The way to fight terrorists

top gun

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 15, 2007
Messages
4,940
Location
Ohio, USA
This is the way we need to fight terrorists not send troops all over the world trying to Nation Build countries.

Just like the attack on 9-11 was done by a handful of ultra religious nut jobs that came into our country not as soldiers but as regular looking travelers that's basically the only way they can hurt us. HOMELAND SECURITY is the key. Think how amazingly good our homeland security would be if just one tenth of the money wasted occupying Iraq was spent on investigative manpower and state of the art technology right here at home.

Hats off to US Law Enforcement on this one! Great job guys!


FBI describes bomb plot
By Bruce Finley
The Denver Post
Posted: 09/21/2009

Today, 24-year-old Najibullah Zazi and his father, Mohammed, 53, are scheduled to make initial appearances in federal court.

They've been held in Denver County Jail since late Saturday, when FBI agents raided their apartment and arrested them on nonterrorism charges of making false statements.

The Zazis had broken off voluntary talks with the FBI after three days of questioning.

A New York imam, Ahmad Wais Afzali, identified as a police informant, also faces charges of making false statements in that state. If convicted, each faces up to eight years in prison.

Zazi's attorney, Art Folsom, preferred not to comment on the affidavits, spokeswoman Wendy Aiello said Sunday.

"He is at work," she said, "preparing for court."

Zazi and his father have repeatedly insisted they've done nothing wrong.

No evidence has been presented to substantiate the international plot that FBI agents announced in arrest affidavits. Assistant Attorney General for National Security David Kris said authorities have "no specific information regarding the timing, location or target of any planned attack."

He said the arrests "are part of an ongoing and fast-paced investigation."

Federal authorities based their arrests on alleged false statements made in interviews with the FBI and during "legally authorized electronic surveillance."

Najibullah Zazi, they said, gave a false story about notes on his computer. Mohammed Zazi, according to the affidavits, did not truthfully answer questions about whom he spoke with in New York. And Afzali is alleged to have provided conflicting statements on what he told Zazi during a phone call.

The affidavits reveal that FBI agents put Zazi under surveillance in Colorado sometime after he returned from a nearly five-month visit to Pakistan that started in August 2008.

Najibullah Zazi's father and his aunt and uncle have said that Zazi went to Pakistan to visit his wife in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border city of Peshawar.

According to an affidavit, Afghanistan-born Zazi during questioning in Denver on Thursday and Friday admitted attending courses "at an al-Qaeda training facility in the FATA (tribal) region of Pakistan" and that "he received instruction from al-Qaeda operatives on subjects such as weapons and explosives."

Zazi's trip, calls monitored

Federal authorities continued their surveillance as Zazi rented a car in Denver on Sept. 9 and drove to New York, documents show. Zazi and his father have said he went there to deal with a business matter involving a coffee cart he owns.

While he was there, police stopped him on a bridge leading into the city and later, when the vehicle was parked, searched for evidence and had the vehicle towed.

Zazi flew back to Colorado and learned from friends who called him that FBI agents had raided three locations in the New York City borough of Queens.

Federal agents on Sept. 11 intercepted a phone conversation in which Mohammed Zazi at one point asks his son in New York: "What has happened? What have you guys done?" the affidavits say.

Afzali, who apparently had known the Zazis in New York, advises Najibullah Zazi in a later call: "Don't get involved in Afghanistan garbage, Iraq garbage," and then tells him their "phone call is being monitored" and asks if there was any "evidence" in his car, the affidavits say.

During the search of the rental car, the affidavits say, authorities found a laptop containing a jpeg image of handwritten bomb-making notes. The notes "contain formulations and instructions regarding the manufacture and handling of initiating explosives, main explosives charges, explosives detonators and components of a fuzing system."

An affidavit says the search of a New York apartment where Zazi stayed turned up a black scale and several batteries — and that testing detected Zazi's fingerprints.

Zazi allegedly told the FBI in Denver "that if the handwritten notes was found on his computer, he must have unintentionally downloaded it as part of a religious book he had downloaded in August. He states that he had immediately deleted the religious book within days of downloading it after realizing that its contents discussed jihad," the affidavit said.

The arrest document said the handwritten notes were sent from an e-mail account in Peshawar, Pakistan, in December 2008 to Zazi.

Prosecutors in court paperwork indicated they would detain Zazi but not his father.

