Michael Moore/"Sicko"; RIGHT, About Health-Care!!!

[Mr. Shaman]

....and, the former-Head Of Public Relations for CIGNA (one of the nation's largest insurers) tells Bill Moyers WHY!!!!​

BILL MOYERS: So then why are you speaking out now?

WENDELL POTTER: I didn't intend to, until it became really clear to me that the industry is resorting to the same tactics they've used over the years, and particularly back in the early '90s, when they were leading the effort to kill the Clinton plan.

BILL MOYERS: But during this 15 years you were there, did you go to them and say, "You know, I think we're on the wrong side. I think we're fighting the wrong people here."

WENDELL POTTER: You know, I didn't, because for most of the time I was there, I felt that what we were doing was the right thing. And that I was playing on a team that was honorable. I just didn't really get it all that much until toward the end of my tenure at CIGNA.

BILL MOYERS: What did you see?

WENDELL POTTER: Well, I was beginning to question what I was doing as the industry shifted from selling primarily managed care plans, to what they refer to as consumer-driven plans. And they're really plans that have very high deductibles, meaning that they're shifting a lot of the cost off health care from employers and insurers, insurance companies, to individuals. And a lot of people can't even afford to make their co-payments when they go get care, as a result of this. But it really took a trip back home to Tennessee for me to see exactly what is happening to so many Americans. I--

BILL MOYERS: When was this?

WENDELL POTTER: This was in July of 2007.

BILL MOYERS: You were still working for CIGNA?

WENDELL POTTER: I was. I went home, to visit relatives. And I picked up the local newspaper and I saw that a health care expedition was being held a few miles up the road, in Wise, Virginia. And I was intrigued.

BILL MOYERS: So you drove there?

WENDELL POTTER: I did. I borrowed my dad's car and drove up 50 miles up the road to Wise, Virginia. It was being held at a Wise County Fairground. I took my camera. I took some pictures. It was a very cloudy, misty day, it was raining that day, and I walked through the fairground gates. And I didn't know what to expect. I just assumed that it would be, you know, like a health-- booths set up and people just getting their blood pressure checked and things like that.

But what I saw were doctors who were set up to provide care in animal stalls. Or they'd erected tents, to care for people. I mean, there was no privacy. In some cases-- and I've got some pictures of people being treated on gurneys, on rain-soaked pavement.

And I saw people lined up, standing in line or sitting in these long, long lines, waiting to get care. People drove from South Carolina and Georgia and Kentucky, Tennessee-- all over the region, because they knew that this was being done. A lot of them heard about it from word of mouth.

There could have been people and probably were people that I had grown up with. They could have been people who grew up at the house down the road, in the house down the road from me. And that made it real to me.

BILL MOYERS: You were also involved in the campaign by the industry to discredit Michael Moore and his film "Sicko" in 2007. In that film Moore went to several countries around the world, and reported that their health care system was better than our health care system, in particular, Canada and England.

WENDELL POTTER: I thought that he hit the nail on the head with his movie. But the industry, from the moment that the industry learned that Michael Moore was taking on the health care industry, it was really concerned.

BILL MOYERS: What were they afraid of?

WENDELL POTTER: They were afraid that people would believe Michael Moore.

BILL MOYERS: We obtained a copy of the game plan that was adopted by the industry's trade association, AHIP. And it spells out the industry strategies in gold letters. It says, "Highlight horror stories of government-run systems." What was that about?

WENDELL POTTER: The industry has always tried to make Americans think that government-run systems are the worst thing that could possibly happen to them, that if you even consider that, you're heading down on the slippery slope towards socialism. So they have used scare tactics for years and years and years, to keep that from happening. If there were a broader program like our Medicare program, it could potentially reduce the profits of these big companies. So that is their biggest concern.

They spend about 20 cents of every premium dollar on overhead, which is administrative expense or profit. So they don't want to compete against a more efficient competitor.

