The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

A nutshell view of Gnostic Christianity is expressed in the first two links. The third shows the attitude and result of Christian and Gnostic Christian interaction. I should point out that Gnostic Christianity does not hold to any supernatural belief, although I know that the literature, mostly written by those who won the God wars, wants to show that we do. Our myths have a lot of supernatural entities but they are myths, not reality.

I heard the saying in the title of this O. P. some time ago and after looking at the moral aspects of both ideologies/ theologies; --- I think that statement to be true from a moral point of view.

Do you?

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

The only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian. True or false?

define "christian" in the context of gnosticism....shouldn't you be comparing proto-orthodoxy against heterodoxy?
Its interesting and ironic that a heritical sect called the Ebionites held the perspectives that appear to be historically closer to the views of the apostles and Jesus than those that ended up becoming embedded in the creed of Nicaea in 325 ...go figure

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

define "christian" in the context of gnosticism....shouldn't you be comparing proto-orthodoxy against heterodoxy?
Its interesting and ironic that a heritical sect called the Ebionites held the perspectives that appear to be historically closer to the views of the apostles and Jesus than those that ended up becoming embedded in the creed of Nicaea in 325 ...go figure

I cannot define Christians but Jesus did. He said any real Christian would be able to do all he did and more.

That last clip shows two sects, one Gnostic Christian and the other orthodox.

Care to evaluate those two for their good or evil?

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

Care to evaluate those two for their good or evil?

no...not really. I'm not that interested in the good or evil concepts just the historical element of the early proto-christianities... are you trying to get some sympathy for the Cathars as born again Gnostics? Interesting that the Templars were used against them and then guess what happened to the Templars. Should you be interested in rise and conflict of the Cathars etal indeed the situation in France and the Pyrenees you should read R.I Moore's book "The War on Heresy" from page 145 you get the beginings of the issues following the conveneing of the 2nd Lateran Council I think you need to look at "heresey" in the context of the social and political upheaval in the twelfth century.
The video you posted by Timothy Freke...who is he...never heard of him before. I guess he thinks he's stumbled upon something no other historians have come across before...move over Dan Brown?
I'm sure he's very good and very plausible but the video makes him look hackneyed and thoughts just derivative.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

no...not really. I'm not that interested in the good or evil concepts just the historical element of the early proto-christianities... are you trying to get some sympathy for the Cathars as born again Gnostics? Interesting that the Templars were used against them and then guess what happened to the Templars. Should you be interested in rise and conflict of the Cathars etal indeed the situation in France and the Pyrenees you should read R.I Moore's book "The War on Heresy" from page 145 you get the beginings of the issues following the conveneing of the 2nd Lateran Council I think you need to look at "heresey" in the context of the social and political upheaval in the twelfth century.
The video you posted by Timothy Freke...who is he...never heard of him before. I guess he thinks he's stumbled upon something no other historians have come across before...move over Dan Brown?
I'm sure he's very good and very plausible but the video makes him look hackneyed and thoughts just derivative.

My reason for posting this was twofold.

To have Christians recognize the immorality of their religion both in their actions and their moral tenets and also to push the Gnostic Christian thinking by showing how it created a peaceful community.

Timothy Freke does not claim to have discovered anything new. Just issues supressed by the orthodoxy.

The ideas of oneness are older than most religions.

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

Just issues supressed by the orthodoxy.

I don't thnk you mean that....scholars are suppressed...??

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

I don't thnk you mean that....scholars are suppressed...??

No. Just that the orthodoxy do not speak of their use of Inquisitions as well as never quoting the more Gnostic Christian teachings in the bible. Like these.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

orthodoxy do not speak of their use of Inquisitions

But they do... there are books written on them I have loads?

quoting the more Gnostic Christian teachings in the bible. Like these.

The trouble with quoting the bible is that I don't think it is what you want it to be. The first canon was put together by Marcion, Marcions' was the first canon of "scripture" known to have been collected and the only reason that we have a "bible" is because Irenaeus had to put together his own canon of "scripture" to refute Marcions canon. Marcion is a new testament literalist (for want of a better phrase) he took certain writings which he heavily edited and took them as his canon - in all he had 11 books.

