US warships head for South China Sea after standoff

[The Scotsman]

A potential conflict was brewing last night in the South China Sea after President Obama dispatched heavily armed American destroyers to the scene of a naval standoff between the US and China at the weekend.

Mr Obama’s decision to send an armed escort for US surveillance ships in the area follows the aggressive and co-ordinated manoeuvres of five Chinese boats on Sunday. They harassed and nearly collided with an unarmed American vessel.

Washington accused the Chinese ships of moving directly in front of the US Navy surveillance ship Impeccable, forcing its crew to take emergency action, and to deploy a high-pressure water hose to deter the Chinese ships. Formal protests were lodged with Beijing after the incident.

On a day that Mr Obama and his senior officials met the Chinese Foreign Minister, Yang Jiechi, in Washington, Beijing showed no sign of backing down. Its military chiefs accused the unarmed US Navy ship of being on a spying mission.

The US keeps a close eye on China’s arsenal, including its expanding fleet of submarines in the area. Washington says that the confrontation occurred in international waters, but Beijing claims nearly all the South China Sea as its own, putting it in conflict with five other nations that have claims over different parts of the waters.

The episode complicated fragile military relations between the US and China, which appeared to have improved after the two held defence talks in Beijing last month.

Mr Obama yesterday urged more military dialogue with China to avoid similar incidents after talks with Mr Yang, the White House said. “The President also stressed the importance of raising the level and frequency of military-to-military dialogue,” it said.

A hotline was established between the Chinese Defence Ministry and the Pentagon in April last year, but it was not used during or after Sunday’s standoff, defence officials said. The US Government immediately protested to Chinese authorities after the incident, about 75 miles south of Hainan Island.

Beijing has rejected the US account and demanded that the United States cease what it calls illegal activities in the South China Sea. The Chinese maintain the area is part of the country’s exclusive economic zone.

Washington insists that the area is part of international waters and that US ships have a legal right to operate there.

manufactured incidents to take their mind off the fact that their economy and "national" pride is going down the toilet.............

 

[BigRob]

manufactured incidents to take their mind off the fact that their economy and "national" pride is going down the toilet.............

In the legal world, China is 100% in the wrong on this one.

The People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is still pretty much a joke, but they are making strides. I am glad to see Obama send some ships, but we should ensure to defuse this should it appear to turn into a large issue.

 

[Pandora]

manufactured incidents to take their mind off the fact that their economy and "national" pride is going down the toilet.............

You describe it so well

"national" pride is going down the toilet.............

what I want to know is this

what the heck happened to the world will love us if we just pickt his idiot to rule

Arg!

 

[dahermit]

manufactured incidents to take their mind off the fact that their economy and "national" pride is going down the toilet.............

That is an interesting statement, comming from a citizen of a country that has been subject to British domination for over 300 years. It would seem that you are likely an expert in the loss of "National pride."

 

[BigRob]

what I want to know is this

what the heck happened to the world will love us if we just pickt his idiot to rule

Arg!

If anyone thought that was actually going to happen, they were kidding themselves.

 

[Pandora]

If anyone thought that was actually going to happen, they were kidding themselves.

Well.... I did not think it would happen but I was hoping for it I supose.


It would be nice to turn on the news and not find out some french or german guys did not like us.


Hey! and isnt Hillary and Bill in big with the Chinese? Why are we having problems with them all the sudden.

 

[dahermit]

What most people do not know is that the Chinese were trying to take the US Navy surveillance ship Impeccable as partial payment for all the money we own them.

 

[BigRob]

Well.... I did not think it would happen but I was hoping for it I supose.

Sadly for us hope does not drive international relations.

It would be nice to turn on the news and not find out some french or german guys did not like us.

France has been making some pretty major pro-American moves lately. While the US and Europe are going to always have their problems, Europe will, for the most part, be a reliable ally.

Hey! and isnt Hillary and Bill in big with the Chinese? Why are we having problems with them all the sudden.

It is the nature of the system. A rising power will always challenge the established powers. You can most likely count on continued tension with China for years to come.

