US Spends more per person, covers less, gets less on health care.

[pocketfullofshells]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090312/ap_on_he_me/health_value_gap

Americans spend $2.4 trillion a year on health care. The Business Roundtable report says Americans in 2006 spent $1,928 per capita on health care, at least two-and-a-half times more per person than any other advanced country.

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but no natinal health care will cost to much...even though we spend more now then anyone who has it , on health care.

 

[HankHill]

You get what you pay for...

 

[Cookie Parker]

While very cute, it's still propaganda misinformation from wealthy drug, insurance and incorporated doctors. Our doctor's don't practice medicine here...they are just working for insurance adjustors who want to make money.

How about a real response on the issue?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You get what you pay for...

Then why do we pay more to get less?

 

[BigRob]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090312/ap_on_he_me/health_value_gap

Americans spend $2.4 trillion a year on health care. The Business Roundtable report says Americans in 2006 spent $1,928 per capita on health care, at least two-and-a-half times more per person than any other advanced country.

-------------------------------

but no natinal health care will cost to much...even though we spend more now then anyone who has it , on health care.

Does this number include the massive spending on Medicare/Medicaid, and the funding of public hospitals that are lawfully bound to turn no one away?

I would be interested in seeing the number if you eliminate all government involvement in the market, to actually see the true cost of a market based healthcare system.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Does this number include the massive spending on Medicare/Medicaid, and the funding of public hospitals that are lawfully bound to turn no one away?

I would be interested in seeing the number if you eliminate all government involvement in the market, to actually see the true cost of a market based healthcare system.

well then you need to live in a bubble and do it, becuse there is no such number. Also lets see how many people dont have health insurance with no goverment help, no public hospitals, and they are free to turn people away.

At best you will have large amounts with no health care, and a large gap in quality in terms of income. I for one do not belive that health care is something you should only get quality if you have money.

 

[Andy]

While very cute, it's still propaganda misinformation from wealthy drug, insurance and incorporated doctors. Our doctor's don't practice medicine here...they are just working for insurance adjustors who want to make money.

How about a real response on the issue?

Here's a response... Read this post by a democrat organization.

http://momocrats.typepad.com/momocrats/2008/08/healthcare-a-ta.html

Here's a quick run down.

A democrat organizer at the 2008 DNC convention, got sick. She went to a local publicly funded clinic. There she was treated like crap, waited for hours, never saw a doctor, and noticed violation all over the place.

She left there in disgust and went to a private, pay-for-service clinic. There she was treated like a person, like a valued customer, wasn't kept waiting, saw a doctor in under an hour, and left with a free sample of the medicine they suggested she take.

This is a simple case of Socialism vs Capitalism. Socialism is crap, capitalism works.

 

[Andy]

well then you need to live in a bubble and do it, becuse there is no such number. Also lets see how many people dont have health insurance with no goverment help, no public hospitals, and they are free to turn people away.

At best you will have large amounts with no health care, and a large gap in quality in terms of income. I for one do not belive that health care is something you should only get quality if you have money.

Actually, that's not quite true. You can get quotes from hospitals in India, that charge half as much, and have zero subsidies from the their Indian government.

You can claim you don't believe health care is something that you should only get quality if you have money... but attempting to reduce that will only cause health care to get worse, and the people with money will simply fly elsewhere to get quality treatment, just like people in Canada fly to the US to get quality treatment.

In short, trying to eliminate income differences will only make things worse for everyone, and the rich will just get top quality care elsewhere.

In Fidel Castro needed surgery, he had his massive jet, go to pick up his own private doctor, and all the medical equipment he needed, and fly his private hospital rental to his palace. Meanwhile, most of Cuba gets the same quality of care...


I sick world where people have actually died of starvation IN THE HOSPITAL.

So which do you want? Because honestly, one system always fails, and the other always works.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Actually, that's not quite true. You can get quotes from hospitals in India, that charge half as much, and have zero subsidies from the their Indian government.

You can claim you don't believe health care is something that you should only get quality if you have money... but attempting to reduce that will only cause health care to get worse, and the people with money will simply fly elsewhere to get quality treatment, just like people in Canada fly to the US to get quality treatment.

In short, trying to eliminate income differences will only make things worse for everyone, and the rich will just get top quality care elsewhere.

In Fidel Castro needed surgery, he had his massive jet, go to pick up his own private doctor, and all the medical equipment he needed, and fly his private hospital rental to his palace. Meanwhile, most of Cuba gets the same quality of care...


I sick world where people have actually died of starvation IN THE HOSPITAL.

