Possible terror attack on IRS building, plane crashed into building...

[pocketfullofshells]

Strange!! My picture is in your local paper almost weekly and I never hear from you!

what in the cough with hookers section?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Webrockk, thanks for the post.

Pocket, you said this looks like a politically motivated attack... Perhaps it's the rise of a violent radical "centrist" movement.

Yeah....out-of-work Engineers...Thanks to BUSHCO.

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Setting fire to house with your own family in it..as reported on fox....

....The FIRST indication it was probably a Lie.

​

 

[Hobo1]

I don't think the poliics was this guys only issue...Just a major one, but we are going to find the deeper issues where more personal...

and the guys own rants and other info seem to suggest he was trying to hide money from the IRS...and something about a how to write off a new buisness expense...a Piano....I have no idea what business...but not many I can think of need a piano.but who knows.

This guy had major problems with the government and the system - not personal issues! I can relate to them 1000%. Been there, done that, I know how frustrating America can be for someone trying to follow the "rules".

Now read carefully what this guy said about hiding money and the piano...

So now we cometo the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash, I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again.

But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

summary: He has tax questions (including a piano) and goes to a professional accountant for help.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to [the accountant] Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

summary: His tax accountant made a mistake by failing to report his wife's unearned income*. The tax accountant did not take responsibility for the mistake during a tax audit.
*note: If you don't know the difference between earned and unearned income, then you can't begin to understand why this guy is so pi$$ed off.

BTW, the accountant properly declared the piano on the tax form - that was not the problem. The problem was the accountant's failure to report the wife's unearned income. But the root of the problem is the complexity of the tax code and the idiots at IRS who never are willing to work to solve a problem.

All I can say is if you ever had a complex dispute with the IRS or with the Social Security System, you can understand the rage this man must have felt. He tried to live the American dream and was kicked in the teeth everywhere he turned. I've been there - and can honestly say this is not a political issue. It is the result of the massive incompetence by government employees.

And the frustration is driven home like a nail in your throat when companies like GM and Chrysler (a 100% private partership) were given bailout money from the government. Where was my bailout money when I needed it? Oh, yea, I am small enough to fail!

Joe Stack is my hero. A suicide bomber fighting against a failed US government.

 

[PLC1]

Parts of Stack's rants sound a lot like some of the ones that get posted on internet forums dedicated to politics and religion.

Maybe ranting in print is therapeutic enough to keep the less balanced among us from actually doing something crazy, like flying a plane into the IRS building. It didn't seem to work for him, but then, no one was reading his writing.

Questions: Is this guy a terrorist, or just a nutcase? Can an American citizen carrying out a suicide attack be a terrorist, or does it have to be an Islamic extremist? Had he been captured, would he have been a criminal, or would he have been an enemy combatant? Could he have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques", as it has been suggested the "underwear bomber" should have been?

 

[rationalist]

Everything is terrorism so be afraid and happily give up your civil liberties.

More people die from bee stings than terrorism so are bees terrorists?

Buzz terrorist is coming after yer

Kill all the bees.

 

[Hobo1]

Parts of Stack's rants sound a lot like some of the ones that get posted on internet forums dedicated to politics and religion.

I don't know, maybe you are not old enough to remember when you could just walk into an airline terminal, check in your bags and board the airplane. No security - even when the hijacking craze was popular (circa 1970)

Or before answering machines when you called any number and you got an intelligent human who could answer your questions - right now. Pre-computers, the person who answered the phone had the responsibility and authority to fix your problem, right now. Never needed to make a second call.

The Federal government wasn't involved in everything. Things like water pollution, marriage, abortion, education,etc. - it was all handled at the state level and they passed it down to the county. So you could drive to a government office and talk to the IRS. You didn't have to take a number and wait a long time. The government didn't have a lot of programs, so you simply didn't need to interact with them.

