Social Security will go bankrupt soon. What should we do?

Little-Acorn

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Social Security has already passed the point where it is paying out more than it is taking in via "contributions". And it's just a matter of time before it runs out of money completely, going bankrupt.

Some have said that our only alternatives are (a) increasing SS taxes, (b) reducing benefits, thus hurting people who planned their retirements with the expectation of getting those full benefits, (c) getting rid of SS entirely, thus hurting people receiving benefits even more.

Can we avoid ALL pain caused by Social Security's coming failure? Probably not. But here's a suggestion of how to handle it with the least pain possible:

1.) All payments into Social Security stop now. Today. No one will ever have another penny taken out of his paycheck, for SS.

2.) People who have paid into SS all their lives and are now retired, will continue to get the same SS benefits as they would if no changes were made, for the rest of their lives as current SS rules call for. People of middle age who have worked and paid into SS for decades, but are still a few decades from retirement, will get the SS benefits at retirement that they would have gotten, if SS did not change but they stopped paying into it now. When they turn 65, they will get reduced benefits, lower than if they had paid into SS until they retired, as is also called out in current SS rules. People just entering the job market who have not yet made any SS payments, will never get a single SS benefit in their lives.

3.) Everyone will see their paychecks increase, usually by about 15%. (7-1/2% they used to have withheld for SS, and the matching 7-1/2% their employer used to pay to SS for them). They can use this extra money, to invest in a well-established private retirement fund. There are many that exist, paying anywhere from 5 to 10% interest for such long-term investments. People who have paid into SS and will retire in 20-plus years, and who will be getting reduced SS benefits when they do, will augment those benefits with the benefits from their own fund, which of course will also be smaller than if they had invested in the fund for the entire 40-plus years of their career. Younger people just starting out, will do all their retirement investing the their private fund, which will pay all their benefits when they retire.

(NOTE: Such retirement funds pay, on average, anywhere from 5 to 20 times as much as SS for a similar investment period. Fact.)

4.) Since the money to pay SS benefits to present and future retirees must come from somewhere (Govt has already spent all the money it took in from them, it's gone), a new tax will be levied on everyone, to provide those funds for the present and future retireeswho have paid into SS. And it will have a sunset provision: It will be adjusted to take in EXACTLY what the retirees will get this year, and next year, and etc. Since no one lives forever, eventually this tax will go out of existence as people who paid into SS, pass away. Eventually all will be gone, and so will the tax.

As I said, there is NO plan that is free from drawbacks, including this one. That tax will be a burden. Good news is, it will go away eventually, and everyone who has paid into SS will get what has been promised to them, nobody gets suddenly cut off. Private funds can fail... but they seldom do. And it is practical to get insurance against that possibility. But it is worth noting that none of the major funds that have been around for long times, have ever failed to deliver profits higher than those SS recipients have received over equal periods, even periods that included the Great Depression, the Carter recession of 1978-1982, and every other economic downturn we've had.

Should there be a law FORCING people to invest in a retirement fund (or two or ten)? Maybe... but I suggest that that be done on a state level rather than Federal. A one-size-fits-all policy here would be very bad. Individual states can decide how much coercion they should impose on their citizens, even on an obviously beneficial matter like retirement investment. Citizen input for such legislation, is much more effective and immediate at a state level, than at a Federal level.

How does this plan sound? As I said, it is not without drawbacks. But it has the benefit of positively eliminating the dead end of Social Security, which will enter bankruptcy within our lifetimes.
 
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Social Security has already passed the point where it is paying out more than it is taking in via "contributions". And it's just a matter of time before it runs out of money completely, going bankrupt.

Some have said that our only alternatives are (a) increasing SS taxes, (b) reducing benefits, thus hurting people who planned their retirements with the expectation of getting those full benefits, (c) getting rid of SS entirely, thus hurting people receiving benefits even more.

Can we avoid ALL pain caused by Social Security's coming failure? Probably not. But here's a suggestion of how to handle it with the least pain possible:

1.) All payments into Social Security stop now. Today. No one will ever have another penny taken out of his paycheck, for SS.

