Not since 1920 has the GOP ever has as many Senate Seats...

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Going Nuclear A risky (but justifiable) path to passing health care reform.

By Timothy Noah
Posted Monday, Jan. 25, 2010, at 4:52 PM ET

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Should Democrats consider "the nuclear option" for passing health reform?"Mein Führer! I can walk!"
Peter Sellers in Dr. Strangelove, just before the world ends in a nuclear conflagration
It is fundamentally absurd that the Democrats can't pass health care reform (or much else of any importance) merely because their effective Senate majority, which includes two independents, dropped from 60 to 59. Fifty-nine is a lot of Senate seats! Democrats may take the number for granted, because as recently as the 1960s and 1970s, they often controlled more than 60. But the last time the GOP controlled this many Senate seats was after the 1920 election that put Republican Warren G. Harding into the White House. If Republicans enjoyed a 59-vote majority today, they'd have no time to take seriously any opposition claim that the voters had sent "a very powerful message" by depriving them of a 60th vote. They'd be too busy turning cartwheels.
I'm not suggesting the Democrats use their partisan advantage to emulate the brazen illegal exploits of Harding's Ohio Gang. But they ought to consider the GOP's parliamentary reasoning in 2005, when it had 55 Senate seats—as large a majority as it had enjoyed in seven decades. Sen. Trent Lott, R-Miss., then-chairman of the Rules Committee, termed it "the nuclear option," but the gambit in question had, until then, gone by the less sensational name "the constitutional option." It was, and remains, a legitimate way to eliminate the filibuster by a simple majority vote.
The health care bill has already cleared the Senate, but for it to become law, either the House must pass the Senate bill without any changes (something that's not likely to happen) or both House and Senate must pass the bill again after negotiating their differences and arriving at a common bill or conference report. The problem with the latter course is that the Massachusetts special election deprived Democrats of their 60th filibuster-smashing vote. Many people, including myself, have pointed out that the requirement for a 60-vote majority (which has become ever-more routine for major legislation during the past 20 years, and especially since the Democrats retook the Senate in 2007) is anti-democratic and that the filibuster ought to be eliminated. The problem is how. Senate Rule 22, which sets the cloture majority at 60, says you need even more votes (67) to eliminate the filibuster itself through a rule change. The challenge therefore becomes finding a way to render Rule 22 itself null and void.
The nuclear option achieves that.
By whose authority do the Standing Rules of the Senate govern the Senate? By the Senate's alone. But what is the Senate, exactly? It is part of a larger entity, the Congress, that expires every two years after the entire House and one-third of the Senate stands for election. We currently have the 111th Congress. In Jan. 2011 we'll have the 112th. In Jan. 2013 we'll have the 113th. And so on. The first step in exercising the nuclear option, then, is for the president of the Senate (i.e., Vice President Joe Biden) to state, in effect, "Previous Congresses can't tell this Congress what to do. Senate Rule 22 has no force because it was never agreed to by the current Senate." Biden would then state, "Under Article I, Section 5 of the Constitution, this current Senate may 'determine the rules of its proceedings.' I say we change Rule 22 to eliminate the filibuster." Or modify it, if he wanted to opt for an intermediate reform such as a proposal by Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, to subject filibusters to a series of cloture votes that begin with a 60-vote requirement and gradually work their way down to a 51-vote requirement. Biden would then put the new rule to a simple-majority vote. After that passed, he would put the health reform conference report (or any number of other Obama initiatives currently stalled in the Senate) to a simple-majority vote.
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell got a problem with that? Too freakin' bad!
Granted, this is a slight oversimplification. For one thing, Biden might have to wait until Jan. 2011 to do all this, assuming the Senate remembered to reaffirm the Standing Rules back at the start of the 111th Congress in Jan. 2009. For another, once Biden put the rule change to a vote, the change itself would be subject to Senate debate, raising the maddening question of how to end that. He might end it by saying that in the absence of any governing cloture rule, he would follow the parliamentary norm, which favors simple majority votes. Or he might do it by declaring the filibuster itself, or at least the 60-vote cloture requirement, unconstitutional, as some believe it to be. Or some senator could raise that as a point of order. (I refer lovers of parliamentary minutiae to a 2005 report by the Congressional Research Service and a paper that appeared in the winter 2005 Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy.)
<for the rest of this story>
http://www.slate.com/id/2242559?wpisrc=newsletter

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Oh, the intrigue the insider maneuvering, the way that our political system is set to be staged, much like a top rated chess match by a couple of old chess masters...this internal workings and behind the scenes shuffling/pondering/what ifs that are going on up there at the Capitol...WOW these are not boring times with-in those antiquated walls...NO INDEED!
 
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If the Dems pass health care (as currently formulated) the Reps should accept their martyrdom, take their seats, and then repeal the bill. Whether you agree with the Senate rules or not, the fact is the only thing stopping the Dems from enacting their agenda is the fact the people don't want them to. This has more to do with style (which the people can witness) that it does with what's actually in the bill (that nobody can wade through).
 
If the Dems pass health care (as currently formulated) the Reps should accept their martyrdom, take their seats, and then repeal the bill. Whether you agree with the Senate rules or not, the fact is the only thing stopping the Dems from enacting their agenda is the fact the people don't want them to. This has more to do with style (which the people can witness) that it does with what's actually in the bill (that nobody can wade through).



I think its got a lot to do with whats in the bill as that's the part that seeks to take a big bite out of their already hurting wallets.
 