I didn't need car insurance; driver's licenses were paid in cash with the small money in your wallet. No airbags, no seat-belts. If I wanted that stuff it was an option. I HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE WHICH STEPS ARE NECESSARY TO KEEP ME OUT OF DANGER - AND THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NEED TO TELL ME. Cigarettes are okay, but I must wear a seat belt... nucking futs.

You went to the doctor (or he came to your house) with a few of the basic medical tools - and gave you a diagnosis. For broken legs, pneumonia, or appendicitis, you could go to the hospital and get patched up. But 90% of the time it was.. take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

Maybe this is cruel to say, but their was a time for dying as well. My grandfather had cancer - there was no chemo or radiation - it was his time to die and everyone accepted that. My grandmother drove her car into a tree.. and there was no feeding tubes, etc. She was broken beyond repair, and allowed to die.

Now, we are getting to point where we can cure almost everything or replace parts bionically. What is the goal? To keep everybody alive forever? No wonder health care is so expensive. In most other parts of the world people are allowed to die of "natural causes". Most people who are getting older (like me) don't want to be kept alive forever. I don't want to live in a nursing home and play checkers because I have Alzheimer's or some other prolonged illness. Give me the strychnine and get over it. I have lived a great life (except for the times spent on 1-800 numbers on hold). When my time comes to die - for God's sake let me die.

We don't have freedom, we don't have liberty... everything is regulated - from our first day at pre-school to the last, long day we spend at the hospital. Joe Stack was right on - our freedoms, our democracy, are ideals we teach our children are nothing but stories from the past. They no longer exists in America today.

 

[rationalist]

Very good post.

Unfortunately you never did.

Before it was terror it was communism that was used to whip up hysteria and control people and before that it was race.

 

[Helicitor]

Questions: Is this guy a terrorist, or just a nutcase? Can an American citizen carrying out a suicide attack be a terrorist, or does it have to be an Islamic extremist? Had he been captured, would he have been a criminal, or would he have been an enemy combatant? Could he have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques", as it has been suggested the "underwear bomber" should have been?

Since he was using violence to further a political goal, he was a terrorist.

Since he sought to end his life because he felt overwhelmed, he was a suicide.

Since he sought to kill, he was a murderer.

Why does it matter what we call him? Labels don't matter--he was a one man show. Just a blip in the universe that'll soon be forgotten.

The IRS and tax code have been crap for years, and nothing changes. Support a flat tax, and let's keep it simple, but then politicians won't be able to use the tax code to control our behavior and buy votes.

 

[PLC1]

I don't know, maybe you are not old enough to remember when you could just walk into an airline terminal, check in your bags and board the airplane. No security - even when the hijacking craze was popular (circa 1970)

Or before answering machines when you called any number and you got an intelligent human who could answer your questions - right now. Pre-computers, the person who answered the phone had the responsibility and authority to fix your problem, right now. Never needed to make a second call.

The Federal government wasn't involved in everything. Things like water pollution, marriage, abortion, education,etc. - it was all handled at the state level and they passed it down to the county. So you could drive to a government office and talk to the IRS. You didn't have to take a number and wait a long time. The government didn't have a lot of programs, so you simply didn't need to interact with them.

I didn't need car insurance; driver's licenses were paid in cash with the small money in your wallet. No airbags, no seat-belts. If I wanted that stuff it was an option. I HAVE THE RIGHT TO JUDGE WHICH STEPS ARE NECESSARY TO KEEP ME OUT OF DANGER - AND THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T NEED TO TELL ME. Cigarettes are okay, but I must wear a seat belt... nucking futs.

You went to the doctor (or he came to your house) with a few of the basic medical tools - and gave you a diagnosis. For broken legs, pneumonia, or appendicitis, you could go to the hospital and get patched up. But 90% of the time it was.. take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

Maybe this is cruel to say, but their was a time for dying as well. My grandfather had cancer - there was no chemo or radiation - it was his time to die and everyone accepted that. My grandmother drove her car into a tree.. and there was no feeding tubes, etc. She was broken beyond repair, and allowed to die.

