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Oil Speculation
- Thread starter BigRob
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Little-Acorn
Well-Known Member
When is the Senate scheduled to bring in the CEOs of the oil companies, to thank them for lowering oil prices?
Every time prices go up, Congress drags in the oil CEOs and grills them for hours. Throughout it all, the govt maintains that government policies had nothing to do with the rising prices.
Now that prices are falling, will the govt still maintain their policies have nothing to do with it... and so, give credit where credit must be due?
Every time prices go up, Congress drags in the oil CEOs and grills them for hours. Throughout it all, the govt maintains that government policies had nothing to do with the rising prices.
Now that prices are falling, will the govt still maintain their policies have nothing to do with it... and so, give credit where credit must be due?
steveox
Well-Known Member
Guess you didnt hear the news last night. You didnt watch Obamas speech. THE WAR IS ALMOST OVER! Troops are comming home. You see i knew this all along, Arabs are holding a grunge against us. You see they want us off Arabic land. Ever since Bush invaded IRAQ Arabs rise the price of oil up. Gas was 1.87 a gallon before the Invasion. 2 Months after the invasion it went above $2 a gallon and it kept going up higher and higher. Didnt our elected officals ever learn Jesus lesson? TURN THE OTHER CHEEK!!! Even Jesus is make believe that phase does make sence. Just because someone attacks us doesnt mean we should attack them back. The French are right,, Look they never put up a fight when someone invades their country like Hitlers nazis was a good example how you turn the other cheek.What the french did was cooperate and not fight back it kept the peace and no one died during Nazi occupation of france. But the Arabs are not like peaceful people. They have never been a peaceful society. Unlikre our Indians are right now. Native Americans are no longer agressive unlike our blacks are blacks will fight back. So whats the reason going into Iraq? Saddam didnt have anything to do with 9-11. It was Bin Laden and Afgainstan In fact Saddam had no WMDs. It was George Bush made it personal he wanted to go after saddam because he tried to kill his daddy. So when America took over occupied IRAQ the Arab nations had no choice but to raise the price of oil to pressure America get off their land. And Gas prices are hurting Obamas chance to get re-elected. So Obama had no choice but to end the war so gas prices can come down.
That would have no impact on the price of gas today....it would have an impact on speculation on future supplies, which would drive the price down.
Everyone rants and raves about speculation when prices go up, but ignores when speculation drives prices down.
To the those that don't really understand commodities, the new margin hikes are the best possible way to reduce the over-speculation in commodities. Why would they do this? Because the contract price of the commodity is disengaged from supply and demand. This is production and delivery. Speculators don't take delivery, they just ramp up the price damaging the actual end users. The whole purpose of speculators is to provide liquidity to the commodities markets... NOTHING ELSE.
Further the CME and other platforms in the US are required by law now to regulate and create rules to prevent speculative bubbles... too much money chasing too few assets.
The markets should soar as the commodity speculation is cut back. In no way does it prevent a speculator from buying a contract; all it does is required more money to be backing the contract. This swipes the leverage side which the speculators find so attractive. It also prevents commodities markets from huge collapses that evaporate 99 billion dollars as crude did a couple weeks ago.
Anybody in crude oil that didn't expect this margin increase was blind or just plain stupid. When commodities markets are relinked to supply and demand, the global economies will will do extremely well. Of course this doesn't play well into the doomsdayers but they are flatly out of their minds. Anybody that would wish the destruction of the global economy in order for them to benefit is simply out of their mind. Jim Rogers is one of those Anti-American kooks.
Regardless, CME is doing its job. It is there duty to do this and prevent contract imbalances and commodity bubbles. They even have the power to bar speculators from the market so there power is unlimited to control commodity speculation. Gold, silver, corn, wheat and oil traders ought to take heed instead of displaying knee jerk stupidity.
The beauty of this approach is that it cuts back on liquidity indirectly increasing the value of the dollar. Commodities were always meant to be controlled by supply and demand. The Goldmans of the world abused the system to the extent that they triggered the last recession by bubbling the mortgages derivatives.