Bruce Finley: 303-954-1700 or bfinley@denverpost.com
 
Werbung:
One way to fight terrorists is for out government to stay out of other countries business. How many terrorist attacks have Muslims carried out in Brazil, Argentina, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Ice Land, Denmark, Mexico, etc.? What is our country doing different than these? Many buy Oil from the middle east. Many do business there.
 
One way to fight terrorists is for out government to stay out of other countries business. How many terrorist attacks have Muslims carried out in Brazil, Argentina, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Ice Land, Denmark, Mexico, etc.? What is our country doing different than these? Many buy Oil from the middle east. Many do business there.

Are you kidding? That's crazy talk. They hate us for our freedoms. At least they did after we parked our butt over in the Middle East, I guess.

But still, you are not making sense.
 
Are you kidding? That's crazy talk. They hate us for our freedoms. At least they did after we parked our butt over in the Middle East, I guess.

But still, you are not making sense.

...They hate us for our freedoms...
The next time Bin Laden broadcasts a his rhetoric, listen to what he says. Also, look up his speeches. He has never said anything about "our freedoms". He complains about our presents in the middle east and our negative effect upon Islamic culture. Why would he care about "our freedoms", that we have in our own country? He wants us out of the middle east.
They hate us for our freedoms.
Is Bush/Conservative rationalizations for terrorist motivation. It has nothing to do with reality.
 
One way to fight terrorists is for out government to stay out of other countries business. How many terrorist attacks have Muslims carried out in Brazil, Argentina, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Ice Land, Denmark, Mexico, etc.? What is our country doing different than these? Many buy Oil from the middle east. Many do business there.

I'd have to agree.

We opened a big can of worms when we started going in to Islamic countries setting up US bases. We should set up bases only where the local governments have enough consensus or control over their own population that doing so doesn't create some weird type of holy war.

Now if some state sponsor or terrorism attacks us or an ally then I can completely agree with counter strikes.

But this whole Nation Building thing is pretty ridiculous. It cost too unbelievably too much and the long term success rates just are not there. At the end of the day the indigenous people always have one GREAT advantage.

They have no place else to go... so they continue to fight.
 
Top Gun,

I agree we shouldn't waste our time nation building. I disagree though that we need to become isolationist and simply protect ourselves within our borders.

Additionally, homeland security operates by infringing on the rights of people in America... You guys on the Left thought that was a bad thing when Bush was president but you've done a 180 on rights now that Obama is in charge. Also, when plots were foiled under Bush, you guys said it was all fabricated nonsense to keep America paranoid about terrorism, and paralyzed with fear, so the American people wouldn't reject the "unconstitutional civil rights violations" of the Patriot Act.

BTW, we're using the exact same patriot act today as we did under Bush but for some reason, you Lefties are now silent on the constitutionality and dangers to our freedom that document presents.

The next time Bin Laden broadcasts a his rhetoric, listen to what he says.

During the Bush years, OBL parroted the DNC's Left Wing talking points in every speech. America is bad, we're imperialists, we went to war for oil... etc. etc.

He complains about our presents in the middle east and our negative effect upon Islamic culture.

How would you, in your infinite wisdom, go about creating a peaceful solution to the likes of OBL? What is your solution to ending terrorist actions (man caused disasters in the New Left's vernacular) against Americans?
 
Top Gun,

I agree we shouldn't waste our time nation building. I disagree though that we need to become isolationist and simply protect ourselves within our borders.

Well it's always good when we can agree on something isn't it?;)

At least we both agree that Nation Building is not really Constitutional and usually fails sooner or later anyway.

And don't get me confused with a Liberal Dove... I'm Progressive, a moderate Democrat but not really a Dove. I have zero problem counter attacking with ruthless effect or backing up an ally in distress. But I've ALWAYS agreed with President Obama (even when everyone else even most Democrats were going along for the Bush ride) that going into Iraq was an idiotic move.

This is how I'd roll if I were the President on all these places of turmoil.

Iraq:
Was no problem. Hussein in a airtight no fly zone box. I'd of left that $12 Billion dollar a month forever quagmire sit.

Afghanistan: No Nation Building... no reparations. Right after we'd established the 9-11 attack was planned out by Bin Laden in Afghanistan I'd of sent every frickin' available troop over there to scour the country for Taiban & Al-Qaeda on only a seek & destroy mission with the preconceived plan to only be there 3 years total. One year to get everyone in... one year to kill like crazy... one year to get out. In other words kill as many enemy in 3 years as possible because this is a preset victory at 3 years. The kills we make are our victory count... not establishing anything else. We seek out & kill our attackers like crazy quickly and we come home. Won't get them all... never will. But they'll certainly also know we can come back and do all it again... if that's what they really want.

