No Such Thing As Separation of Church And State ?

Robert Berger

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Joined
Apr 12, 2012
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Right-wingers in America a re always saying that there is no se[paration odf church and state in the U.S. constitution. But it IS there. "Congress hsall make no law regarding the establishment of a religion" .
Don't they get it ? America is a "Christian nation" only in the sense that the majority of Americans happen to be Christian . The founding fathers were adamantly opposed to the establishment of a
theocracy in America. But too many right-wing religious jerks in America are convinced that they wanted U.S. law to be based on the Bible . WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!
While they were for th e most part Christians, some being deists, including Jefferson, they did not have the same religious views as fundamentalist and evangelical Christians today , who use all sorts
of sophistry to try to justify turning America into an evangelical Christian theocracy, or at least a
country which is rather close to one .
So they take all manner of quotes by the founding fathers out of contex or even cite completely fabricated ones to make it look as though Jefferson, Franklin,Washinton,Madison et al were
pious evangelical Christians of th e nmodern kind .
The pseudo historian David Barton is probably the worst culprit in these theological shenanagans .
Barton is just an evangelical Christian right-wing extremist moron who does not even have a degree
in history from any university or college who claims to be an authority in U.S. history .
And this arrogant little clown has a huge following among the religious right, and is the darling of
Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry and other right-wing doofuses .
For examle, he claims that the majority of the founding fathers and other early U.S. politicians has "seminary degrees", and were devout evangelicla Christians of his kind . Baloney !
In th epast, a seminary degree was simply a degree from any college or university, not a religious
school . And so on .
Remember - whenever there is no separation of church and state theocracy is inevitable.
Just look at Iran and Saudi Arabia, where there is absolutely no separation of mosque and state .
 
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Establishment refers to a state religion ala CofE in England the Kirk in Scotland RCC in Ireland and much of europe at the time

So people are frer to pursue the faith of their choosing. You may recall there were quite a lot of people who came here to escape state persecution based on that faith.

so no we dont have church officials sitting among secular leaders eith power.

but in no way prevents secular leaders from making decisions influfenced by their faith.

freedom OF religion not freedom FROM religion.
 
Great if we could prove that,,Then Churches would start paying TAXES to the IRS! Just like Europe is taxing their churches. The Pope pays Italian income tax.
 
Great if we could prove that,,Then Churches would start paying TAXES to the IRS! Just like Europe is taxing their churches. The Pope pays Italian income tax.

No he doesn't.
Italy is trying to levy taxes on church properties but the Pope does not live in Italy (he lives in the independent city-state of Vatican City) nor does he receive pay.
 
No freedom from religion? America is NOT a theocracy , and despite all the B.S. of the religious right, the founding fathers never intended
it to be one . People who are atheists and agnostics or just not religious have the right to be free from harassment by religious groups.
All Americans have the right to adhere to whatever religion they choose, but they have absolutely no right to impose their religious beliefs or ,mores on others who do not share them .
We are all supposed to keep our religious beliefs to ourselves and not impose them on others , or to try to force the government to make
laws based on our individual religious beliefs . The problem today is that so many religious conservatives are determined to do just this .
Christians who claim that America is a "VChristian nation" always use this questinable premise to demand that THEIR religious beliefs
be the one and only criteria for making laws in America . This is totally unconstittional . The constitution is the basis of laws in America,
NOT the Bible . And don't tell me the consitution is based on the Bible. It isn't .
 
No freedom from religion? America is NOT a theocracy , and despite all the B.S. of the religious right, the founding fathers never intended
it to be one . People who are atheists and agnostics or just not religious have the right to be free from harassment by religious groups.
All Americans have the right to adhere to whatever religion they choose, but they have absolutely no right to impose their religious beliefs or ,mores on others who do not share them .
We are all supposed to keep our religious beliefs to ourselves and not impose them on others , or to try to force the government to make
laws based on our individual religious beliefs . The problem today is that so many religious conservatives are determined to do just this .
Christians who claim that America is a "VChristian nation" always use this questinable premise to demand that THEIR religious beliefs
be the one and only criteria for making laws in America . This is totally unconstittional . The constitution is the basis of laws in America,
NOT the Bible . And don't tell me the consitution is based on the Bible. It isn't .

in a nutshell you are wrong on all counts."congress shall make no law.."
but look at the broght side... we are not free from being hounded by those like you !
 
I'm not trying to "hound" anyone . I'm not opposed to Christianity per se, or any other religion. What I'm opposed to are people who try to
impose their agenda on others based on theior religious beliefs . I don't want to interfere with anyone else's religious observances or their
private lives .
But when people use their religions as an excuse ot interfere with other people's rights and private lives, I am adamantly opposed to this.
I don't care what religion people adhere to as long as they keep it to themselves. Myself, I'm a non-observant, secular, agnostic Jew .
 
I'm not trying to "hound" anyone . I'm not opposed to Christianity per se, or any other religion. What I'm opposed to are people who try to
impose their agenda on others based on theior religious beliefs . I don't want to interfere with anyone else's religious observances or their
private lives .
But when people use their religions as an excuse ot interfere with other people's rights and private lives, I am adamantly opposed to this.
I don't care what religion people adhere to as long as they keep it to themselves. Myself, I'm a non-observant, secular, agnostic Jew .

and you are certainly entitled to feel as you do. just don't try to use the establishment clause for something it isn't.
 
All Americans have the right to adhere to whatever religion they choose, but they have absolutely no right to impose their religious beliefs or ,mores on others who do not share them .
Why do you believe you have a "right" to impose your secular beliefs on those who do not share them?
 
I'm not trying to "impose" my secular beliefs on anyone. What makes you think I am ? All I ask is that people keep their religions to themselves .
Is this too much to ask for? We should all just learn to live and let live . I don't want to tell you or nayone else what religion you may or may
not follow . And I don't want anyone to interfere with my secularism and try to interfere with my private life and civil rights , which is exactly
what so many religious conservatives want to do.
 
If you'd had an established Church and fought as hard as we here had to do to get rid of it, you'd understand that the separation of Church and State is extremely important.
 
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It was Thomas Jefferson who coined the term "separation of church and state." That phrase has been operative in t he US for a very long time, and for good reason. The combination of church and state, i.e., government, is a powerful force against individual liberty, as demonstrated in nations where the church and the government are combined.
 
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