The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative action?

[KingClovis]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

It's time for the Western Christian Nation to either recapture the West, or carve out a piece of it, to call its own. Radical secularism has gone completely insane.

 

[top gun]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

You were the one pointing the finger.

For Republicants you really should be better liars than this. Must have been sick the day that GOP class was held.

These aren't terms of endearments my friend... these are finger pointing.

Post #68

Originally Posted by GenSeneca

You support discrimination based on such things as race and sex.

You support punishing innocent people who had nothing to do with prior injustices.

Democrats have a long history of racism and never abandoned their infatuation with discrimination.

But the proof was in the words of our President... I didn't realize how far back Republicant obstructionism ran... I thought it was a fairly new thing. Weak move back then and still weak today.

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

For Republicants you really should be better liars than this.

You support discrimination based on such things as race and sex.

You support punishing innocent people who had nothing to do with prior injustices.

Democrats have a long history of racism and never abandoned their infatuation with discrimination.

Each of those statements is fact. The only liar here posts in progbot blue.

"Top Gun never acknowledges that by making one group (African-Americans) artificially privileged through AA, that the other group (Whites, others) is necessarily discriminated against due to no fault of their own." -- CNHander

Its unfortunate that innocent people such as CNHander must be made victims of such discrimination and Top Gun defends the injustice, saying that CNHander is guilty of being born white. Bringing up Legacy admissions is not a sufficient explanation, or excuse, for a policy of discrimination, as poor whites have been just as discriminated against as blacks in school admissions. What's worse is the discriminatory policies that are meant to help minorities actually hurt them too. When discrimination is made policy, everybody loses. Affirmative Action is a lose-lose policy that continues in the racist tradition of Democrat politics.

 

[top gun]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

You support discrimination based on such things as race and sex.

I support helping qualified candidates of a race purposely and intentionally held back & held down from all basic civil rights and an education for centuries and denied a chance to better themselves by a totally White enforcement of egregious governmental & institutional laws, rules and requirements to purposely create a systemic disadvantage to said group.

"Top Gun never acknowledges that by making one group (African-Americans) artificially privileged through AA, that the other group (Whites, others) is necessarily discriminated against due to no fault of their own." -- CNHander

I recognize that if the Black Panthers had controlled all of America and the White race was treated in a way equal to the way Blacks were treated from the founding of this nation until after the Civil Rights movement I would think Affirmative Action was in fact not enough compensation. But it would be something that could help my race as a whole make up slightly for our centuries of lost ground in regard to participating in higher education.

President Kennedy on Obstrutionist Republicants

President Kennedy on the severe & intentional hold backs placed on Blacks by Whites

 

[KingClovis]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

Reverse-discrimination is a fact of life in America today. I have to contend with it every second of every day at work, where it seems forever poised to smash me like a bug. It's predominance in our culture and public institutions serves as yet another stark reminder that Western society needs an overhaul, in the spirit of conservative traditionalism.

 

[top gun]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

Reverse-discrimination is a fact of life in America today. I have to contend with it every second of every day at work, where it seems forever poised to smash me like a bug. It's predominance in our culture and public institutions serves as yet another stark reminder that Western society needs an overhaul, in the spirit of conservative traditionalism.

In what line of work are you in and in what state do you reside?

 

[CNHander]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

I support helping qualified candidates of a race purposely and intentionally held back & held down from all basic civil rights and an education for centuries and denied a chance to better themselves by a totally White enforcement of egregious governmental & institutional laws, rules and requirements to purposely create a systemic disadvantage to said group.[/COLOR]
All you are doing is framing the problem from your side, without even acknowledging the necessary downsides. That is not going to help win me (or anyone else) over to your side.

"Top Gun never acknowledges that by making one group (African-Americans) artificially privileged through AA, that the other group (Whites, others) is necessarily discriminated against due to no fault of their own." -- CNHander

I recognize that if the Black Panthers had controlled all of America and the White race was treated in a way equal to the way Blacks were treated from the founding of this nation until after the Civil Rights movement I would think Affirmative Action was in fact not enough compensation. But it would be something that could help my race as a whole make up slightly for our centuries of lost ground in regard to participating in higher education.