How many Gods do you have? What is your canon? I find your OP interesting as you don't define your starting point? There is no single "gnostic" cult. There is no single christianity. How is one or the other to be good or bad if you cannot define your OP?

 

[The Scotsman]

I cannot define Christians but Jesus did.

Jesus didn't know what Christians were? He was a Rabbi(?) at least an apocalyptic preacher. The lad had no idea he was starting a new religion that job went to Paul.

 

[The Scotsman]

I should point out that Gnostic Christianity does not hold to any supernatural belief,

Yes it does. The whole basis of proto-Christian Gnosticism is based on there being a non-material existence from which the "soul" needs to leave. Most Gnostics believe that Sophia a lesser God created or allowed to be created pesky little Aeons (even lesser gods) of which one created this world which Gnostics determind to be "hell" (this Aeon is the Hebrew God which certain sects of proto-christians adopted as "God" and who is now by default accepted by Christians as the "Christian God") - the material world i.e. hell is the world from which gnostics with "sparks" of wisdom (parts of Sophia) wish to escape back to the non-material world/supernatural world of perfection (back to Sophia).... in a nutshell.
There are just too many Gods...!!??

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

But they do... there are books written on them I have loads?


The trouble with quoting the bible is that I don't think it is what you want it to be. The first canon was put together by Marcion, Marcions' was the first canon of "scripture" known to have been collected and the only reason that we have a "bible" is because Irenaeus had to put together his own canon of "scripture" to refute Marcions canon. Marcion is a new testament literalist (for want of a better phrase) he took certain writings which he heavily edited and took them as his canon - in all he had 11 books.

How many Gods do you have? What is your canon? I find your OP interesting as you don't define your starting point? There is no single "gnostic" cult. There is no single christianity. How is one or the other to be good or bad if you cannot define your OP?

I think I defined the parameters quite nicely with that third clip.

If you cannot see that Inquisitions and not allowing people their freedom of thought as evil, then we will never match thinking in moral terms.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Jesus didn't know what Christians were? He was a Rabbi(?) at least an apocalyptic preacher. The lad had no idea he was starting a new religion that job went to Paul.

Jesus said he would know his people by their works and deeds and that a true Christian could do all he did and more.

That standard has not ever been reached as far as I can see.

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

If you cannot see that Inquisitions and not allowing people their freedom of thought as evil, then we will never match thinking in moral terms.

I don't under stand you. You are flitting around with your terminology, groping with Youtube clips as being authoritiative and brining in "inquisitions" presumably from the middle agaes??
Can you please define your viewpoint?

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Yes it does. The whole basis of proto-Christian Gnosticism is based on there being a non-material existence from which the "soul" needs to leave. Most Gnostics believe that Sophia a lesser God created or allowed to be created pesky little Aeons (even lesser gods) of which one created this world which Gnostics determind to be "hell" (this Aeon is the Hebrew God which certain sects of proto-christians adopted as "God" and who is now by default accepted by Christians as the "Christian God") - the material world i.e. hell is the world from which gnostics with "sparks" of wisdom (parts of Sophia) wish to escape back to the non-material world/supernatural world of perfection (back to Sophia).... in a nutshell.
There are just too many Gods...!!??

You mistake our myths with our beliefs.

If you are not going to believe me when I speak of my religion and give it attributes we do not hold, I don't know where you want to go from here.

You might see many Gods out there but I only see the one that is within me.

If that second link which says we see our myths as myths and not reality, you will not believe then again, I do not know where you wish to go from here as much of what I say you will call a lie.

Regards
DL

 

[The Scotsman]

Jesus said he would know his people by their works and deeds and that a true Christian could do all he did and more.

Jesus didn't say anything like that. Again you are looking a certain texts within a quasi-politically motivated document. Jesus has little to do with the bible or Christianity.
If you want to look at Jesus and what he may have thought he meant then you need to look at for example the structure of the Ebionites and their views.