The Answer to Global warming is trains,Wind and Solar farms.

[Pidgey]

Well, I think we all distort and misdirect on a fairly regular basis. Look at what I said about common senseless scientists and politicians... crap, they can't ALL be that bad...

...can they?

There are people who sit around and daydream stuff up. They fairly often do not have one stinking clue how to actually do it, count the cost or even start the process but they manage to write it down or otherwise publish the idea. It often takes another kind of person to objectively consider the tools and resources at hand and how they can work in concert to make a workable daydream into a reality, someone with a feel for the economics and logistics involved in the exercise. And sometimes, it takes an entire team to arrive at such a reality.

But there are tangible limits that sometimes prevent a "possibility" from proceeding to a "probability" and then on to "production". The laser idea to reach out and touch someone(thing) that far away seems to me to really lack in practical credibility and my posts above are laden with that opinion without the benefit of truly practical proof. Yet I encoded that opinion in somewhat derisive language.

I am probably more in agreement-in-principle with Palerider's side of the general content of this thread than not. His personal debate style is unimportant to me. While it's often a bad idea to cage one's statements in too absolute of terms in a forum like this because of the potential for distributing a fungal infection from one's foot to one's mouth, the risk one takes expressing one's opinions is only to one's ego and/or beliefs.

So, getting back to the overall, I don't personally believe that trains, wind and solar farms are the answer to global warming. At least, not the one and only.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

No i don't believe any of those things mentioned in the thread are the answer to global warming either. I was ONLY commenting on a lasers ability to move solid matter.

 

[palerider]

Pigdey.

Not to split a hair too fine but applying pressure upon matter is not moving matter. I have looked and have found some scholarly papers that suggest a bit of electron drift when attempts to move matter have been made in the laboratory, but can find none that describe actual movement of matter.

You have piqued my curiosity, however, and if there is evidence that the photons that compose the laser light have actually moved matter as opposed to plasma streams in the opposite direction from the destruction of the matter itself, I really would be interested in seeing it so as not to mistakenly argue this same point at some future date.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

hahhahahahahaha


the windbag has to concede to the new guy superb

 

[USMC the Almighty]

hahhahahahahaha


the windbag has to concede to the new guy superb

Roker, seriously, why do you post stuff like this? What purpose does it serve?

 

[Rokerijdude11]

its pretty self explanatory isnt it? Seems as Palerider has and equal when it comes to circle talking.I find it amusing as hell

 

[palerider]

hahhahahahahaha


the windbag has to concede to the new guy superb

That is the difference between you and me roker and why I will always be smarter than you. I can learn. And if he provides credible information that states decisively that I am wrong, then I take that information and add it to my knowledge base and if I ever enter a discussion on whether or not photons can actually move matter, I will have more knowledge at my disposal.

I regularly learn from people I have never encountered before. Whenever I pick up a book from an author that I have never read, I expect to learn something that I didn't know before. Your implication that I have lost something because I may conceed a point to a "new guy" highlights why you remain ignorant. I don't know whether the new guy is, in reality, Bozo the clown or Stephen Hawking and it really doesn't matter. If he is right, he is right and if he can demonstrate that he is right, then I either have to accept that he is right and add the knowledge to what I know, or be like you and hang on to what I wish.

 

[Pidgey]

More Bozo the Clown, I've been told...

Y'all kinda' like jabbin' each other, don'tcha'?

The force exerted by light (if I read it all aright) is so stinkin' tiny that I don't think that component has anything whatsoever to do with any scientist's idea of redirecting a comet anyhow. I would have to believe that they'd theorized that they could create some lateral thrust to (very minutely) change the comet's course by way of attempting to create a plasma plume with the lasers' light. Somebody had mentioned using a phased-array, well, that's why you would. In lasers, the materials tend to burst apart when you actually pump enough power into them to output a truly significant wattage. So, you use enough of them focused on a single spot to perform the trick instead if that's what it takes. That's what they'd be doing.

Of course, there are a lot more complications to this deal than just the technical problem of getting your targeting perfect across a distance that would mean a substantial time lag into the minutes (never mind being able to see the effect that you're having and measuring it)--you've still got to deal with the fun of actually calculating the trajectory of the potentially-offending-heavenly-body forward in time long enough to get it right. That's a lot tougher to do than it looks because of the gravitational forces of everything else in the system causing said body to wobble every which way throughout its course in the timespan to its eventual impact.

The further back from that point you can hit it, the less energy it would take to deflect it significantly enough to miss. Truly a tough problem. A mathematical error (remember Hubble's debut?) could end up being a horrible mistake.

I probably got into this deal more because it seemed to me that it's a classical argument between the technician and the... UNtechnical person. The one is always having to explain to the other why "that won't work... " before the UNtechnical person blows millions of dollars and puts the company in bankruptcy. There always seems to be some envy or jealousy on the part of the UNtechnical person against the technical person and, therefore, the UNtechnical person always instinctively knows where the technical person's goat's tied.

I thought that this thread started going to a-place-with-a-REAL-global-warming-problem in a handbasket from the third post:

Scientist have the power to weaken an powerful hurricane by dropping a chemical from a plane to weaken the storm.But the EPA wont allow them to do it.

...and I musta' been a'spoilin' for a fight or something. I really don't have the time for this...

 

[palerider]

More Bozo the Clown, I've been told...

Y'all kinda' like jabbin' each other, don'tcha'?

You might say that. I enjoy pushing his buttons and they are such easy buttons to push.

I am with you on all that you said but in this instance, I am focused on the technicality of whether any scientist in any lab has actually moved matter with photons or have they simply measured pressure.

As I said, I have found some papers that describe some electron drift that is "very likely" due to photon pressure but nothing that speaks to actual movement. In fact, I haven't found any papers that speak to lights of different characters, and intensities (including lasers) producing different amounts of photon pressure.

 

[Pidgey]

Well, F=MA. If you want to run the mathematics conceptually through language, then for a pressure, or force, to have been measurably applied, a mass must have been accelerated. Perhaps the publications gleaned so far find this point too obvious to state, as this particular discussion would not have been in their agenda to answer.