Hardly a red herring...there are more jobs reliant on the auto industry than just the actual makers of the cars. The raw material suppliers, dealerships, and a whole slough of other areas will be hurt by these companies going under. You want to end welfare, but putting people out of work who have little to nothing to do with the mismangement of the companies will only increase out welfare burden.
As for government staying out of the auto industry, and specifically CAFE standards, you might be onto something there, but it is in our nation interest to use less foreign oil, and the CAFE standards do assist with that.
My interest is the minimize those who lose thier jobs and investments. Again with a focus on not increasing our welfare burden.
There is no "fix". But there is a way to make it less painful for us as a country. I have only been to the UP of Michigan, so I cant speak much for the literally abandonded neighborhoods of already shut down factory towns, but I understand it is heartbreaking.
I would agree that both parties are guilty in this regard. This is a failure of our two party system, we are left with only the viability in the choice of the lesser of two evils.
Seneca, Ill take that money, I need a flush deck on my fishing vessel and a new electronics system to go with it, along with a few new shackles of net. But that much spread of money does us zero good except to cause the biggest shopping spree and raise of inflation in American history, whereas investing it in some specific areas works to minimize the need for future welfare.
When it comes to spending, especially during the Bush administration years, I blame those in power and the person who signs the spending bills. GWB came into power with a sizable surplus, but GWB is hardly a conservative. As for correcting incorrect statements from the left, you might want to see where I have told plenty of lefties around here where they are wrong.
I get a kick out of beeing called a lefty honestly, I pride myself on being a pragmatist, I am known for this on a local level in my dealings. Popeye and Top Gun probably wouldnt call me a very good liberal. I want to drill ANWR, and to have access to guns freely. One thing I have agreed with the GOP on during the Bush years was letting the Brady Bill to sunset. That was a draconian piece of legislation.
In comparison to other industrialized countries, in the modern global society, we are hardly a "welfare" state. Why is it that much less powerful and wealthy countries are able to ensure some basic needs for thier citizens to be a part of a productive society but we cannot?
Socialism works in plenty of places, but we arent even talking about that level of socialism here. Grouping socialism now into what socialism has been in modern times is hardly the case. You want socialism, check out the United Soviet Socialist Republic.
Eliminate felonious crimes? Id like to hear more about this?
My generation? Not sure what you mean by this...how old are you? How old do you think I am?
For quite awhile it has been China and the House of Saud who has been funding them. We take the easy route to fix our domestic problems, we let someone else pay for it. I have been saying we need to pay for it ourselves, and doing it without simply printing more money. Because it is "my generation" and my childrens, and grandchildrens who will be paying for this latest rounds of expenditures.
Firstly, you dont have the right to property, but I am going to assume you are talking about your tax dollars. Also I am not sure where you get
Hardly tyranny in the traditional sense, but I do pay for it. I pay roughly %30 of my income to the federal government.
There are plenty of things that have become outdated and obsolete from what the founding fathers had in mind. There was no vision of the industrial revolution and a global economy.
For the record I have voted in my life for quite a few more Republicans than I have Democrats. Both viable candidates would continue down the same path.
I do listen to what you have to say, I respect but often disagree, the same goes for Andy. I enjoy the debates we have much moreso than what I get from other posters who lean right who are only interested in demonizing Obama, even after he won the election and before he has taken office and had his chance at it. I will be critical of Obama when I disagree as I have plenty of times.
I appreciate the way you want to discuss the issues in depth, I never meant for you to percieve I have some sort of ax to grind, I just like the debate, and enjoy doing it with someone who can actually do that, and you are one who can. I hope to continue to do so in the future. 