Iran: This is a good one because we've now so overextended ourselves Nation Building that this possibly very serious threat is now even harder to address. But still I'd handle them without ever setting foot on their soil. I'd give them multiple highly documented by the International community chances and then set a date. At that date I'd bomb the nuclear areas in question back to the stone age and keep bombing until Iran surrendered the point. I don't care how far underground they are. Bunker busting bombs eventually have an effect and If people can't get in and out... their progress will stop cold.


Additionally, homeland security operates by infringing on the rights of people in America... You guys on the Left thought that was a bad thing when Bush was president but you've done a 180 on rights now that Obama is in charge. Also, when plots were foiled under Bush, you guys said it was all fabricated nonsense to keep America paranoid about terrorism, and paralyzed with fear, so the American people wouldn't reject the "unconstitutional civil rights violations" of the Patriot Act.

BTW, we're using the exact same patriot act today as we did under Bush but for some reason, you Lefties are now silent on the constitutionality and dangers to our freedom that document presents.


During the Bush years, OBL parroted the DNC's Left Wing talking points in every speech. America is bad, we're imperialists, we went to war for oil... etc. etc.

How would you, in your infinite wisdom, go about creating a peaceful solution to the likes of OBL? What is your solution to ending terrorist actions (man caused disasters in the New Left's vernacular) against Americans?

A lot of the problem with the Patriot Act actually WAS the administration running it. Let's not forget the mindset of that loony tunes group was that CRUSHING THE TESTICLES OF CHILDREN would be OK to get information from adults. That was a nutbag group. I know you'll not admit it... but they were.

All that said I think President Obama should go back to a new and expedited FISA court system. Mainly because you never know what "invade on a lie, crush children's testicles for info nut case might be President in the future so it's a bad policy to have left open".

I'm not a fan of the Patriot Act as a whole. Possibly some parts could be saved but in general I think it has a lot of Civil Liberties questions. (sidebar) From what I understand some of the terrorists recently caught were caught going through FISA)

So in summation:

I'm not saying we can never go outside our country to fight a terrorist group. I'm saying we don't waste time and resources staying trying to "convert" people.

And if one looks at the Homeland Security a country like Israel has we can easily see that there are all kinds of high tech and intelligence procedures that if implemented enthusiastically & broadly across our entire country we would be much safer for far, far, far less expenditure.
 
Top Gun,

Yes it is nice to agree on something... We probably agree on a great deal but its the part of how we achieve a goal that we find most of our disagreements. I want more freedom, liberty and better protections of our Individual Rights, you want more government, an expanded welfare state and the creation of collectivist rights.

We agree on Iraq too, I didn't want us to go in either, but we did and rather than crying over spilled milk, I felt we should support our troops and give them everything they needed to crush the insurgency.

As for Iran, Obama is weak on his policies. Talks and sanctions are useless, we already know the path Iran has chosen and it makes America look foolish to be out there pretending like Iran hasn't chosen a path toward nuclear weapons.

As for Afghanistan, Obama has no exit strategy and he's not fighting to win.

If the Patriot Act poses a threat to our liberties under ANY administration, it needs to be changed. The fact that you trust Obama and didn't trust Bush with the same powers shows me that your opposition to the Pat Act wasn't based on principles, you were playing dangerous, partisan political games.

You mention Israel as a model for our Homeland Security... Israel uses real torture, not the sissy waterboarding stuff, full blown torture. They do whatever they have to do in order to protect the lives of their citizens and nobody wrings their hands worrying about what the rest of the world thinks.

Israel also doesn't attack their own version of the CIA with threats of law suits and jail time for agents that worked to keep the public safe from terrorists. Lastly, Israel secures their borders and enforces their immigration policies... two things the radical left never support.

Obama is one of those Radical Leftists, he's weak on Iran, weak on Afghanistan, weak on border security, weak on immigration enforcement... this administration is weak on fighting terrorism. The Radical Left doesn't even call it terrorism, its a "man made disaster", having these politically correct imbeciles in power would be funny if it weren't so dangerous.
 
To chime in a few thoughts about nation building...

I am not sure I entirely agree with Seneca or Top Gun here entirely. While our current situation arises from past inept leadership, and current disinterest. While I am not sure disinterest is a fair term for Obama, I just see him stuck in a very hard place when it comes to Afghanistan. Which the shame of the whole thing is that Afghanistan and Iraq both could have been very successful on thier own, except we tried to do them at the same time, without being willing to devote the resources necessary to ensure the job got done.

