away with the bath water!”

8.It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party.
No, it is not good that they are the TWO BIGGEST contributors to the Democratic party. . .I would prefer for EVERYONE to contribute to the Democratic party. BUT, I prefer to have trial lawyers and teachers unions as contributors than the Koch Brothers or the defense industry!

9.Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people.
ABSOLUTELY! That’s a no-brainer!

10.A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women.
Absolutely! Children waiting to be adopted need a home and parents who want them. Whether it is two men, two women, a man and a woman, or even a single parent is much less important than the fact that they are wanted and loved, and don’t have to spend the rest of their childhood in foster care!

11.The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings.
I don’t care! However, the Boy Scouts should be taught that diversity is GOOD, and that includes teaching them a tolerant (at the least) toward homosexuality.

12.The present high tax rates are good.
Is that a joke? What “present high tax rates?” The PRESENT tax rates are the lowest for the last 70 years! And, no, they are not good since, associated with huge defense spending, they drove us to this economic recession!

13.Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad.
Okay. .don’t know what “speech codes” are, but then again, can anyone agree on what “American values” are? If it is “Christian religion” and “anti-gay” attitude. . . I don’t think those are true “American value.”

14.The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent.
What does that mean? That if one is more “moral” than the other, one has more “right” to defend its country than the other? I do not believe that “religion” of any kind makes one more or less moral than someone else. There are good “moral” and poor “moral” in every race, country, and religion.

15.The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court.
Subservient? What a weird word to apply to this. NO one needs to be “subservient,” but one needs to decide if they PARTICIPATE or not in an organization. If they do, they need to be an integral part of it, and follow the rules. (this is the exact type of “leading” question with a “trigger word” that would automatically make people say “NO” without even thinking!)

16.It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas.
Again: A leading question that is worded in a way to get a “NO” answer! Now, let’s rephrase this: IT IS GOOD that colleges have allowed women to participate in competitive sports on an equal basis with men. YES. IT IS. If this means than less money is available for the “male only” sports. . .too bad! That issue should be dealt with as an economic, not a gender issue!

17.No abortions can be labeled immoral.
I do not agree! Abortions used solely as a form of “birth control” are not acceptable. However, I do not believe this is often the case. And it will become LESS of the case once the Religious right finally agrees to sex education and now that any insured woman has access to FREE birth control!

18.Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section.
Restaurants should be non-smoking only. I know I will walk out of a restaurant where I can smell cigarette smoke! And I make that fact know to EVERY restaurant who still allows smoking on their premises!
19.High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them.
Absolutely! The old “banana” trick works great as a teaching tool!

20.Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male.
Racial profiling is wrong, ineffective, and can create more terrorists (or at least angry people) due to resentment. By the way, half of the more recent terrorists do not meet the “profile” of a young Saudi male. . .because they were not!

21.Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city.
Racism and poverty, which lead to violent (and non-violent) crimes in the inner city, thus take many fathers away to jail, leaving their offspring even poorer, and without guidance are responsible for much of the crime in inner cities. This question, once again is unfair as it makes you choose between reasons that are very much interconnected!
Now, what’s the excuse in upper class White neighborhood? Intolerance, entitlement and arrogance? Spoiled children who have no respect for their father’s “values?”

22.It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation.
I don’t think it is wrong, and it shouldn’t be unconstitutional. . .as LONG AS everyone understands that the GOD who will bless you doesn’t necessary answer to the image of a “CHRISTIAN” God, but is a universal God, who has many images, and many names. As long as, no one minds if someone gets up and answers: “Allah blesses you too!”

23.No culture is morally superior to any other.
Yep. I do believe that! Although, individual people may be morally superior or inferior to the other people who share the same culture.

Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?
Many of those that are worded properly. . .which isn’t many! Obviously this “test” was written by a conservative in an attempt to confuse issues and make fun of liberals!
Well, here is a liberal who is proud to be one!
 
The list is from the Great Dennis Prager. You libs should listen to him. You would learn a great deal.

And, that list outlines many opinions held by some on the left, which prove their mental instability.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1390257/posts.

Why would "some on the left" hold the same views on unrelated matters? What about the rest "on the left", do they believe the opposite?