BILL MOYERS: You told Congress that the industry has hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street. You said, "I saw how they confuse their customers and dump the sick, all so they can satisfy their Wall Street investors." How do they satisfy their Wall Street investors?

 

[Pandora]

Below is a story about our wonderful Oregon Government "free" health care....

Older people are doomed if Government health care is passed.

Health plan covers assisted suicide but not new cancer treatment
SPRINGFIELD, Ore. -- Barbara Wagner has one wish - for more time.

"I'm not ready, I'm not ready to die," the Springfield woman said. "I've got things I'd still like to do."

Her doctor offered hope in the new chemotherapy drug Tarceva, but the Oregon Health Plan sent her a letter telling her the cancer treatment was not approved.

Instead, the letter said, the plan would pay for comfort care, including "physician aid in dying," better known as assisted suicide.

"I told them, I said, 'Who do you guys think you are?' You know, to say that you'll pay for my dying, but you won't pay to help me possibly live longer?' " Wagner said.


http://www.kval.com/news/26140519.html

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Clipped from Pandora's article:
"We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."
Patients like Wagner can appeal a decision if they are denied coverage. Wagner appealed twice but lost both times.
However, her doctors contacted the pharmaceutical company, Genentech, which agreed to give her the medication without charging her. Doctors said that is unusual for a company to give away such an expensive medication.

Sometimes it really pays to read the entire article and with all things that pertain to the medical/prescription companies...don't leave any stone unturned and never - ever take the first denial of coverages as the written in stone answer...keep trying and keep asking!!! Stories such as this headline are currently flooding our media air ways paid by the major medical providers such as Blue Cross & Blue Shield/Cigna/Humana etc., etc., etc.,
They scare the masses into running the other direction when it comes to the 'CHANGES' in health care and with WHOM the 'big profiteering major medical coverages' will have to answer too...it worked for these big profiteering corporations back in the 90's and now they are doing the 'SCARE TACTICS ONCE AGAIN...DO NOT BE SHEEPLE AND BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!

 

[Pandora]

The woman was denied treatment, we as Oregon tax payers pay a great deal of money for this stupid program that is not working.

With enough people writing letters and protesting, eventually the state will give her treatment and that is a good thing.


The point is, we are paying a great deal as Oregon tax payers for this program that has us deep in debt and the program is not working in a way people would and should expect it to work.

 

[Pandora]

Sometimes it really pays to read the entire article and with all things that pertain to the medical/prescription companies...don't leave any stone unturned and never - ever take the first denial of coverages as the written in stone answer...keep trying and keep asking!!! Stories such as this headline are currently flooding our media air ways paid by the major medical providers such as Blue Cross & Blue Shield/Cigna/Humana etc., etc., etc.,
They scare the masses into running the other direction when it comes to the 'CHANGES' in health care and with WHOM the 'big profiteering major medical coverages' will have to answer too...it worked for these big profiteering corporations back in the 90's and now they are doing the 'SCARE TACTICS ONCE AGAIN...DO NOT BE SHEEPLE AND BELIEVE THE HYPE!!!

nice to see you highlighted something important. The EVIL pharmaceutical company gave her something for free because the pathetic oregon "free" government health care denied her anything but help with suicide.

thats one for the "evil" pharmaceutical company and 0 for the government

 

[Pandora]

In reguards to your lovely message with your "attempt at" negative rep....

From Dottie ...."you are obviously sooo clueless about how much the pharmaceutical dole out for free to anyone that asks for help...but just continue on with your ignorance, you wear it well"

I never said the pharmaceuticals dole out a whole lot of anything. I said in THIS case, when the "free" healthcare offered by my state at a HUGE cost to us tax payers refused to help the woman except to pay for her to die. In THIS ONE case, the pharmaceutical company was the one to come to the womans aid, NOT the pathetic government who over taxes us for the "free" health care.

on a side note, thank you again for your wonderful insults, its been almost 3 days without a personal attack from you... I was worried you were not feeling yourself.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

why is it people post stories about someone told they cant get some health care program done...as if that shows the goverment is horrible at it....and will kill them all...yet cant wrap it around there head that Insurance companies do that evry day, all the time?