Oil demand in China was up only 1.6% over the entire last year. And in April dropped 1.2%. So high flying oil prices have disengaged completely from supply and demand and it is time this was fixed for the sake of the US economy and all the global economies.
just sayin
doug
Further the CME and other platforms in the US are required by law now to regulate and create rules to prevent speculative bubbles... too much money chasing too few assets.
The markets should soar as the commodity speculation is cut back. In no way does it prevent a speculator from buying a contract; all it does is required more money to be backing the contract. This swipes the leverage side which the speculators find so attractive. It also prevents commodities markets from huge collapses that evaporate 99 billion dollars as crude did a couple weeks ago.
Anybody in crude oil that didn't expect this margin increase was blind or just plain stupid. When commodities markets are relinked to supply and demand, the global economies will will do extremely well. Of course this doesn't play well into the doomsdayers but they are flatly out of their minds. Anybody that would wish the destruction of the global economy in order for them to benefit is simply out of their mind. Jim Rogers is one of those Anti-American kooks.
Regardless, CME is doing its job. It is there duty to do this and prevent contract imbalances and commodity bubbles. They even have the power to bar speculators from the market so there power is unlimited to control commodity speculation. Gold, silver, corn, wheat and oil traders ought to take heed instead of displaying knee jerk stupidity.
The beauty of this approach is that it cuts back on liquidity indirectly increasing the value of the dollar. Commodities were always meant to be controlled by supply and demand. The Goldmans of the world abused the system to the extent that they triggered the last recession by bubbling the mortgages derivatives.
Oil demand in China was up only 1.6% over the entire last year. And in April dropped 1.2%. So high flying oil prices have disengaged completely from supply and demand and it is time this was fixed for the sake of the US economy and all the global economies.
just sayin
doug
Of course a drop in oil is music to the global economies ears but as I said a few days ago, the same stupidity that draws in dip buyers creates havoc in the credit markets. Here we have credit wasted on buying futures for which no delivery will ever be taken. Its absolutely crazy. There is not one scrap of evidence to suggest that high cost energy is good for anyone but the speculators.
And oil is the worst, that's why hedges prefer it; its the most disruptive. It also links to every agricultural commodity like wheat, corn and anything grown because it takes diesel fuel. So this second crackdown in oil may get the attention of these out of control speculators and in fact Goldman. I truly believe that Goldman and their propensity to announce a sell off while buying the other side of the trade is what makes them tic. And of all the irresponsible calls they have ever made, the call following the drop of oil that it would be back up again nailed not only their own clients but also a lot of other hedge funds that tried to push oil back up last week.
When commodities are linked to the markets, that's a big problem. How are they linked? Only through margin calls. In theory if oil goes down, chemicals, airlines, and transportation should go up. But instead, it falls when these dopes get nailed with margin calls.
Today was a very healthy market move as day traders sold off with the hedges.
High cost energy is the destroyer of all economies emerging or otherwise.
Today was an excellent day because the commodity speculators got crushed again and the biggest abusers in the oil patch got flayed opened. Tomorrow will be more margin calls.IMHO
regards
doug
And oil is the worst, that's why hedges prefer it; its the most disruptive. It also links to every agricultural commodity like wheat, corn and anything grown because it takes diesel fuel. So this second crackdown in oil may get the attention of these out of control speculators and in fact Goldman. I truly believe that Goldman and their propensity to announce a sell off while buying the other side of the trade is what makes them tic. And of all the irresponsible calls they have ever made, the call following the drop of oil that it would be back up again nailed not only their own clients but also a lot of other hedge funds that tried to push oil back up last week.
When commodities are linked to the markets, that's a big problem. How are they linked? Only through margin calls. In theory if oil goes down, chemicals, airlines, and transportation should go up. But instead, it falls when these dopes get nailed with margin calls.
Today was a very healthy market move as day traders sold off with the hedges.
High cost energy is the destroyer of all economies emerging or otherwise.
Today was an excellent day because the commodity speculators got crushed again and the biggest abusers in the oil patch got flayed opened. Tomorrow will be more margin calls.IMHO
regards
doug
TruthSeeker
Well-Known Member
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- 836
The margin hikes in silver futures caused silver to drop $15.00 an ounce last month.
Although this may have been a bad thing for the speculators, it was a good thing for the long term silver investors, because the short-term profiteers were cleaned out.