2.) People who have paid into SS all their lives and are now retired, will continue to get the same SS benefits as they would if no changes were made, for the rest of their lives as current SS rules call for. People of middle age who have worked and paid into SS for decades, but are still a few decades from retirement, will get the SS benefits at retirement that they would have gotten, if SS did not change but they stopped paying into it now. When they turn 65, they will get reduced benefits, lower than if they had paid into SS until they retired, as is also called out in current SS rules. People just entering the job market who have not yet made any SS payments, will never get a single SS benefit in their lives.

3.) Everyone will see their paychecks increase, usually by about 15%. (7-1/2% they used to have withheld for SS, and the matching 7-1/2% their employer used to pay to SS for them). They can use this extra money, to invest in a well-established private retirement fund. There are many that exist, paying anywhere from 5 to 10% interest for such long-term investments. People who have paid into SS and will retire in 20-plus years, and who will be getting reduced SS benefits when they do, will augment those benefits with the benefits from their own fund, which of course will also be smaller than if they had invested in the fund for the entire 40-plus years of their career. Younger people just starting out, will do all their retirement investing the their private fund, which will pay all their benefits when they retire.

(NOTE: Such retirement funds pay, on average, anywhere from 5 to 20 times as much as SS for a similar investment period. Fact.)

4.) Since the money to pay SS benefits to present and future retirees must come from somewhere (Govt has already spent all the money it took in from them, it's gone), a new tax will be levied on everyone, to provide those funds for the present and future retireeswho have paid into SS. And it will have a sunset provision: It will be adjusted to take in EXACTLY what the retirees will get this year, and next year, and etc. Since no one lives forever, eventually this tax will go out of existence as people who paid into SS, pass away. Eventually all will be gone, and so will the tax.

As I said, there is NO plan that is free from drawbacks, including this one. That tax will be a burden. Good news is, it will go away eventually, and everyone who has paid into SS will get what has been promised to them, nobody gets suddenly cut off. Private funds can fail... but they seldom do. And it is practical to get insurance against that possibility. But it is worth noting that none of the major funds that have been around for long times, have ever failed to deliver profits higher than those SS recipients have received over equal periods, even periods that included the Great Depression, the Carter recession of 1978-1982, and every other economic downturn we've had.

Should there be a law FORCING people to invest in a retirement fund (or two or ten)? Maybe... but I suggest that that be done on a state level rather than Federal. A one-size-fits-all policy here would be very bad. Individual states can decide how much coercion they should impose on their citizens, even on an obviously beneficial matter like retirement investment. Citizen input for such legislation, is much more effective and immediate at a state level, than at a Federal level.

How does this plan sound? As I said, it is not without drawbacks. But it has the benefit of positively eliminating the dead end of Social Security, which will enter bankruptcy within our lifetimes.

It sounds to me like you're advocating eliminating one tax, and passing another while forcing people to open a retirement plan.

SS is flawed, but then, so is your plan.

Let's keep SS, but make some radical changes to it, while keeping it solvent by paying back those IOUs. That course of action will be painful, and therefore unpopular, but is the only out of the mess created by having spent the retirement funds to begin with.

Let's quit using SS as a catch all welfare plan to pay people who didn't pay into it. Only those who invested should be entitled to that entitlement fund. Let's take it out of he general fund and make it a real trust fund, the way it should have been all along.

Once we again have an excess in the SS fund, let's put it in long term diversified portfolios where it can earn come real interest. That way, it will once again become a self sustaining program.

If a private company were to start a retirement plan for employees, then spend the money it took out of their checks on day to day business expenses, it would rightly be called fraud, yet that is exactly what the federal government has done with the SS funds. It is a shame that we have come to this, but there is no alternative to belt tightening. It might even be necessary to raise the retirement age and increase withholding temporarily, at least until the fund can collect on those bad debts it has incurred.

But first, let's publish a list of every congressperson who has supported spending more money than the government has to spend, then see to it that they don't get reelected. That should bring about some real changes in Washington.
 
SS is flawed, but then, so is your plan.
Your plan wasn't any better.

paying back those IOUs.
Go look at the number those IOU's represenet... it's big... really big... then compute a formula for taxes over expenditures to both keep the system solvent while catching it up from the rears. If it were possible to tax people that heavily without creating a massive economic depression, you'd be looking at an 83% income tax for everybody.

Let's quit using SS as a catch all welfare plan to pay people who didn't pay into it. Only those who invested should be entitled to that entitlement fund.
Wait a second... You are totally fine with extending healthcare and welfare benefits to illegal aliens but actual Americans getting undeserved benefits from SS bothers you?

