Who agrees with Europe´s choice to ban the death penalty?

[Gipper]

I'm against the government having the power of life and death over anyone, even a convicted murderer. Throw them in a Supermax and throw away the key.

If, by some miracle, they're found later to have been wrongly convicted, then the key can be found again.

Anyway, with all the appeals, it's actually cheaper to keep them locked up than it is to execute them.

And yet it appears you have no problem with the wanton murder of those in the womb. Strange!

 

[Max Stirner]

Carefully reading thru the answers to this post, the advocates of capital punishment seem to rely on one of two arguments: either (1) a deterrence approach, attempting to curtail murder by draconic punishment or (2) an "eye for an eye" biblical approach. To the former I would like to point out that the statistics on homicide of those nations practising capital punishment such as the U.S and the People's Republic of China as a deterrent is dismal at best; to the latter I would suggest not relying solely on the teachings of the old testament as the basis for your moral convictions, you might find yourself contradicted by more modern concepts of right and wrong, such as the sharia ;-).

PS. I would have wished the author of this poll would have reserved his or her opinions as to why a forum member is in favor or against capital punishment; a simple "yes", "no" and "abstained" would have sufficed.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

There is a simpler reason for capital punishment.
It eliminates the offender.
And--it places the decision in their court.
What the Bible meant by--"an eye for an eye".
Self-defense should be the only arbiter.

 

[dogtowner]

Carefully reading thru the answers to this post, the advocates of capital punishment seem to rely on one of two arguments: either (1) a deterrence approach, attempting to curtail murder by draconic punishment or (2) an "eye for an eye" biblical approach. To the former I would like to point out that the statistics on homicide of those nations practising capital punishment such as the U.S and the People's Republic of China as a deterrent is dismal at best; to the latter I would suggest not relying solely on the teachings of the old testament as the basis for your moral convictions, you might find yourself contradicted by more modern concepts of right and wrong, such as the sharia ;-).

PS. I would have wished the author of this poll would have reserved his or her opinions as to why a forum member is in favor or against capital punishment; a simple "yes", "no" and "abstained" would have sufficed.

Christ was a recipient of capital punishment as were the two thieves with him. and He was OK with it (render unto Caesar and all). hardly an Old Testament thing. pretty simplistic on the deterrence also but you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

 

[Gipper]

This from a great thinker....makes sense to me.

“Hanging one scoundrel, it appears, does not deter the next. Well, what of it? The first one is at least disposed of.” — H.L. Mencken

 

[Aus22]

Christ was a recipient of capital punishment as were the two thieves with him. and He was OK with it (render unto Caesar and all). hardly an Old Testament thing. pretty simplistic on the deterrence also but you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

I think it would be hard to say that Christ approve of capital punishment. After all he was not killed but rose from the death. Christ said about stoning. let He without sin cast the first stone. None od us are without sin so can not kill.

 

[dogtowner]

I think it would be hard to say that Christ approve of capital punishment. After all he was not killed but rose from the death. Christ said about stoning. let He without sin cast the first stone. None od us are without sin so can not kill.

He did not know he would rise again, He only believed. Of course his faith was rewarded. He could have avoided death but did not. He could have spared the thieves death but did not. The stoning was not a civil matter but a religious judgement, the point is that He who is without sin (God alone) is who holds the right of judgement in terms of sin.

Its actually quite easy to show Christ was OK with civil judgement capital or otherwise as he was perfectly consistant on that.

 

[Pandora]

Matthew 5:38-48

New International Version (NIV)

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



Jesus said these things. They really don’t hold up with the death penalty. Also … The eye for an eye referred to in the Old Testament was not about killing. It was talking about paying back that value. If you were responsible for breaking someone’s leg you needed to do their work for them till their leg was working well enough to do their own. If you were responsible for the death of someone’s goat you needed to repay that goat.