Two issues here. First, you still have not acknowledged what I said you have not acknowledged. The downside of AA is not "Same for whites, had they been slaves;" the downside is that "Whites or blacks, the other party is unjustly discriminated against." Secondly, although I've said this many times before, and although you've ignored or dismissed it without explaination many times before, I'll say it again: one cannot help make up for centuries of discrimination through a policy that is only really effective as long as it is practiced. You also cannot help make up for centuries of discrimination with a policy that treats the results of disadvantages rather than the disadvantages itself.

Reverse-discrimination is a fact of life in America today. I have to contend with it every second of every day at work, where it seems forever poised to smash me like a bug. It's predominance in our culture and public institutions serves as yet another stark reminder that Western society needs an overhaul, in the spirit of conservative traditionalism.

I don't think it's THAT pervasive; I doubt you "have to contend with it every second of every day at work." Then again, I have very, very little experience in the matter.

 

[asur]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

In the US workplace, reverse discrimination has led to some related problems.

Because managers are afraid to be considered racist they almost have to treat preferred
minorities with special privilege. Longer breaks, more time off, less achievement and
yet greater pay. All this leads to a US companies demise in the long run.

The federal government wastes taxpayer resources to setup special boards directed to overseeing certain minorities get fair treatment, etc.

Preferred minorities are given special consideration for contracts, promotions and any
lawsuit they want to bring, even if without merit.

In the global marketplace, this obviously can be a problem, because
other countries have the option of selecting the best individuals or companies
to produce a product, etc.

 

[top gun]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

I support helping qualified candidates of a race purposely and intentionally held back & held down from all basic civil rights and an education for centuries and denied a chance to better themselves by a totally White enforcement of egregious governmental & institutional laws, rules and requirements to purposely create a systemic disadvantage to said group.[/COLOR]

All you are doing is framing the problem from your side, without even acknowledging the necessary downsides. That is not going to help win me (or anyone else) over to your side.

I'm not thinking I'm going to "win" you over. I'm simply stating the fact that AA was needed and justifiable.

Here's a parable to think about. Let's not even go all the way back to slavery... let's just go back to segregation a mere 40 years ago.

Let's say a small cruise ship shipwrecks on a native Island. And the tribe on that island purposefully to weaken the passengers deprives them of food & water. And through horrible living conditions which were nothing like the good living conditions of the tribe themselves weakens the passengers even more by sickness.

Then a new tribal authority comes to power.

Is it fair & just that these intentionally harmed & weakened passengers just get let go on the island to try and fend for themselves in their current dieing state?

Or should some food and whatever medical care available be set aside in an attempt to right the wrong and make them strong enough to do what they always could have done on their own if not purposefully damaged by the tribe in the first place?

Justice dictates that we do the greater good. And that's exactly what affirmative action was set up to accomplish.

Two issues here. First, you still have not acknowledged what I said you have not acknowledged. The downside of AA is not "Same for whites, had they been slaves;" the downside is that "Whites or blacks, the other party is unjustly discriminated against." Secondly, although I've said this many times before, and although you've ignored or dismissed it without explaination many times before, I'll say it again: one cannot help make up for centuries of discrimination through a policy that is only really effective as long as it is practiced. You also cannot help make up for centuries of discrimination with a policy that treats the results of disadvantages rather than the disadvantages itself.

I think I have addressed these... but I'll be glad to reiterate.

AA is not a unjust discrimination. It is a making up blatant governmental & institutionally imposed lost ground in the sphere of higher education, issue.

This happens all the time in law. Often the heirs of an estates benefit after the fact. And also often a specific portion of society receives legal or monetary benefits after the fact for purposeful wrongdoing.