 

[Pandora]

why is it people post stories about someone told they cant get some health care program done...as if that shows the goverment is horrible at it....and will kill them all...yet cant wrap it around there head that Insurance companies do that evry day, all the time?

If private insurance does it without making you or I pay for it, does that make it ok for government insurance to do it while making you and I pay for it?

Why must those who want government health care get upset when someone shows them cases where government health care did not work.

I know of no one saying things are perfect or should not be changed. We are just saying the alternative option here has problems of its own, and those who seem to want it get mad, upset, defensive when anyone brings up the fact that where its been tried it has not worked.

why cant the two sides get together and find a third option that works

 

[samsara15]

If health costs keep rising like they have been, many people will no longer be able to afford them. Most Canadians I have talked to consider the Canandian plan to be working fairly well, and we encounter Canadians quite often in our travels. Doctors and hospitals need to do more themselves to contain costs.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

In reguards to your lovely message with your "attempt at" negative rep....

Grow up 'BIB' you created the tit 4 tat and now you whine like a stuck pig when anyone nails you for your 'rather' thoughtless posts...WAAAAAA

From Dottie ...."you are obviously sooo clueless about how much the pharmaceutical dole out for free to anyone that asks for help...but just continue on with your ignorance, you wear it well"

Yep, I stand by what I said and you continual cut & paste just proves my point...TY 'BIB'

I never said the pharmaceuticals dole out a whole lot of anything. I said in THIS case, when the "free" healthcare offered by my state at a HUGE cost to us tax payers refused to help the woman except to pay for her to die. In THIS ONE case, the pharmaceutical company was the one to come to the womans aid, NOT the pathetic government who over taxes us for the "free" health care.

No, but here you are again...reinstating the 'FACT' that you are clueless about what the pharmaceuticals do provide and what they have been providing for years...they gouge Americans and provide the same exact thing to Canada cheaper then they are selling/marketing to US the Americans. IF you are soooo unhappy with your individual states ability to stay current with the health program that they admittedly stated: "We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."
...then get off your arse and become an advocate for your local state...put your mouth to some 'GOOD USE' instead of just cherry picking a horror story for emphasis to plaster up here!!!

on a side note, thank you again for your wonderful insults, its been almost 3 days without a personal attack from you... I was worried you were not feeling yourself.

Hey, pull them big girl panties up and get real...if you can't handle a criticism then don't post...your whining about 'PEOPLE ATTACKING ME' is B.S. it's your clueless postings that garner you a 'CLUELESS AWARD' that's what adults do!

 

[Pandora]

All of your personal insults are well taken, thank you!

So, back to the topic at hand.

Are you denying that this woman was refused help by the Oregon State Government "free" medical health care that Oregon residents are forced to pay for except they are willing to have us tax payers pay for her death and calling that help?

and are you denying that a private pharmaceutical company stepped in and is giving to her for free what the State of Oregon's 'free' Governement health care refused to give her?

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

All of your personal insults are well taken, thank you!

whimper/whine/WAAAAA

So, back to the topic at hand.
Are you denying that this woman was refused help by the Oregon State Government "free" medical health care that Oregon residents are forced to pay for except they are willing to have us tax payers pay for her death and calling that help?