So, with silver sitting at around $35-36.00 an ounce, rest assured that when silver goes up to $60.00 an ounce, and even higher, it will be a "solid" increase, because it will be due to supply and demand.
I predict that, some time in the next 12-18 months, private ownership of gold coinage will, once again, be made illegal. Although Obama can't accomplish this via executive order (like FDR did), and it requires an act of Congress to do so, those of you who may own a decent amount of gold coins better be prepared to trade in your gold for a pre-determined amount of Federal Reserve notes (aka "paper and ink").
Although this may have been a bad thing for the speculators, it was a good thing for the long term silver investors, because the short-term profiteers were cleaned out.
So, with silver sitting at around $35-36.00 an ounce, rest assured that when silver goes up to $60.00 an ounce, and even higher, it will be a "solid" increase, because it will be due to supply and demand.
I predict that, some time in the next 12-18 months, private ownership of gold coinage will, once again, be made illegal. Although Obama can't accomplish this via executive order (like FDR did), and it requires an act of Congress to do so, those of you who may own a decent amount of gold coins better be prepared to trade in your gold for a pre-determined amount of Federal Reserve notes (aka "paper and ink").
Relative to the OP. On the news last night, a financial annalist was commenting the the release of the oil reserves is having the effect of driving the oil speculators out of the market. So, Big Rob, it seems premature to "...thank the oil speculators...", for the dropping oil prices.Uh, the oil price drop came because obozo released 30 million barrels of oil from the strategic petroleum reserve, probably violating the law.
If that is what the financial analyst said, he is an idiot. Unless he somehow clarified it, his comment basically follows the thought process that oil speculators only drive the price of oil up...that is simply wrong. Speculators simply take bets (more or less) on what they think future prices are going to be...be it more expensive or less expensive.
Yes, President Obama is going to release oil from the reserve, but not a drop of that oil has come into the market, and prices fell dramatically. You cannot really argue that is simply supply driving the price down, because that supply has not come into the market yet. In reality, prices are falling (among some other factors) because people are simply speculating on future supplies, which is driving down the price.
TruthSeeker
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The U.S. consumes over 19 million barrels of crude oil per DAY, so Obama robbing 30 million barrels of crude from the SPR is literally a "drop in the bucket".
BigRob and nobull and myself have it right. Everybody else should quit "speculating" as to what has caused the price of gasoline to drop, and re-read what the three of us already stated.
TruthSeeker..don't hate me but..I like the Obama oil trade today. It slammed oil speculators in the teeth. This is goldman and MS and the hedges. Cramer related that he Sauds have told him many times that they cannot beat the hedge funds who keep raising the price of oil but here is an example how they can beat them, hyperflood the the market after oil has dropped. This captures the oil speculator as they are flying to the honey and busts them.
If Saudi or other oil nations did this occasionally that would drastically curtail the speculators. Since speculators out number buyers and seller and consist of such upstanding guys as Goldamn and the hedges, it serves them right. Besides hedges are composed of money from the wealthiest Americans. They should have more moral character than to destroy America with high priced oil. Saud has unlimited power in the oil pits if they care to exert it. Russia is so corrupt you can bet their hedge funds got blasted today.
Normally I hate gov intervention into markets but these markets are so corrupt they have no relationship with free markets based on supply and demand. When banks like Goldman and MS buy more oil contracts than exxon, you know its manipulated.
Oil should be $36-40 a bbl. If the House of Saud doesn't work on this, middle east food shocks will occur and they could lose everything. High priced oil chokes off the global economy. For years this abuse has taken place from Goldman and MS.
My concern is that oil has been selling off for several days so maybe Goldman and MS had some inside warning. That would be unfortunate. I am sure the British and Russian hedges didn't know about it. So they got hammered.
And you should definitely buy these markets. When these hedge funds unload stocks they have to. So those are the stocks you want to buy. That is why today sold off at exactly when the oil was released and equities later rebounded.
I think Obama should do this again just like Truman did when he dropped to nuclear weapons. Let them know it can happen anytime. I do think there should be an investigation into the last several days of trades just to make sure there was no insider leaks that were used. No that Goldman would ever take advantage of insider information.