I always scratch my head when I see Christians use the eye for an eye to justify the death penalty especially when Jesus used that exact example to say BUT I SAY TO YOU, turn the other cheek. Most parts of the OT Christians dismiss and say there is a new covenant but they like holding on to this one vs. that Jesus himself corrected….



I’ll keep scratching my head on it I suppose till I die J

 

[Aus22]

Matthew 5:38-48

New International Version (NIV)

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



Jesus said these things. They really don’t hold up with the death penalty. Also … The eye for an eye referred to in the Old Testament was not about killing. It was talking about paying back that value. If you were responsible for breaking someone’s leg you needed to do their work for them till their leg was working well enough to do their own. If you were responsible for the death of someone’s goat you needed to repay that goat.



I always scratch my head when I see Christians use the eye for an eye to justify the death penalty especially when Jesus used that exact example to say BUT I SAY TO YOU, turn the other cheek. Most parts of the OT Christians dismiss and say there is a new covenant but they like holding on to this one vs. that Jesus himself corrected….



I’ll keep scratching my head on it I suppose till I die J

Pandora I agree with your interpretation of Christianity.

 

[Pandora]

Pandora I agree with your interpretation of Christianity.

Well at least we agree on something But I am betting if you knew everything I believed where Christianity is concerned you would stop agreeing with me. Most of what I believe is considered heretical in Christian circles.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Europeans--the Mother-Lode of Murderers (and inventors of torture as an art-form) throughout history--somehow think this will "make things better".

Ask the Norwegians. Their 'peach' killed about 80 and injured around 500, killing mostly children. Cheers! He may just get 20 years for this.

Of course, there were also those two dust-ups in 1914 and 1939--which did result in around 100,000,000 horrible and unspeakable deaths when the dust settled.

Europe--just love it when they take on the role of leading the world into a kinder, gentler status.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks

 

[dogtowner]

Matthew 5:38-48

New International Version (NIV)

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[b] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.



Jesus said these things. They really don’t hold up with the death penalty. Also … The eye for an eye referred to in the Old Testament was not about killing. It was talking about paying back that value. If you were responsible for breaking someone’s leg you needed to do their work for them till their leg was working well enough to do their own. If you were responsible for the death of someone’s goat you needed to repay that goat.



I always scratch my head when I see Christians use the eye for an eye to justify the death penalty especially when Jesus used that exact example to say BUT I SAY TO YOU, turn the other cheek. Most parts of the OT Christians dismiss and say there is a new covenant but they like holding on to this one vs. that Jesus himself corrected….



I’ll keep scratching my head on it I suppose till I die J

the thing is this confuses civil matters with religious ones.

did Christ condemn his torturers ? the soldiers who hung Him up and speared Him ? no, He loved them as well as the thieves. as did the disciples by the way. the ball got put in their court to spread the Good News and so began focusing on the spiritual and less so on the corporeal.

render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (things corporeal) and render unto the Lord what is His (your soul)

 

[Pandora]

the thing is this confuses civil matters with religious ones.

did Christ condemn his torturers ? the soldiers who hung Him up and speared Him ? no, He loved them as well as the thieves. as did the disciples by the way. the ball got put in their court to spread the Good News and so began focusing on the spiritual and less so on the corporeal.

render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's (things corporeal) and render unto the Lord what is His (your soul)

But the "render unto Caesar" story was not about the death penalty or corporeal/soul matters, it was about paying the imperial tax.


Matt 22

15 Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

22 When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

 

[Aus22]

Well at least we agree on something But I am betting if you knew everything I believed where Christianity is concerned you would stop agreeing with me. Most of what I believe is considered heretical in Christian circles.

I am sure we differ in our religious beliefs. But I am a libreal Catholic so we might be closer than you think. Try it on the religious forum.

 

[Pandora]

I am sure we differ in our religious beliefs. But I am a libreal Catholic so we might be closer than you think. Try it on the religious forum.

Something we might disagree on is the trinity. Start a topic about it Ill reply