When the tobacco companies are forced to pay the states billions to help atone for past bad practices almost all if not all of the "original" people affected were dead & buried. But the industry was still punished "discriminated against if you like" as a business by taking that businesses funds away from them to help other smokers and to help keep others from smoking.

Happens all the time and is justifiable.

 

[GenSeneca]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

Justice dictates that we do the greater good.

Punishing innocent people who had NOTHING to do with the injustices foisted on others is not justice, its anger driven retribution leveled against the WRONG people. You don't want justice and equality, you think blacks have a right to get "even" with whitey for the injustices of the past. How about you pay reparations to some blacks out of your own pocket, give up whatever job you have now to a black man, give yourself and your children to a black family and live as their slaves... After all, if its such a great injustice and being white is the crime, then turn yourself in for punishment and leave the innocent people out of your madness.

Your constant references to the Tobacco industry are flawed to the core... if you wanted a more apt analogy it would be people wronged by the tobacco industry bringing litigation against the steel industry, because both are industries. Just as one had nothing to do with the "crimes" of the other, this is your form of retribution against whites who had nothing to do with the crimes of other whites.

CNHander has never owned a slave. He has never "held down the black man" in any way, his only crime, and the only reason you feel he is deserving of punishment, is his skin color - which he did not choose.

You progbots are totally obsessed with skin color and race. If we are to achieve Kings ideal of a color blind society and achieve an actual "greater good", Race Peddlers like yourself need to relagated to the circular file of history.

 

[PLC1]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

Punishing innocent people who had NOTHING to do with the injustices foisted on others is not justice, its anger driven retribution leveled against the WRONG people. You don't want justice and equality, you think blacks have a right to get "even" with whitey for the injustices of the past. How about you pay reparations to some blacks out of your own pocket, give up whatever job you have now to a black man, give yourself and your children to a black family and live as their slaves... After all, if its such a great injustice and being white is the crime, then turn yourself in for punishment and leave the innocent people out of your madness.

Your constant references to the Tobacco industry are flawed to the core... if you wanted a more apt analogy it would be people wronged by the tobacco industry bringing litigation against the steel industry, because both are industries. Just as one had nothing to do with the "crimes" of the other, this is your form of retribution against whites who had nothing to do with the crimes of other whites.

CNHander has never owned a slave. He has never "held down the black man" in any way, his only crime, and the only reason you feel he is deserving of punishment, is his skin color - which he did not choose.

You progbots are totally obsessed with skin color and race. If we are to achieve Kings ideal of a color blind society and achieve an actual "greater good", Race Peddlers like yourself need to relagated to the circular file of history.

Good answer.

I can tell you that, even though my skin is quite pale as a result of my Scottish ancestry, none of my forebears ever had slaves. My dad did extensive genealogy, and turned up not one ancestor who could have had the wherewithal to have owned even one slave.

So, I share no guilt there.

I've never held back a black person, or any other person, so why should I have to feel some guilt or feel obligated to pay back some supposed debt?

Further, I submit that the mentality of "poor me, I've been held back by the evil people with pale skin" is what is holding back some of the black community. Those who rise above that notion seem to do quite well in our society, even get themselves elected to high office.

How does anyone who thinks that the "plight of the poor black man" is the fault of white America explain the fact that the Japanese were subjected to at least as much prejudice as the blacks ever were, and yet seem to be doing at least as well as, if not better than, the average white? Could it relate to mental attitude?

Or, should we espouse the blatantly racist notion that Asians are mentally superior to blacks?

To me, the answer is pretty clear.

 

[asur]

Re: The just and the unjust ways to address modern racial inequality: affirmative act

Democrats are actually Using Stimulus Packages to Discriminate Against Whites today!

Note this racist little item is brought to you by the Obama administration. Yup, all you whiteys better get to the back of the bailout bus, or else…

Explosive Video Reich, Obamas economic advisor no “White Male Construction Workers”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opxuUj6vFa4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdoctorbulldog.wordpress.com%2F2009%2F01%2F23%2Fdemocrats-using-stimulus-package-to-discriminate-against-whites%2F&feature=player_embedded