Obama wants to legitimize the 20 million illegal aliens - do you agree?

[Dr.Who]

Completely false. All that is needed is to implement real ID for employees, make HUGE increases of fines for scofflaw employers - I suggest 10% of last year's profits for every illegal caught working, and greatly step up the inspectors in the few known industry employers of illegals. The failure to remove them is strictly US political interests arrayed against getting them out, nothing else.

We wouldn't even need real ID. Just make it so that employers can (since they can't now) and must report people who don't have properly filled out IC9's (?). I think that is the right form. Presently employers have employees fill out the forms but if they suspect they are wrong they are not allowed to "discriminate" and call INS. Of course a lot of employers knowingly allow/assist people to skirt the law. We need to stop that too.

 

[all_arm]

Completely false. All that is needed is to implement real ID for employees, make HUGE increases of fines for scofflaw employers - I suggest 10% of last year's profits for every illegal caught working, and greatly step up the inspectors in the few known industry employers of illegals. The failure to remove them is strictly US political interests arrayed against getting them out, nothing else.

gee, 10% for every illegal immigrant wouldn't lead to massive bankruptcy or anything, would it?

what's the difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant? some forms, waiting for years because of the crushing beauracracy of the immigration dept., a background check, and taking a test. illegal immigrants aren't BAD and to say they are is thinly veiled racism. if these people could come here, and get paid more, and get health insurance, and own a home, and not have to worry about being arrested and deported every day of their lives, they would. we don't let them.

i say let every single person who wants to come here and get a job and work hard stay for as long as they want.

 

[PLC1]

gee, 10% for every illegal immigrant wouldn't lead to massive bankruptcy or anything, would it?

what's the difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant? some forms, waiting for years because of the crushing beauracracy of the immigration dept., a background check, and taking a test. illegal immigrants aren't BAD and to say they are is thinly veiled racism. if these people could come here, and get paid more, and get health insurance, and own a home, and not have to worry about being arrested and deported every day of their lives, they would. we don't let them.

i say let every single person who wants to come here and get a job and work hard stay for as long as they want.

Look up "MS-13", then get back to us. See if you don't think that immigrants should have a background check, the kind that they won't get if they can come here at will with no controls.

 

[Libsmasher]

gee, 10% for every illegal immigrant wouldn't lead to massive bankruptcy or anything, would it?

Like every employer hires illegals? Noooooooo. How come there isn't "massive murder or anything" ? Because, duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, it's against the law.

what's the difference between a legal and an illegal immigrant? some forms, waiting for years because of the crushing beauracracy of the immigration dept., a background check, and taking a test.

Plus maybe not letting in 20 million all at once? The immigrants this country needs aren't illiterate campesinos.

illegal immigrants aren't BAD

No, actually, they're FELONS - they broke federal law to come here. Using your "logic", I could rob a bank, but that wouldn't make me bad.

and to say they are is thinly veiled racism.

The ol' race card is the last refuge of the more intellectually feeble illegal alien shills.

if these people could come here, and get paid more, and get health insurance, and own a home, and not have to worry about being arrested and deported every day of their lives, they would. we don't let them.

Yeah, and "if" the queen had balls, she'd be the king. We aren't required to let ANYBODY in, and the people we should be letting in now are HIGHLY QUALIFIED, educated people from europe and asia, not a gigantic mass of illiterate poor to drag this country even further down.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libsmasher
Renters don't pay property tax, and very few illegal aliens must own a home - it's hard for me to see how any of them could get through the legal hoops of buying while being here illegally.

If they pay rent then the landlords are using that to pay the taxes. Sure technically they are not paying them but more practically they are. However, if 15 people are sharing an apartment and they send 10 kids to school then they are not paying their fair share.

The landlords don't need illegal aliens to pay their taxes, and using your logic, you could say my boss pays my property taxes because I pay them from my paycheck.

Quote:
You should grasp that most of them work for cash on the black market, and don't pay taxes.

Most of them work at regular jobs using someone else social security number. The taxes are paid under that account.

Almost all of them in southern california get paid cash - especially in the building trades. Allowing an illegal entreprise because the government gets some taxes is a corrupt argument.

Quote:
An illegal alien who BUYS health insurance must be the stupidest person on earth, and I doubt that any of them do. Do you have statistics?

I just looked it up. The figure I found was higher than I would have expected:

"In 1998, 32.4 percent of persons living in immigrant households (primarily Immigrants and their young children) lacked health insurance--more than twice the 13.9 percent of persons in native households."
http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=456

From that we can estimate that over 60% have health insurance.

That statistic is irrelevent - we are talking about >>ILLEGAL<<< immigrants.

Remember the purpose of health insurance is to protect your assets by ensuring that health expenses don't break your finances. If you have assets then you want insurance. And many illegals are not wetbacks but people who have overstayed their visas and bought homes legally and acquired assets.

The number of those people can't be more than a drop in the bucket compared to the illegals from mexico.

 

[Nerv14]

Actually, illegal alien amnesty happened in '86, long before the Clinton White house, but that is what happened: Amnesty was given, but the border was not secured. The result was a deluge of illegal aliens.

And, I don't buy the "you can't get them out" argument for amnesty. If jobs dry up, if criminals are instantly deported, pretty soon, most of them will go home or wind up in a Mexican jail. Once they're home, then sure, let's let them apply for legal entry. If there's room, and they can pass a background check, then allow them to enter. We don't want to close the border, only control it.