So which do you want? Because honestly, one system always fails, and the other always works.

when I care about Freaking Cuba, let me know, and I will reread your post and care...

 

[Andy]

when I care about Freaking Cuba, let me know, and I will reread your post and care...

You seem to be missing the point. You said in another post that you were sick and tired of our health care system. Well, it's really easy to not like what you have, when you don't know how bad it can really be.

It's pretty easy to whine and cry about something, when you don't know how awful alternatives are.

The point with Cuba is, there are two different ideological systems by which the entire world operates. Only two. One is Capitalism, where the consumer spends money, to purchase or receive a product or service. The other is socialism, where government directly, or indirectly provides a service or product, via the money of the public.

The more you head for Capitalism, the more the system works, and people get what they pay for. The more you had for Socialism, the more it doesn't work, and people get crap.

India with a completely unhindered health care pay-for-service system, is now leading the world in tourist health service. People fly to India from all over the world to get treatments and better service, for a lower cost. That's Capitalism.

Cuba, where people have actually starved to death, is the opposite extreme of socialism. Now which way do you wish to go? More Capitalist? Or more socialist?

Let me put it another way. You said you don't like that people who pay more, get better care here in the US. Well, socialized system have exactly that. The people who have money get service... elsewhere. Those that don't, don't.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You seem to be missing the point. You said in another post that you were sick and tired of our health care system. Well, it's really easy to not like what you have, when you don't know how bad it can really be.

It's pretty easy to whine and cry about something, when you don't know how awful alternatives are.

The point with Cuba is, there are two different ideological systems by which the entire world operates. Only two. One is Capitalism, where the consumer spends money, to purchase or receive a product or service. The other is socialism, where government directly, or indirectly provides a service or product, via the money of the public.

The more you head for Capitalism, the more the system works, and people get what they pay for. The more you had for Socialism, the more it doesn't work, and people get crap.

India with a completely unhindered health care pay-for-service system, is now leading the world in tourist health service. People fly to India from all over the world to get treatments and better service, for a lower cost. That's Capitalism.

Cuba, where people have actually starved to death, is the opposite extreme of socialism. Now which way do you wish to go? More Capitalist? Or more socialist?

Let me put it another way. You said you don't like that people who pay more, get better care here in the US. Well, socialized system have exactly that. The people who have money get service... elsewhere. Those that don't, don't.

Bla bla bla your talking about cuba again, and no one cares. Its not US System as it, or CUBA..Nore Does Cuba's system even the reason for its problems . And your system you love so much here, is not a big prize to me, you know being that I had no health care for years. I dont fawn over at the great things we can do..

But you just sit back and suport paying more to cover less and think its great. I hope you lose your job, lose your health care, go broke and then get sick...or maybe a loved one will...and when you do, dont ask for government help.. maybe beg for change in the parking lot or something.

 

[Andy]

Bla bla bla your talking about cuba again, and no one cares. Its not US System as it, or CUBA..Nore Does Cuba's system even the reason for its problems . And your system you love so much here, is not a big prize to me, you know being that I had no health care for years. I dont fawn over at the great things we can do..

But you just sit back and suport paying more to cover less and think its great. I hope you lose your job, lose your health care, go broke and then get sick...or maybe a loved one will...and when you do, dont ask for government help.. maybe beg for change in the parking lot or something.

I've already lost my job, gotten sick, been in the ER twice, and I didn't ask the government for help. I paid my bills. And no, I'm not a liberal, so I don't beg for change in the parking lot. I got off my butt, got a job, and worked hard to earn the money to pay my bills. Unlike some idiots, I don't sit around whining someone else should pay for what I need.

You come across as spoiled brat of a child, pocket. Grow up.

If my arguments and explanation are too far above your head to understand, perhaps you should find some toddlers to talk to.

Sometimes I hope we do socialize everything, and I'll move to another country. You can be the one to get sick, and sit in a waiting room for 36-hours and die there. Unlike your diatribe, that actually happened in Canada.

Anyone else, someone perhaps capable of intelligent conversation, please reply. Thanks.

 

[Pandora]

I hope you lose your job, lose your health care, go broke and then get sick...or maybe a loved one will...and when you do, dont ask for government help.. maybe beg for change in the parking lot or something.

Not a very nice thing to wish for, not even on an enemy. But, Just to show you what a resilient person is made of, it would be nice if that could happen. Someone like Andy would bounce back and fast.

You can give a hundred poor people a million dollars and within a couple of years the will have no money, nothing to show for the money they had and actually be in debt to the IRS for taxes on money they long since spent. Maybe 1 in that hundred would have something to show for it but even them Id wager would not have much of the money left.