 

[Hobo1]

Don't take any of this too seriously. Its been a long time since the world has had any real naval battles. As a former Naval Officer, I can tell you the days get long and boring when the only panorama in the distance is ocean as far as you can see. This sounds like minor tiff over international waters - something that has been a source of contention among nations for years. On the other hand, the Chinese may be curious to see if the military chain of command has been connected into the new Obama White House and how fast decisions can be made. They may be testing what Obama will do - you know see what this new president is made of.

Don't worry, WWIII is not on the horizon.

 

[Pandora]

They may be testing what Obama will do - you know see what this new president is made of.

Don't worry, WWIII is not on the horizon.

Just great, If they find out he is a spineless mold of jello we might really be in trouble

 

[dahermit]

Don't take any of this too seriously. Its been a long time since the world has had any real naval battles. As a former Naval Officer, I can tell you the days get long and boring when the only panorama in the distance is ocean as far as you can see. This sounds like minor tiff over international waters - something that has been a source of contention among nations for years. On the other hand, the Chinese may be curious to see if the military chain of command has been connected into the new Obama White House and how fast decisions can be made. They may be testing what Obama will do - you know see what this new president is made of.

Don't worry, WWIII is not on the horizon.

I wish that our Government could learn from history. All too soon the vulnerability of un-escorted and unarmed spy ships is evident again. Can our Navy say: "Pueblo"?
S.O.P sould be to have escorts in place.

 

[BigRob]

I wish that our Government could learn from history. All too soon the vulnerability of un-escorted and unarmed spy ships is evident again. Can our Navy say: "Pueblo"?
S.O.P sould be to have escorts in place.

There is a reason "spy ships" travel in the manner that they do. The question you should ask yourself is why.

 

[Pandora]

There is a reason "spy ships" travel in the manner that they do. The question you should ask yourself is why.

Why do they?

 

[BigRob]

Why do they?

Well there really is no need. It would be a waste of a ship to escort every "spy ship", especially during peacetime.

Further, if you are operating in an area with air cover, and with the 7th fleet already over there, it does not seem necessary.

This particular ship is manned by civilians, and if you are going to make the claim that you are simply doing a geological survey, why would you need a military escort?

There is a legal dimension too (depending on your view of international law), but a lot of this is up for debate. Technically it is only illegal to spy in territorial waters, but China will claim the EEZ falls under this as well (which is does not legally speaking). But given this, military vs. civilian does create a distinction.

 

[dahermit]

Well there really is no need. It would be a waste of a ship to escort every "spy ship", especially during peacetime.

There was no war with North Korea when the spy ship "Pueblo" was seized, the men were mistreated, beaten and detained for months.

Further, if you are operating in an area with air cover, and with the 7th fleet already over there, it does not seem necessary.

The Pueblo was supposed to be covered by fighters based on a carrier in the area. However, the fleet was too far away to intervene when the Korean patrol boats fired on and boarded her.

This particular ship is manned by civilians, and if you are going to make the claim that you are simply doing a geological survey, why would you need a military escort?

The Pueblo was listed as a scientific research ship. Such ships fool nobody. China knows exactly what that ship was doing. The Koreans knew what the Pueblo was doing.

There is a legal dimension too (depending on your view of international law), but a lot of this is up for debate. Technically it is only illegal to spy in territorial waters, but China will claim the EEZ falls under this as well (which is does not legally speaking). But given this, military vs. civilian does create a distinction.

Spy ship is a spy ship, there is no distinction. Nevertheless, it was a U.S. ship that should have had timely cover. It did not. The Pueblo should have had timely cover. It did not.

The congressional hearings placed the blame for the capture of the Pueblo on the fleet officers who assured the higher-ups that the fighter jets could get to the Pueblo in plenty of time if there was any trouble. Those officers continued to be promoted during their careers in the Navy.

Commander Bucher and the other officers were hailed as heroes upon their release from Korea by the president, congress and the Navy. Commander Bucher and all the other officers that remained in the Navy were never promoted again. Many gave up and retired at their present rank within a few years of the incident.

All intelligence ships (spy ships) should be covered by sufficient resources to prevent such disasters as the Pueblo. This current incident is not the first...it could have ended much worse.

Do a search on the U.S.S Liberty.

I am old enough to actually remember the Pueblo and Liberty incidents. Evidently the current Navy Officer Corps is not old enough to remember. And the most glaring fact in both incidents was how our Navy/Government abandoned the victims of the incidents.