Once we again have an excess in the SS fund,
Puff, Puff, Pass... You're Bogartin' a pipe dream over there.

let's put it in long term diversified portfolios where it can earn come real interest.
Sounds like the plan Bush had... You know... to gamble away all your retirement money on the stock market (or so we were told by the fearmongering Democrats).

That way, it will once again become a self sustaining program.
"once again"? It was NEVER self sustaining... It's a Ponzi Scheme! You even admit to it being a FRAUD in your very next sentence...

If a private company were to start a retirement plan for employees, then spend the money it took out of their checks on day to day business expenses, it would rightly be called fraud, yet that is exactly what the federal government has done with the SS funds.
Politicians lack the backbone and intestinal fortitude necessary to enact all the massive reforms necessary to transform the SS system of fraud into a legitimate retirement system.

It is a shame that we have come to this, but there is no alternative to belt tightening.
Of course there is another alternative... We just print more money like they did in the Wiemar Republic or, more recently, Zimbabwe. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

Even the Left Wing Zealots over at the Huffpo understand the danger of following that Keynesian economic policy...

Federal Reserve Begins Massive Monetization of U.S. Government Debt

In a step that will be one of the markers on the road to economic and financial catastrophe, the Federal Open Market Committee (otherwise known as the FOMC) of the Federal Reserve, made a bombshell policy decision on August 10, 2010, one fraught with dangerous long-term consequences for the American and global economy.

In a policy being dubbed QE2, the Federal Reserve's FOMC conceded that the so-called U.S. economic recovery has "slowed," and required more stimulus from the Fed. However, with federal funds interest rates now effectively at zero, the only aspect of monetary policy left is money printing. Thus, the Federal Reserve, in effect, will use its printing press to buy long-term U.S. government debt.

BTW, some of us have been ringing the alarm bells warning that this was coming and the same people who said we were kooks and conspiracy theorists are nowhere to be found now that it's coming to pass.

But first, let's publish a list of every congressperson who has supported spending more money than the government has to spend, then see to it that they don't get reelected. That should bring about some real changes in Washington.
How about rephrasing that as a list of Congressmen who vote for spending more than is brought in through taxes? Otherwise "has to spend" could be interpreted as what government "must spend" rather than "is available to spend".
 
Generally like the plan but I would add rolling back all thr free pass expansions passed as vote buys since the last re-rack (Regan era I believe).
 
I have a plan as well, why not have fairys grant us all wishes ...

now how about idea with a chance? A plan that would actually get support and pass? whats the likelihood of any politician in the next 15 years passing that plan...zero...so what good is the plan? nothing outside rounding up votes for your self...just like the people crying change the 14th amendment...it does one thing...rile up your base...but never will be done. Even the idea of raising the age to 70...is one almost no one will actually support outside a very small amount...
 
Your plan wasn't any better.


Go look at the number those IOU's represenet... it's big... really big... then compute a formula for taxes over expenditures to both keep the system solvent while catching it up from the rears. If it were possible to tax people that heavily without creating a massive economic depression, you'd be looking at an 83% income tax for everybody.

If the two of us can't come up with a workable plan, what chance does Congress have of doing so?



Wait a second... You are totally fine with extending healthcare and welfare benefits to illegal aliens but actual Americans getting undeserved benefits from SS bothers you?

Now, there's a total misrepresentation of anything I've ever said. It sounds a lot like some silly Limbaugh rant to me.

Puff, Puff, Pass... You're Bogartin' a pipe dream over there.

We've had an excess in the SS fund for years. We allowed the federal government to spend it, and now are reaping the benefits of our lack of vigilance.

Sounds like the plan Bush had... You know... to gamble away all your retirement money on the stock market (or so we were told by the fearmongering Democrats).

Bush's plan was to allow individuals to keep some of their SS money and invest it themselves. It sounded good, until you stopped to think that it would have left the system without adequate funds in the short term. Had he had a real plan, it would have addressed that little problem. As it is, he just mouthed a politically popular idea that had no chance of becoming reality. Unfortunately, he was the POTUS, and not just someone on an internet forum.


"once again"? It was NEVER self sustaining... It's a Ponzi Scheme! You even admit to it being a FRAUD in your very next sentence...