Nope, not at all...just trying to get the rest of the board to focus on the 'FACTS' of your highly emotional misguided cherry picking selective cut & paste from your very own article:

An unfortunate interpretation?
Dr. Som Saha, chairman of the commission that sets policy for the Oregon Health Plan, said Wagner is making an "unfortunate interpretation" of the letter and that no one is telling her the health plan will only pay for her to die.
One critic of assisted suicide calls the message disturbing nonetheless.
"People deserve relief of their suffering, not giving them an overdose," said Dr. William Toffler.
He said the state has a financial incentive to offer death instead of life: Chemotherapy drugs such as Tarceva cost $4,000 a month while drugs for assisted suicide cost less than $100.
Saha said state health officials do not consider whether it is cheaper for someone in the health plan to die than live. However, he admitted they must consider the state's limited dollars when dealing with a case such as Wagner's.
"If we invest thousands and thousands of dollars in one person's days to weeks, we are taking away those dollars from someone," Saha said.
But the medical director at the cancer center where Wagner gets her care said some people may have incredible responses to treatment.

AND THEN THIS ONE TOO:

"We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."

and yet here you are again:

BIB said: and are you denying that a private pharmaceutical company stepped in and is giving to her for free what the State of Oregon's 'free' Governement health care refused to give her?

When I clearly stated that: No, but here you are again...reinstating the 'FACT' that you are clueless about what the pharmaceuticals do provide and what they have been providing for years...they gouge Americans and provide the same exact thing to Canada cheaper then they are selling/marketing to US the Americans.

All she would have had to do was to discuss her 'non-coverage' with her pharmacist and they could have/would have provided her with the forms to get the pharmaceutical company to provide her with the specific meds at a reduced price or for 'FREE'...but as with most of your ability to misquote/misinterpret/never check for the FACTS...you bring to the forum a emotionally charge cut & selective paste about a women that did get her meds!!!

 

[Pandora]

You have no problem with Oregonians being forced to pay for "free" health care then when a person actually needs it the "free" government health care says no.. but we will pay for you to kill yourself.

You seriously have no problem with that?


Even if it were you they were offering to kill, I would have a problem with it. That is really sad.

The pharmaceutical company stepping in and helping the woman was nice but wont happen every time a person is denied.


This is not "cherrry picking" this is a case happening within 8 miles of my house, a local issue for me that is currently in the news.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

BIB Said:
You have no problem with Oregonians being forced to pay for "free" health care then when a person actually needs it the "free" government health care says no.. but we will pay for you to kill yourself.

You seriously have no problem with that?

It might behoove you to take your angst and point it towards your elected officials...since I do not know the entire reasons that this was voted on 15 years ago and as your elected officials have stated on the record: "We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."

Then you would have a 'GREAT CAUSE' to railroad some CHANGE that needs to be implemented immediately
But for you to continue to challenge me on what I have a problem with and what I do not have a problem with {your hysteria is what I have a problem with and misquoting/misrepresentation/knee jerk reactions}

I would venture to say that this may be problematic to more then just this 'lady who lives down the street from you' but now that you've got the 'bit' in your mouth away you do run without any factual knowledge or clue {heavy sigh} You react to the tiny snowflake falling out of the sky meanwhile the avalanche is about to roll over you...LMAO

 

[Pandora]

It might behoove you to take your angst and point it towards your elected officials...since I do not know the entire reasons that this was voted on 15 years ago and as your elected officials have stated on the record: "We are looking at today's ... 2008 treatment, but we're using 1993 standards," Fryefield said. "When the Oregon Health Plan was created, it was 15 years ago, and there were not all the chemotherapy drugs that there are today."

Then you would have a 'GREAT CAUSE' to railroad some CHANGE that needs to be implemented immediately
But for you to continue to challenge me on what I have a problem with and what I do not have a problem with {your hysteria is what I have a problem with and misquoting/misrepresentation/knee jerk reactions}

I would venture to say that this may be problematic to more then just this 'lady who lives down the street from you' but now that you've got the 'bit' in your mouth away you do run without any factual knowledge or clue {heavy sigh} You react to the tiny snowflake falling out of the sky meanwhile the avalanche is about to roll over you...LMAO

You seem to have no interest in taking, just attempted insults so lets not bother ok

There is no point!