America has had some notable successes in modern history when it comes to nation building, whether it be after military conquer or economic/military/intelligence assistance.
The issue isnt nation building, it is our unwillingness to take the measures necessary at this point in our political history in those places. McCain was not incorrect when he said that our presence wasnt the issue, it was the casualties.
 
Additionally, homeland security operates by infringing on the rights of people in America... You guys on the Left thought that was a bad thing when Bush was president but you've done a 180 on rights now that Obama is in charge. Also, when plots were foiled under Bush, you guys said it was all fabricated nonsense to keep America paranoid about terrorism, and paralyzed with fear, so the American people wouldn't reject the "unconstitutional civil rights violations" of the Patriot Act.
The so called patriot act is something I still dont like and it doesnt matter who is in charge. Nor do I think that this constant fear mongering is healthy. The problem with the right is that they love the boogey man. It doesnt matter what the issue is, the important emotion to come away from information provided is to be afriad.
How would you, in your infinite wisdom, go about creating a peaceful solution to the likes of OBL? What is your solution to ending terrorist actions (man caused disasters in the New Left's vernacular) against Americans?
I think the first major step is to understand that in a country as free as America is supposed to be, is that terrorism, or high casualty crimes are going to happen. It is a matter of how we respond to them. I like the fact that the guy from the 93 WTC bombing was arrested, tried, convited and punished in open court. As well as Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichol.
 
To chime in a few thoughts about nation building...

I am not sure I entirely agree with Seneca or Top Gun here entirely. While our current situation arises from past inept leadership, and current disinterest. While I am not sure disinterest is a fair term for Obama, I just see him stuck in a very hard place when it comes to Afghanistan. Which the shame of the whole thing is that Afghanistan and Iraq both could have been very successful on thier own, except we tried to do them at the same time, without being willing to devote the resources necessary to ensure the job got done.

America has had some notable successes in modern history when it comes to nation building, whether it be after military conquer or economic/military/intelligence assistance.
The issue isnt nation building, it is our unwillingness to take the measures necessary at this point in our political history in those places. McCain was not incorrect when he said that our presence wasnt the issue, it was the casualties.

When the former administration made all of those 'MEDIA MOMENTS' of promises to rebuild and fortify Afghanistan and then never had a plan {as in the initial invasion of IRAQ}...the constant lack of planning and if we build here and then it's destroyed by the prevailing enemy during the night, what good have we done and how do we quantify the constant monetary drain on requests for more funding for the constant cycle of build - enemy destroy - rebuild - enemy destroyed again and on & on & on & on!!!
We made promises to the collective leaders of Afghanistan and with those promises there were the verbal exchanges of who would support and allow our intrusion into their country...how do we 'NOT' back up what was promised in HOPES of getting all of those warring factions to follow a single authoritative leader :confused: I just don't see that happening...EVER, unless we do as America promised back in 2002. We will look like the biggest liars in the WORLD and shame on us for the destruction that we've brought to that country just by our mire presence!!!

Personally, I wished we had left Russia alone and actively still there...how different would all of this past 8 years of played out so differently...IMO
 
Top Gun,

Yes it is nice to agree on something... We probably agree on a great deal but its the part of how we achieve a goal that we find most of our disagreements.

See it seems like you might for once be reasonable and try and find some common ground to actually get something done... but as we will see you are as always, not.:rolleyes:

I want more freedom, liberty and better protections of our Individual Rights, you want more government, an expanded welfare state and the creation of collectivist rights.

I want freedom every bit as much as you. If I were to twist the truth like you I'd just say... Well you Gen just want a serf society where a few with power and influence control and keep down everyone else with less means effectively destroying the middle class.

There is a balance that must be met. For the whole past administration, and in some cases even before, the game has been tilted to the those with more money & power. For instance: Instead of ALL income being taxed at whatever your income bracket rate is people of means only have to pay 15% on capital gains investments. Also even though the age of life expectancy has went up greatly as have medical costs people of means pay NO, NOTTA, ZIP, ZERO social security tax on any income after $110,000 per year.:confused:

There has to be a balance my friend. We may disagree exactly where that is... but we can do that honestly & respectfully.


We agree on Iraq too, I didn't want us to go in either, but we did and rather than crying over spilled milk, I felt we should support our troops and give them everything they needed to crush the insurgency.