Now, we are getting to point where we can cure almost everything or replace parts bionically. What is the goal? To keep everybody alive forever? No wonder health care is so expensive. In most other parts of the world people are allowed to die of "natural causes". Most people who are getting older (like me) don't want to be kept alive forever. I don't want to live in a nursing home and play checkers because I have Alzheimer's or some other prolonged illness. Give me the strychnine and get over it. I have lived a great life (except for the times spent on 1-800 numbers on hold). When my time comes to die - for God's sake let me die.

We don't have freedom, we don't have liberty... everything is regulated - from our first day at pre-school to the last, long day we spend at the hospital. Joe Stack was right on - our freedoms, our democracy, are ideals we teach our children are nothing but stories from the past. They no longer exists in America today.

oh, yes, I remember how things used to be. I graduated from high school in 1960. Yes, the world has changed a lot since then, and you could make a case that we aren't as free as we were back then.

Does that mean that flying a plane into an IRS building is a rational act?

I mean, obviously, he had a pretty good life. He had a college degree, a good job, a private airplane. Were things so bad for him that he had to commit suicide, try to kill a bunch of innocent people, and burn down his own house? What was that going to accomplish?

 

[LTKrgm]

Parts of Stack's rants sound a lot like some of the ones that get posted on internet forums dedicated to politics and religion.

Maybe ranting in print is therapeutic enough to keep the less balanced among us from actually doing something crazy, like flying a plane into the IRS building. It didn't seem to work for him, but then, no one was reading his writing.

Questions: Is this guy a terrorist, or just a nutcase? Can an American citizen carrying out a suicide attack be a terrorist, or does it have to be an Islamic extremist? Had he been captured, would he have been a criminal, or would he have been an enemy combatant? Could he have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques", as it has been suggested the "underwear bomber" should have been?

Good questions PLC,

I'll take a swing at answering them if you like.

This guy wasn't a terrorist, but that doesn't mean that American's can be terrorists. Timothy Mcveigh is generally regarded as a terrorist, because his intent was to cause terror. I think it's absolutely possible for an American to be a terrorist - terrorism is in the type of act, not the nationality of the person performing the act.

Most people who commit crimes, even commit murder, are not terrorists - but if you really think about it, the lines are a little blurred. Were Bonnie & Clyde terrorists? They did create terror, but I think they fell short of the true definition of terrorism.



This stack guy says pretty clearly that he wants people to "wake up", and his act was against the government/IRS, not the people. He doesn't hate people at all, he hates politicians, so he's clearly not a terrorist. Not close.

I don't want to say he was a "nut job" either, because that's too easy.

My personal read on the guy is that he's probably manic depressive with a very LONG term resentment against the government in general and the IRS in particular. He lists many grievences he's had against the IRS in his rant.

1) He studied "Tax code" in the 80s and "That little lesson in patriotism cost 'him' $40,000+, 10 years of my life"

2) he talks about - "the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706." - something he spent 1000 hours and $5,000 of his own money to fight in 1987

3) then, sometime after 9-11 "I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need." - so, he basically tapped his IRA without knowing that tapping an IRA counts as taxible income with a 10% penalty.

4) - most recently, he was hit because of his wife's unreported income.

There was also a divorce and a couple recessions that hit this guy. He had a string of bad luck, but many of us have had a string of bad luck and most of us don't fly planes into buildings, or even - want to.


I'd call the guy a manic depressed person with a chip on his shoulder. The kind of guy who appeared normal, but carried a deep resentment inside him. I could be wrong, but that's my read on him.

 

[Hobo1]

Way back when we were all trying to come up with the definition of terrorism, I settled on his definition:
"A para-military organization, non-aligned with one country, driven by the need to remedy or defend themselves against an attack on their moral principles."

Joe Stack was fighting back against the US government who violated his moral principles. But he is certainly not part of a para-military organization. He was driven by revenge and rage, not greed. He was not a terrorist, he was a criminal. If he had survived he would be tried in criminal court and given all the rights of an American citizen (limited as they may be).