I wasn't saying that illegal immigration started during the Clinton years, but I meant exactly what you said in that he allowed amnesty but didn't close the borders so more illegal immigrants entered the country.

Since illegal immigrants are able to get jobs in America, which means there is a demand for it, a temporary workers program could just be used. We should obviously try and prevent illegal immigrants to get jobs but I just personally don't think that will work.

Completely false. All that is needed is to implement real ID for employees, make HUGE increases of fines for scofflaw employers - I suggest 10% of last year's profits for every illegal caught working, and greatly step up the inspectors in the few known industry employers of illegals. The failure to remove them is strictly US political interests arrayed against getting them out, nothing else.

Do you mean an ID card for everyone in America? Besides that I would support your plan if the illegal immigrants couldn't be legalized. I would just be concerned with the huge amounts of people that would be in this country illegally with almost no jobs, I don't know how that would unfold. However, thats just me being nice to them even though they broke the law.

I would be curious to compare the cost of the added inspections compared with created a stronger border defense. Even if the inspections costed slightly less I would still support amnesty for some reasons.

 

[Libsmasher]

Do you mean an ID card for everyone in America?

No - I mean an employer verifying that his employees are US citizens. Nowadays, of course, they can get fake ID. One thing you can say about the illegals is they've exposed flaws in our system. The government can hold seminars for HR people (who now spend their time enforcing anti-white racial quotas and other PC nonsense) on techniques to positively determine citizenship with a high degree of probability. It's a major job they should be doing, and now surely do it in a half-assed way if at all. This may involve a national DB, where the HR people can compare fingerprints and retinal scans with known illegals already once expelled from the country, or people who have overstayed visas, or skipped INS hearings.

Besides that I would support your plan if the illegal immigrants couldn't be legalized. I would just be concerned with the huge amounts of people that would be in this country illegally with almost no jobs, I don't know how that would unfold. However, thats just me being nice to them even though they broke the law.

There's every indication they would leave, if the only reason they are here disappears.

I would be curious to compare the cost of the added inspections compared with created a stronger border defense. Even if the inspections costed slightly less I would still support amnesty for some reasons.

My suggestion for this is to divert some of the zillions of people they have wasting time frisking people, etc, at airports.

 

[Dr.Who]

The landlords don't need illegal aliens to pay their taxes, and using your logic, you could say my boss pays my property taxes because I pay them from my paycheck.

An arguement can be taken too far as we both agree.

Almost all of them in southern california get paid cash - especially in the building trades. Allowing an illegal entreprise because the government gets some taxes is a corrupt argument.

What about the nation as a whole. Your turn. How many illegals pay income taxes? And by no means would I allow it for that reason. I would just not use lack of paying income taxes as a major reason to be against it. There are so many other good reasons.

That statistic is irrelevent - we are talking about >>ILLEGAL<<< immigrants.

OOps, I made a mistake.

The number of those people can't be more than a drop in the bucket compared to the illegals from mexico.

It's about half.

 

[Libsmasher]

Quote:
Almost all of them in southern california get paid cash - especially in the building trades. Allowing an illegal entreprise because the government gets some taxes is a corrupt argument

.

What about the nation as a whole.

Hard for me to understand why any place else should be different.

Your turn. How many illegals pay income taxes? And by no means would I allow it for that reason. I would just not use lack of paying income taxes as a major reason to be against it. There are so many other good reasons.

There's no way to tell that because company wage reports don't come to the federal government with a list of illegal aliens. I think it is another GOOD reason.

Quote:
The number of those people can't be more than a drop in the bucket compared to the illegals from mexico.

It's about half.

Citation?

 

[asur]

Because the average immigrant has few years of schooling, their incomes are low. Consequently they are eligible for many (federally mandated) state government services, but pay little in taxes. Specifically, the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994.

Lol, illegal immigrants pay no federal taxes where I live.

Yet Obama wants white folk to pay the taxes.

 

[PLC1]

Because the average immigrant has few years of schooling, their incomes are low. Consequently they are eligible for many (federally mandated) state government services, but pay little in taxes. Specifically, the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994.

Lol, illegal immigrants pay no federal taxes where I live.

Yet Obama wants white folk to pay the taxes.

The average illegal has few years of schooling, not necessarily the average immigrant.

And, Obama has a plan to make white people pay all of the taxes? How come we haven't heard about that?

I'd think Hillary would have announced such a plan, wouldn't you?

 

[Nerv14]

Because the average immigrant has few years of schooling, their incomes are low. Consequently they are eligible for many (federally mandated) state government services, but pay little in taxes. Specifically, the average illegal immigrant receives eight to twelve dollars in services for every dollar they pay in taxes, roughly twice the disparity found in 1994.

Lol, illegal immigrants pay no federal taxes where I live.

Yet Obama wants white folk to pay the taxes.

I support a higher sales tax to replace the income tax for economic reasons but that would also allow the government to tax illegal immigrants as much as normal immigrants.

 

[Libsmasher]

The average illegal has few years of schooling, not necessarily the average immigrant.

Citation?

 

[Libsmasher]

I support a higher sales tax to replace the income tax for economic reasons but that would also allow the government to tax illegal immigrants as much as normal immigrants.

The solution to illegal aliens is to get them out, not continue warping our own society in a dozen ways to sunday to allow them to stay.

 

[PLC1]

Citation?

I don't have any stats on illegal immigrants and their level of education. My statement was based on personal experience. Most of them I've known have had very little schooling.

Maybe someone else can either refute or support that observation.