I noticed that traders were whining about the higher sulfur west tex int. again with the myth that it is not used for gasoline. Bullsiht. Every refiner west of Illinois refines WTI as well as shale oil. So while the brent crude market is broken, the big oil nations could pull the same stunt and whack the brent speculators for a lesson they would never forget.
No matter how you slice it, if oil markets can get back to supply and demand instead of dyrtbag speculation, the entire global economy will lift and life will improve greatly both in America as well as around the globe. Goldman and MS should be barred from commodity speculation. They are banks and should not be the largest oil traders in the world. Oil is too important to allow speculative manipulation. Oil should move by pure supply and demand. That is gov's job to be the referee and keep manipulation out of free markets. If they have a job at all..
just ranting
doug
If Saudi or other oil nations did this occasionally that would drastically curtail the speculators. Since speculators out number buyers and seller and consist of such upstanding guys as Goldamn and the hedges, it serves them right. Besides hedges are composed of money from the wealthiest Americans. They should have more moral character than to destroy America with high priced oil. Saud has unlimited power in the oil pits if they care to exert it. Russia is so corrupt you can bet their hedge funds got blasted today.
Normally I hate gov intervention into markets but these markets are so corrupt they have no relationship with free markets based on supply and demand. When banks like Goldman and MS buy more oil contracts than exxon, you know its manipulated.
Oil should be $36-40 a bbl. If the House of Saud doesn't work on this, middle east food shocks will occur and they could lose everything. High priced oil chokes off the global economy. For years this abuse has taken place from Goldman and MS.
My concern is that oil has been selling off for several days so maybe Goldman and MS had some inside warning. That would be unfortunate. I am sure the British and Russian hedges didn't know about it. So they got hammered.
And you should definitely buy these markets. When these hedge funds unload stocks they have to. So those are the stocks you want to buy. That is why today sold off at exactly when the oil was released and equities later rebounded.
I think Obama should do this again just like Truman did when he dropped to nuclear weapons. Let them know it can happen anytime. I do think there should be an investigation into the last several days of trades just to make sure there was no insider leaks that were used. No that Goldman would ever take advantage of insider information.
I noticed that traders were whining about the higher sulfur west tex int. again with the myth that it is not used for gasoline. Bullsiht. Every refiner west of Illinois refines WTI as well as shale oil. So while the brent crude market is broken, the big oil nations could pull the same stunt and whack the brent speculators for a lesson they would never forget.
No matter how you slice it, if oil markets can get back to supply and demand instead of dyrtbag speculation, the entire global economy will lift and life will improve greatly both in America as well as around the globe. Goldman and MS should be barred from commodity speculation. They are banks and should not be the largest oil traders in the world. Oil is too important to allow speculative manipulation. Oil should move by pure supply and demand. That is gov's job to be the referee and keep manipulation out of free markets. If they have a job at all..
just ranting
doug
Rick
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You REALLY think speculators have to wait till the oil actually hits the market before the price drops from that cause??? That makes no sense. They know the the oil is going to be released, now is the time to get out of the oil market.
Stalin
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The entire modern retail finance "industry" should be taken out and shot.
They contribute nothing to modern life and are a cancer eating at every country's productive base.
Russia, China and India are booming econmies creating by intelligent socialist planning directed from the central government, but once the the second-rate minds get control they will be screwed like the US and Europe.
You can bank on it.
Comrade Stalin
They contribute nothing to modern life and are a cancer eating at every country's productive base.
Russia, China and India are booming econmies creating by intelligent socialist planning directed from the central government, but once the the second-rate minds get control they will be screwed like the US and Europe.
You can bank on it.
Comrade Stalin
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Stalin
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,806
The entire modern retail finance "industry" should be taken out and shot.
They contribute nothing to modern life and are a cancer eating at every country's productive base.
Russia, China and India are booming econmies creating by intelligent socialist planning directed from the central government, but once the the second-rate minds get control they will be screwed like the US and Europe.
You can bank on it.
Comrade Stalin
They contribute nothing to modern life and are a cancer eating at every country's productive base.
Russia, China and India are booming econmies creating by intelligent socialist planning directed from the central government, but once the the second-rate minds get control they will be screwed like the US and Europe.
You can bank on it.
Comrade Stalin