It was only a fraud when the money was not kept in a trust fund, but spend on the day to day operation of the government.

Politicians lack the backbone and intestinal fortitude necessary to enact all the massive reforms necessary to transform the SS system of fraud into a legitimate retirement system.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're right about that one.

Of course there is another alternative... We just print more money like they did in the Wiemar Republic or, more recently, Zimbabwe. Problem solved. :rolleyes:

That does seem to be the current plan.

Even the Left Wing Zealots over at the Huffpo understand the danger of following that Keynesian economic policy...



BTW, some of us have been ringing the alarm bells warning that this was coming and the same people who said we were kooks and conspiracy theorists are nowhere to be found now that it's coming to pass.


How about rephrasing that as a list of Congressmen who vote for spending more than is brought in through taxes? Otherwise "has to spend" could be interpreted as what government "must spend" rather than "is available to spend".

Yes, that's what I meant.
 
I have a plan as well, why not have fairys grant us all wishes ...

now how about idea with a chance? A plan that would actually get support and pass?

Take a look at California... They "support" increased benefits paid for by the taxpayers but they don't "support" an increase in their taxes. Besides... the "plan" is already in action and nobody had to vote for it, we are monitizing our debt.
 
Take a look at California... They "support" increased benefits paid for by the taxpayers but they don't "support" an increase in their taxes. Besides... the "plan" is already in action and nobody had to vote for it, we are monitizing our debt.

Thats why we don't let voters vote on evry issue...they are collectivly idiots. Thats why cali votes for all spending, and all tax reductions, but never cuts in spending and never raise taxes....they let voters pick and choose...thats why cali is a mess.
 
California is a mess because of liberals and THEIR votes and the ideology (utopian drivel) that propels those votes. Do tell us about California all the way from I believe Minnesota? Yep. You know it all. California is the poster child for failed liberalism.

As for never raising taxes? Tell that to every Californian who now has an extra 10% taken out of their paychecks to pay for all the problems they caused for themselves. Tell that to the college students who now pay 30% more for tuition because of the state's economy. If California doesn't get rid of Pelosi, Boxer and Feinstein they deserve everything they get.
 
California is a mess because of liberals and THEIR votes and the ideology (utopian drivel) that propels those votes. Do tell us about California all the way from I believe Minnesota? Yep. You know it all. California is the poster child for failed liberalism.

As for never raising taxes? Tell that to every Californian who now has an extra 10% taken out of their paychecks to pay for all the problems they caused for themselves. Tell that to the college students who now pay 30% more for tuition because of the state's economy. If California doesn't get rid of Pelosi, Boxer and Feinstein they deserve everything they get.

Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein are all in the federal government. The problem in California is with the state government and its spending.
 
Pelosi, Boxer, and Feinstein are all in the federal government. The problem in California is with the state government and its spending

Who do you think keeps them there? They are culpable in that none of them is interested in the constituents that put them there. They only care about their own power.

Again, the voters put the reps in the state gov too. California needs to get smart and get off its cumbaya ass.
 
Who do you think keeps them there? They are culpable in that none of them is interested in the constituents that put them there. They only care about their own power.

Much like the rest of Congress. It's time for term limits.

Again, the voters put the reps in the state gov too. California needs to get smart and get off its cumbaya ass.

The point is, even if California were to replace it's two senators and the Republicans' least favorite speaker of the house, that wouldn't do a thing to solve its budget problems.

If it were to replace Tom McClintock, possibly one of the last remaining conservatives in Washington, that wouldn't matter to the state budget, either.

"cumbaya" has nothing to do with it. Fiscal responsibility has everything to do with financial problems in Sacramento and Washington DC.
 
Who do you think keeps them there? They are culpable in that none of them is interested in the constituents that put them there. They only care about their own power.


It is interesting that the comment keeps being repeated that elected officials don't care about their constituents, when in reality, at least 51% of those constituents feel they cared about them enough to vote them back into office.
 
51% of those constituents feel they cared about them enough to vote them back into office.

More likely most of those 51% just aren't paying attention to politics, and pull the lever on the same old name every two years.

Remember the classic definition: Politics is the art of getting people who aren't paying attention, to vote for you anyway.
 
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More likely most of those 51% just aren't paying attention to politics, and pull the lever on the same old name every two years.

No Kidding. They even continue to do so after they're dead! What an amazing country.
 
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