I think its got a lot to do with whats in the bill as that's the part that seeks to take a big bite out of their already hurting wallets.

Who the heck really knows what's in the thing--there is no final bill. The fact that the process is so "shady" is what's turning off all those mushy people in the middle who voted Obama in. Granted, if people had time to really know what was in the bill, support may be even lower than it is.
 
Who the heck really knows what's in the thing--there is no final bill. The fact that the process is so "shady" is what's turning off all those mushy people in the middle who voted Obama in. Granted, if people had time to really know what was in the bill, support may be even lower than it is.


Yes, it would be lower.

But you dont need to know the details to realize the cost effect. That being said, people who determine that sort of thing have already alerted us to that.
 
and what takes a realy big bite...is there health Insurance!

Hmmm--let me think. Last year my health care cost for a family of 4 was 25 times less than the taxes I paid. Sure glad I'm not considered "the rich." I'll take tax relief, thanks! My kids need enough of an education to be a net tax payer, not a tax eater. Don't want to be a burden...
 
Hmmm--let me think. Last year my health care cost for a family of 4 was 25 times less than the taxes I paid. Sure glad I'm not considered "the rich." I'll take tax relief, thanks! My kids need enough of an education to be a net tax payer, not a tax eater. Don't want to be a burden...


RISING PREMIUMS
Year Single Family

2000 $2,471 $6,438
2001 $2,689 $7,061
2002 $3,083 $8,003
2003 $3,383 $9,068
2004 $3,695 $9,950
2005 $4,024 $10,880
2006 $4,242 $11,480
2007 $4,479 $12,106
2008 $4,704 $12,680
2009 $4,824 $13,375
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation; Health Research & Educational Trust

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

So you must be way under the average,,,,or pay $334,375 just in taxes...thus I have to think you make over a million a year?

And just a note here $6,438 in 2000...13,375 in 2009..
based on that, in 2020 should be at 21,845 a year also known as more then alot of people make per year. Thank god you back the Insurance companies, after all you would not the goverment to lower that at all or provide any way to slow down those cost...

Just think if your taxes cost 6434 in 2000 and 13375 in 2009///damn you would be pissed...

2000
 
RISING PREMIUMS
Year Single Family

2000 $2,471 $6,438
2001 $2,689 $7,061
2002 $3,083 $8,003
2003 $3,383 $9,068
2004 $3,695 $9,950
2005 $4,024 $10,880
2006 $4,242 $11,480
2007 $4,479 $12,106
2008 $4,704 $12,680
2009 $4,824 $13,375
Source: Kaiser Family Foundation; Health Research & Educational Trust

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm

So you must be way under the average,,,,or pay $334,375 just in taxes...thus I have to think you make over a million a year?

And just a note here $6,438 in 2000...13,375 in 2009..
based on that, in 2020 should be at 21,845 a year also known as more then alot of people make per year. Thank god you back the Insurance companies, after all you would not the goverment to lower that at all or provide any way to slow down those cost...

Just think if your taxes cost 6434 in 2000 and 13375 in 2009///damn you would be pissed...

2000

Nobody I work with is paying the kinds of premiums you quote. Most employers pick up a sizable share of insurance costs--which could be why the drastic measures being comptemplated by this congress to fix the problem aren't so popular. National debt today was $12.3 trillion dollars, but what the heck, spend some more.

There are a lot of reasons health care costs are skyrocketing, one of which is the lack of interstate competition, and another being the lack of tort reform. Also, why does everyone think every trip to the Dr. should be free? Used to be, people would pay for their office visits, which helped keep the consumer in the loop and helped keep costs down.
 
Nobody I work with is paying the kinds of premiums you quote. Most employers pick up a sizable share of insurance costs--which could be why the drastic measures being comptemplated by this congress to fix the problem aren't so popular. National debt today was $12.3 trillion dollars, but what the heck, spend some more.

There are a lot of reasons health care costs are skyrocketing, one of which is the lack of interstate competition, and another being the lack of tort reform. Also, why does everyone think every trip to the Dr. should be free? Used to be, people would pay for their office visits, which helped keep the consumer in the loop and helped keep costs down.

Just because your job pays for it, does not mean you did not realy pay for it. And Tort Reform is a joke, states have done it, and guess what , no effect. Miss. passed very tought tort reform, has one of the highest health care costs in the nation.
 
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Nobody I work with is paying the kinds of premiums you quote. Most employers pick up a sizable share of insurance costs--which could be why the drastic measures being comptemplated by this congress to fix the problem aren't so popular. National debt today was $12.3 trillion dollars, but what the heck, spend some more.

There are a lot of reasons health care costs are skyrocketing, one of which is the lack of interstate competition, and another being the lack of tort reform. Also, why does everyone think every trip to the Dr. should be free? Used to be, people would pay for their office visits, which helped keep the consumer in the loop and helped keep costs down.

Out here in middle America...when I could afford my major medical it was $485. a/mth X 12 = $5,820. (single coverage plan if I had added my husband onto that it would have added another $250. a/mth or $3,000. per year} out of pocket a year. Well within the range for the scale that was posted by Pocket.
Not a fact that I would want everyone to suffer under, not a plan that would pay for my 6 listed pre-existing conditions and for a female that underwent a complete hysterectomy at the age of 27 for cancer...one would think that we would get deductions for those missing parts that won't grow back and won't be a problem later in life...but OH-NO we're treated like we've got the death sentence and we at a greater risk due to those surgerical procedures that were not optional...

UNFAIR :mad: IMO
 
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