If you stripped Donald Trump down to less than a million he would have ten times that within that same period of time, and not by name recognition. Some people no matter how poor their start will show make something of themselves and some people no matter how many chances given will blow it.

There are people in New Orleans who are STILL getting government help and they will continue to get that government help till the day the government stops helping and then they will scrape by some how but they will never make much of themselves. There are others who were hit as hard and are back better than before without the government help because they are resilient people who just bounce back and don’t let things hold them down.

I have two older brothers, both are much stronger than I am, much smarter than I am and I wish I had half the talents that they both have. Both have had much more handed or given to them than I currently have. One is a recovering heroin addict living with our mother and except a 2 year period of time with a girlfriend has always lived with either me or my mother. The other is a homeless bum scrounging for his next recycling can he can turn in for the 5 cents to get that next bottle of Old English.
They have both had a number of settlements that gave them big cash starts, one has a bachelor’s degree in engineering but neither has a pot to piss in, and yes both are already getting free medical care from the state through SSI.

I have 3 years of college all paid for by myself, I did not get the help they did and I did not finish. Im ten years younger than them and have never had the help from my family that they have had or any chunk of money via settlements come my way, if I did my house would be paid for instead of still owing 13 thousand on it. I adopted one of their children and tried to foster 3 others but could not keep doing it.

Ugh I am giving too much personal information here, but the point is some people without any help can help themselves and even family while some others with more help than any one person needs can succeed in exactly nothing but making a huge mess of their life.

Ending point………Andy would bounce back and probably even have more than he does now because resilient people are like that!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Not a very nice thing to wish for, not even on an enemy. But, Just to show you what a resilient person is made of, it would be nice if that could happen. Someone like Andy would bounce back and fast.

You can give a hundred poor people a million dollars and within a couple of years the will have no money, nothing to show for the money they had and actually be in debt to the IRS for taxes on money they long since spent. Maybe 1 in that hundred would have something to show for it but even them Id wager would not have much of the money left.

If you stripped Donald Trump down to less than a million he would have ten times that within that same period of time, and not by name recognition. Some people no matter how poor their start will show make something of themselves and some people no matter how many chances given will blow it.

There are people in New Orleans who are STILL getting government help and they will continue to get that government help till the day the government stops helping and then they will scrape by some how but they will never make much of themselves. There are others who were hit as hard and are back better than before without the government help because they are resilient people who just bounce back and don’t let things hold them down.

I have two older brothers, both are much stronger than I am, much smarter than I am and I wish I had half the talents that they both have. Both have had much more handed or given to them than I currently have. One is a recovering heroin addict living with our mother and except a 2 year period of time with a girlfriend has always lived with either me or my mother. The other is a homeless bum scrounging for his next recycling can he can turn in for the 5 cents to get that next bottle of Old English.
They have both had a number of settlements that gave them big cash starts, one has a bachelor’s degree in engineering but neither has a pot to piss in, and yes both are already getting free medical care from the state through SSI.

I have 3 years of college all paid for by myself, I did not get the help they did and I did not finish. Im ten years younger than them and have never had the help from my family that they have had or any chunk of money via settlements come my way, if I did my house would be paid for instead of still owing 13 thousand on it. I adopted one of their children and tried to foster 3 others but could not keep doing it.

Ugh I am giving too much personal information here, but the point is some people without any help can help themselves and even family while some others with more help than any one person needs can succeed in exactly nothing but making a huge mess of their life.

Ending point………Andy would bounce back and probably even have more than he does now because resilient people are like that!

I dont care if its nice, I am not here to be nice. If he thinks its good enough for others, then whats wrong with me wanting to see it proved. evryone says they will bounce back, its easy...to say.

 

[Pandora]

I dont care if its nice, I am not here to be nice. If he thinks its good enough for others, then whats wrong with me wanting to see it proved. evryone says they will bounce back, its easy...to say.

Sure its easy to say but how do you know who does. Look around at those who wait for hand outs...... they dont bounce back then look at those who are living functional lives, they do.

almost everyone has been hit with something. I had cancer and after insurance over 8 thousand dollars of personal debt to the hospital... it took me a long while but I paid it, every single last dime. This came right after I broke my leg, missing a month of work unpaid and going to therapy for almost a year. That would have been enough for someone else to give up and stand on a street corner or go get thier SSI checks

Look at the people in New Orleans

They lost equally and some are still in government paid housing complaining of discrimination and others have their lives back to normal and in some cases even better off than they were before. Tragedy sometimes makes a person stronger if you have the character for it.