You seem to include me among "those on the left". Did you read my responses?
 
Why would "some on the left" hold the same views on unrelated matters? What about the rest "on the left", do they believe the opposite?

You seem to include me among "those on the left". Did you read my responses?

Do you deny that many on the Left hold those views? Not all lefties think alike. Some have kooky political views than others.

You do hold many left wing views. Do you deny this too?
 
My turn. . .This was fun!

1.Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color.
No. Although at one time in the past, it may have been useful to “get the ball rolling!”...

Lets just go with the first one, shall we? The others all have at least two sides to them too, but lets just use one a demonstration.

Should standards be lowered? No. Should standards be made appropriate to the jobs? Yes. When the job requires stamina, athletic ability, and the ability to persevere in tough going, lets not have tests on vocabulary, geography, and history. Also, once the candidates have passed the required standards, they have passed the required standards. At that point one can use other criteria to make the selections. Having a social criteria of trying to right past wrongs is not a bad choice. Otherwise there is just no way that those who have been wronged can ever catch up. We do have a responsibility for our history. Like it or not, America is not here for the benefit of the white man. Like it or not, the white man did enslave the black man. Like it or not, that wrong has to be righted.
 
Lets just go with the first one, shall we? The others all have at least two sides to them too, but lets just use one a demonstration.

Should standards be lowered? No. Should standards be made appropriate to the jobs? Yes. When the job requires stamina, athletic ability, and the ability to persevere in tough going, lets not have tests on vocabulary, geography, and history. Also, once the candidates have passed the required standards, they have passed the required standards. At that point one can use other criteria to make the selections. Having a social criteria of trying to right past wrongs is not a bad choice. Otherwise there is just no way that those who have been wronged can ever catch up. We do have a responsibility for our history. Like it or not, America is not here for the benefit of the white man. Like it or not, the white man did enslave the black man. Like it or not, that wrong has to be righted.

Yep! You're a lot more thorough in your answer, and as usual, full of commons sense!
 
Why would "some on the left" hold the same views on unrelated matters? What about the rest "on the left", do they believe the opposite?

You seem to include me among "those on the left". Did you read my responses?


I think you're a pretty fair and balanced person, so it is normal (as in healthy!) that you would agree on at least some of the left views. . .after all, it hasn't been that long since what is considered "left" today, was considered center, leaning conservative!

It's not because the extreme right is becoming more extreme every month that the whole "reason" and "logic" need to be thrown away!
 
My turn. . .This was fun!

1.
...
...
23.
Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?
Many of those that are worded properly. . .which isn’t many! Obviously this “test” was written by a conservative in an attempt to confuse issues and make fun of liberals!
Well, here is a liberal who is proud to be one!
You didn't tally up your score! How many yes and how many no? I want to know how liberal you are and how you would rate yourself aside from what the test results give.
 
1.Standards for admissions to universities, fire departments, etc. should be lowered for people of color. No, that needs to end. Also lowering for women and other minorities needs to end.

2.Bilingual education for children of immigrants, rather than immersion in English, is good for them and for America. NO. I worked in a bilingual school and now I work in an immersion school and I see so much better results in the immersion school. The bilingual school was spanish, easy stuff compared to the Japanese immersion Yet the Japanese immersion students do better than the bilingual students did. I also know Russian people who came here speaking zero english and learned it almost perfectly in less than 4 years and I have relatives born here and older than I am that still speak very broken english or little english because they stay in Latino communities and don't have to learn it.


3.Murderers should never be put to death. I agree. Unless we are talking about someone like Ted Bundy who kept escaping and committing more murders. He had to be put to death. Though I would have rather seen him locked in a cage chained by his leg so he could not escape.


4.During the Cold War, America should have adopted a nuclear arms freeze. NO

5.Colleges should not allow ROTC programs. Of course they should allow it, those idiots would be the first ones screaming for protection if attacked. Well the ones who didn't volunteer to be human shield an-ways

6.It was wrong to wage war against Saddam Hussein in the Gulf War. NO not wrong but it would have been a lot easier for us all if we never went. Until they were too strong to stop that is..

