Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care?

[Little-Acorn]

The old, tired argument about the "Welfare Clause" has long been debunked (see https://www.houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?p=113709#post113709 ). Even more so the excuses for the "Commerce Clause".

In fact, the coming government intrusion into Health Care, is completely unconstitutional... as are programs such as Welfare, Social Security, etc.

How long will it be before someone whose employer drops their company's health care program, sues the Fed Govt over enactment of this massive program?

The 10th amendment says that any power not specified in the Constitution, is FORBIDDEN to the Fed, though "the states and the people" can still exercise it if they want.

And running Health Care isn't specified anywhere in the Constitution as a power of the Federal Govt.

For you leftists, what part of the Constitution, exactly, authorizes the Fed Govt to run Health care?

 

[bododie]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

They believe that "the pursuit of happiness" involves someone else paying to make them happy.

 

[Sihouette]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

Article I, Section 8

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States"

The "general welfare of the United States" can be construed to include providing basic health care for its GDP-producing workforce and their supportive family members/future generations of workers and those elderly retired workers. A drop in overall health of the workers of this nation past, present and future is a real and tangible threat to the stability of the United States as a leading world nation. Therefore it is within the powers of the Congress to enact and provide for general universal health care coverage for United States Citizens as underpinnings for the very fiscal solvency of America as a whole.

Interestingly enough, also in this Section is the reason the deal cut with Nebraska will be Constitutionally overturned. Seems the distinguished Senator from Nebraska didn't study American Government very well in highschool..lol..

 

[top gun]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

The old, tired argument about the "Welfare Clause" has long been debunked (see https://www.houseofpolitics.com/forum/showthread.php?p=113709#post113709 ). Even more so the excuses for the "Commerce Clause".

In fact, the coming government intrusion into Health Care, is completely unconstitutional... as are programs such as Welfare, Social Security, etc.

How long will it be before someone whose employer drops their company's health care program, sues the Fed Govt over enactment of this massive program?

The 10th amendment says that any power not specified in the Constitution, is FORBIDDEN to the Fed, though "the states and the people" can still exercise it if they want.

And running Health Care isn't specified anywhere in the Constitution as a power of the Federal Govt.

For you leftists, what part of the Constitution, exactly, authorizes the Fed Govt to run Health care?

You are mistaken. The Federal Government has every right to step in and address a critical national problem.

You specifically cite the justification as non-justification to try and take the real authority off the table. It doesn't work that way. And then to make your argument even weaker you cite long standing programs like Welfare & Social Security that have all stood in the face of any and all Constitutional challenges.

What we have here from you is described by Abraham Lincoln... and with the exact same result.

If you call a tail a leg, how many legs has a dog? Five? No, calling a tail a leg don't make it a leg.
Abraham Lincoln

 

[Sihouette]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

thanks for the echo top gun

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." - Madison

"With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." – James Madison

“The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed" - Thomas Jefferson

"Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated." - Thomas Jefferson

 

[Little-Acorn]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

The "general welfare of the United States" can be construed to include providing basic health care for its GDP-producing workforce and their supportive family members/future generations of workers and those elderly retired workers.

Nonsense. Are you seriously trying to claim the Framers meant for the U.S. Government to provide "free" health care for every U.S. citizen?

The very fact that some people will need more spent on theirhealth care than others, puts this outside any authority the govt may have.

A drop in overall health of the workers of this nation past, present and future is a real and tangible threat to the stability of the United States as a leading world nation.

The same argument could be made for the govt to take over supplying all food, all shelter, all clothing etc... positions that would be every bit as nonsensical as the assertion that the Fed govt is authorized to run Health Care.

Therefore it is within the powers of the Congress to enact and provide for general universal health care coverage for United States Citizens as underpinnings for the very fiscal solvency of America as a whole.

Thanks for the standard big-government-should-run-everything view. It has failed nearly every time it has been tried, frequently resulting in mass famine, disease, and even death.

The Framers knew what they were doing in restricting the government from such grandiose (and arrogant) schemes. Too bad the same cannot be said about the people presently in majorities in our government.

Interestingly enough, also in this Section is the reason the deal cut with Nebraska will be Constitutionally overturned.

Correct! You just raised your grade from an F to a D+.

But Nebraska will have to take a number and stand in a LONG line, behind the deals cut for Social Security, Welfare, the EPA, US v. Miller, and a host of other unconstitutional things the govt has done. Despite their clear, solid legal reasons for being unconstitutional, don't count on any of them getting overturned any time soon.

Seems the distinguished Senator from Nebraska didn't study American Government very well in highschool..lol..

It would be a lot easier to name the Senators who did... or at least it wouldn't take as long, since the list is short.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

You are mistaken. The Federal Government has every right to step in and address a critical national problem.

Were you about to answer the basic question I asked in the OP?

What part of the Constitution authorizes this? The "Welfare clause" clearly does not.

 

[flaja]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

The old, tired argument about the "Welfare Clause" has long been debunked

The U.S. Supreme Court says otherwise, and it is the Court’s opinion that matters, not the lunatic libertarian fringe’s.

 

[flaja]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

And then to make your argument even weaker you cite long standing programs like Welfare & Social Security that have all stood in the face of any and all Constitutional challenges.

You must realize that libertarians have no respect for the Constitution because they have no respect for the rule of law.

Please don’t get the idea that the fools you find on the net who call themselves conservative while insisting that the free market can solve every problem known to man are really conservative. They are not. They are libertarians and libertarianism and conservatism are not the same thing.

 

[flaja]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,

This is where you are wrong. Congress is not the supreme judge of anything in this country; the American People are. If the American People need something that they cannot provide for themselves, they have every right to tell the government to help them.

 

[Sihouette]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

Yes, yes they do. And not only that but they can prove with numbers how not having universal health care is more deadly to our cohesion as a nation. When the whole enchilada is endagered by a lack of welfare in a given and identified area like universal health care, then the People have a right to require their elected Congress to provide for it.

People that are healthy are statistically more productive, do less crime, go to the doctor less, get better educations and nations filled with these people will dominate the next century. Mark my words. If we want to be in the ranks of developing nations then we should just listen to the bribed GOP traitorous/stupid bastards in Congress and forget all about it.

[I'm being as nice as I can be, really ]

 

[flaja]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

Yes, yes they do. And not only that but they can prove with numbers how not having universal health care is more deadly to our cohesion as a nation.

It would be equally deadly to our cohesion as a nation if the government creates a program that 1. we cannot afford and 2. saps private initiative and 3. ends up not working.

The conservative approach to reform is to reform, but do so without making drastic changes whose consequences we cannot anticipate and cannot undo should they prove to be disastrous.

 

[Sihouette]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

Uh, right now we have a universal health care "coverage" that is crippling our economy. It's called ER visits that Uncle Sam is biting dust trying to keep up with. Universal health care will provide more preventative services at a cheaper tab. The level of proper [not meatball triage] care will rise and complications from hastily-bandaided treatments will fall. This will save billions over the next couple decades.

Crunch the numbers and get back to me.

 

[Pandora]

Re: Remind me again what part of the Const authorizes the Fed govt to run Health Care

Uh, right now we have a universal health care "coverage" that is crippling our economy. It's called ER visits that Uncle Sam is biting dust trying to keep up with. Universal health care will provide more preventative services at a cheaper tab. The level of proper [not meatball triage] care will rise and complications from hastily-bandaided treatments will fall. This will save billions over the next couple decades.

Crunch the numbers and get back to me.

I know its off topic but how did the holiday boycott go? are the numbers out yet?