Again with the silly innuendo. It's not "crying over spilled milk" to say something that was wrong, was wrong and to try and change direction from that wrong. And Americans can love & support the troops (who are by the way their own sons & daughters) just as much by wanting them to come back home and out of harms way in invasion & occupation totally built on lies, misinformation and false hype trying to connect things in Iraq to the 9-11 attack.

As for Iran, Obama is weak on his policies. Talks and sanctions are useless, we already know the path Iran has chosen and it makes America look foolish to be out there pretending like Iran hasn't chosen a path toward nuclear weapons.

Well he's not weak at all... he's deliberate & intelligent and you'd better hope something diplomatic or with sanctions can be accomplished. Because the idiotic saber rattlers like Bush/Cheney have us spread so thin in two wars already that unless we draft high school kids and 50 year olds occupying a third country is a pipe dream.

As for Afghanistan, Obama has no exit strategy and he's not fighting to win.

There never is an exit strategy for Afghanistan! That's what I've been saying! Hell the whole frickin' Russian Army was there for ten years and it was still a stalemate!

To win at an insurgency one must have one thing that no one ever has in Afghanistan... a stable home country group that really wants to win. In Afghanistan between the terrain and the fact that the religious and tribal beliefs always work against ANY OUTSIDER the most you can do is go in... try and hunt down & kill off as many groups of armed fighters as possible and then come home.


If the Patriot Act poses a threat to our liberties under ANY administration, it needs to be changed. The fact that you trust Obama and didn't trust Bush with the same powers shows me that your opposition to the Pat Act wasn't based on principles, you were playing dangerous, partisan political games.

Why can't I do both? I think the Patriot Act poses a several undue threats to Americans Civil Liberties and it should be greatly modified now. I also know that between the Bush/Cheney administration and the Obama/Biden administration the latter is much more likely not to do things like TORTURE or abuse Americans Civil Liberties with the Patriot Act.

That's not a partisan political game... that's simply how I feel and actually the truth as well.


You mention Israel as a model for our Homeland Security... Israel uses real torture, not the sissy waterboarding stuff, full blown torture. They do whatever they have to do in order to protect the lives of their citizens and nobody wrings their hands worrying about what the rest of the world thinks.

Israel also doesn't attack their own version of the CIA with threats of law suits and jail time for agents that worked to keep the public safe from terrorists. Lastly, Israel secures their borders and enforces their immigration policies... two things the radical left never support.

America is a land of freedom and there will always be some security trade off for that. But I'm speaking of things like Israel has much better airport security and things of that nature. It's these things... the high tech and intelligence things here at home that will keep us safe... just as several recent arrests during the Obama administration have shown.

Obama is one of those Radical Leftists, he's weak on Iran, weak on Afghanistan, weak on border security, weak on immigration enforcement... this administration is weak on fighting terrorism. The Radical Left doesn't even call it terrorism, its a "man made disaster", having these politically correct imbeciles in power would be funny if it weren't so dangerous.

Your ridiculous analogies aside President Obama is not lying us into an invasion like Bush did and Bush had every oppertunity to bomb Iran and didn't and immagrants from Mexico looking for farm, or landscapeing or roofing work aren't our homeland security terrorist problem and you know that.

You can keep throwing that crap up against the wall forever if you like and the truth is some might even stick because some people are just stupid and some others just want it to stick...

but the truth is you're just lying to try and bash The President of the United States of America.

That is your right... but it unfortunately also makes you less than honorable.
 
The best way to fight terrorism is not to perpetrate and incite it by attacking and supportiung those who attack Muslim countries.

There are not (m)any examples of Muslim terrorism against the west that were not provoked massively by the west either by its direct and illegal activities agains Muslim countries or by its support of Muslim's aggressive enemies.

And Al Qaeda could not have committed the acts of 9/11. They could not have flown the planes. The towers would not fall down due to heat (no steel framed building ever has elsewhere) and a hundred other objections that are sufficiently strong for the issue of what really happened on 9/11 to be discussed in the UK Houses of Parliament today no less).
 
Werbung:

The way to fight terrorists​

This is the way we need to fight terrorists not send troops all over the world trying to Nation Build countries.

Just like the attack on 9-11 was done by a handful of ultra religious nut jobs that came into our country not as soldiers but as regular looking travelers that's basically the only way they can hurt us. HOMELAND SECURITY is the key. Think how amazingly good our homeland security would be if just one tenth of the money wasted occupying Iraq was spent on investigative manpower and state of the art technology right here at home.

Hats off to US Law Enforcement on this one! Great job guys!
.
>> TRUMP REGIME >>
.
 
Back
Top