7.Poor parents should not be allowed to have vouchers to send their children to private schools. Yes we should, if we pay taxes to education we deserve to have a say in where our kids go. I work in public schools I see how they run from the inside out and Yes I would like a voucher!

8.It is good that trial lawyers and teachers unions are the two biggest contributors to the Democratic Party. Not good, but only because we will never get reform as long as dems have power. I would like reform in both public education and Tort reform.

9.Marriage should be redefined from male-female to any two people. Marriage should be the business of the people getting married and the stinking government should get their noses out of it.

10.A married couple should not have more of a right to adopt a child than two men or two women. First the child should be placed in a traditional house hold if one is available and if none can be found then single parents or homosexual parents but we should offer the "norm" when possible.

11.The Boy Scouts should not be allowed to use parks or any other public places and should be prohibited from using churches and synagogues for their meetings. The boy scouts should have the same rights as any other group and liberals need to get over their hate for the boy scouts and the tea party.

12.The present high tax rates are good. The present taxes are terrible. The whole system is terrible. There should be no income tax, but instead a sales tax. Then the hookers, drug dealers, illegals all pay and it should be a flat rate. Everyone pays 5% or 10% and no loop holes. The evil rich still pay more in this scenario so libs don't get your panties in a bunch.

13.Speech codes on college campuses are good and American values are bad. I don't get this one but the America bad part I disagree with.

14.The Israelis and Palestinians are morally equivalent. They are both people so yeah morally equivalent, but the land is Israel's and no they should not be driven into the sea

15.The United Nations is a moral force for good in the world, and therefore America should be subservient to it and such international institutions as a world court. The UN is a joke, a frakin JOKE! They should be abolished.

16.It is good that colleges have dropped hundreds of men's sports teams in order to meet gender-based quotas. No, it's sad. I have a daughter who is very into sports and this rule helps her but its wrong. They cut football to make girls sports, so parents hold fundraisers for football. Maybe all sports should be privately funded and the ones people have interest in will succeed and the ones no one likes wont. Let the market decide

17.No abortions can be labeled immoral. And two plus 2 really does equal 5 Winston! Actually its rare that an abortion is moral but I wont say impossible.

18.Restaurants should be prohibited by law from allowing customers to choose between a smoking and a non-smoking section. Restaurants should be able to have smoking and non, they should be able to have any rules they want and if they are bad rules no one will eat there and they will close, if they are good rules they will have a chain in a year.

19.High schools should make condoms available to students and teach them how to use them. NO! They should STOP giving out condoms to the kids, You always know when they were doing sex ed and it was hand out the condom day, they take the condoms to the grade school next door and fling them all over the playground. It is not the governments job or the teachers job to sexualize our kids.

20.Racial profiling for terrorists is wrong -- a white American grandmother should as likely be searched as a Saudi young male. Profile who is most likely to commit the crime like Israel does. They are a success story.

21.Racism and poverty -- not a lack of fathers and a crisis of values -- are the primary causes of violent crime in the inner city. Again 2 plus 2 really does equal 5 Winston! Lack of fathers (due to government welfare rules) and lack of personal responsibility is the problem.

22.It is wrong and unconstitutional for students to be told, "God bless you" at their graduation. Only in 1984

23.No culture is morally superior to any other. Untrue Non cannibalistic cultures are morally superior to cannibalistic cultures.
Those are all liberal positions. How many of them do you hold?


I only had one that I agreed with liberals :) I must be uber conservative :)
 
You didn't tally up your score! How many yes and how many no? I want to know how liberal you are and how you would rate yourself aside from what the test results give.


I wasn't able to answer "YES or NO" to many of those questions, as I thought many were "leading" and totally biased, to the point they didn't make sense (like "double bind" type).

But I see myself as (on a scale of 1 to 100, with 1 being extreme conservative to 100 being extreme liberal) a 75 or 80.
 
Do you deny that many on the Left hold those views?

Nope.

So do some "on the right".

Not all lefties think alike.

Exactly what I've been saying all along.

Some have kooky political views than others.

Yes, as do some "on the right", who identify themselves as "conservatives."

You do hold many left wing views. Do you deny this too?

I'm quite proud of my views, whether they are identified as "right" or "left".
 
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