Wolves as control?

[dahermit]

Here is a rather dumb idea. Scientists are suggesting that wolves be used in National Parks to control the excess deer and elk.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...ng-wolves-to-control-deer-population/19340244

The first problem I see is that the program would cost too much money, running fences around an entire national park, capturing and importing the wolves, capturing and removing when the job was done, etc.

The alternative is to allow hunting of the deer and elk. Deer and elk are FOOD! License fees are REVENUE! Not only would allowing hunting provide recreation for hunters, unlike using wolves, it would also provide money for the state in which the park was located.

Using wolves is one of those: "Gosh, it seemed like a good idea at the time...", solutions.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Clipped from your article: It's an odd twist for a species that Americans once tried to eradicate. Bounties for dead wolves were offered as late as the 1960s, and by the early 1970s the wolf had been erased from all but a tiny corner of the contiguous United States. Protected in 1973 under the Endangered Species Act, the wolf has made a gradual comeback.

Now an animal long regarded as vermin could help eliminate the vermin plaguing national parks and many other wildernesses. Licht points to the ripple of changes at Yellowstone National Park after wolves were imported to the park in 1995. Wolves began chasing the park's elk, which meant the newly wary elk spent less time snacking. That allowed more willow trees – a favorite elk munchie -- to grow, encouraging the comeback of beavers and songbirds. Grizzly and black bears, which feast on the carrion from wolf kills, have also prospered.

Back before mankind interfered with the natural order of things...it would appear that there was a natural balance between predator & prey...but we can't seem to just leave things alone and when it comes to ranching/pasture management the natural order of things just get left out of the common sense order/way of thinking! IMHO

 

[dogtowner]

You are not going to get all visitors to wear blaze orange. Of course you will not get the wolves to not consider humans as possible meals either.

But I'll take surviva of the fittest so long as visitors can be armed.

 

[Pidgey]

Local populations of deer in Oklahoma have been rising as well. To counter, they've been extending hunting season a little more every year. Makes perfect sense to me. I think they've been slacking on game wardens, though, but have been giving them more equipment so I guess it evens out.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Dumb = to let a animal who in the wild hunts dear for food...into a large natinal park..where Wolves mostly likey lived before man anyway....

Smart....Let people run around national parks with guns...and hope no tourist get shot.


Lets retry that.

Go wolves!

 

[Bunz]

Well wolves are much more efficient at controlling game levels than humans hunting would ever be in the terrain that wolves thrive in.

We have more than enough wolves and would be happy to relocate as many as wanted.
The issue of building a fence to control thier movement is foolhearty at best though. They will quickly find a way through or around the fence if needed.

In Alaska we are having ongoing issues when it comes to the wolves of Denali National Park and the local trappers. The wolf doesnt know there is an imaginary line that changes thier status from protected to open season.

 

[dahermit]

Dumb = to let a animal who in the wild hunts dear for food...into a large natinal park..where Wolves mostly likey lived before man anyway....

Smart....Let people run around national parks with guns...and hope no tourist get shot.


Lets retry that.

Go wolves!

The problem with wolves is that they are not going to stay in the parks. Yellow Stone, Glacier, Yosemite, etc. have no fences around them. The ranchers will lose live stock to the wolves.
Lastly, Manistee national forest (like a park), in Michigan, allows deer hunting (but not "dear" hunting), with no problem with tourists being shot. Evidently you know little about wolves, deer, hunting, or "running around with guns", but feel free to express your opinion anyway.

 

[dahermit]

Back before mankind interfered with the natural order of things...it would appear that there was a natural balance between predator & prey...but we can't seem to just leave things alone and when it comes to ranching/pasture management the natural order of things just get left out of the common sense order/way of thinking! IMHO

But man did interfere with the natural order of things.
Now, just what is your "common sense" suggestion for controlling the over population of deer and elk in state parks? And perhaps you can apply your "solution" to the over population of deer that Jackson, Michigan is having, within the city, in its parks (they have hired "sharp shooters" to kill them). Also, perhaps you can suggest that Hillsdale, Michigan use your solution also, with their over population of deer that live within that little town. Please attempt to be clear and concise in you answer.

 

[dahermit]

You are not going to get all visitors to wear blaze orange. Of course you will not get the wolves to not consider humans as possible meals either.

But I'll take surviva of the fittest so long as visitors can be armed.

Of course you know that there has never been a documented case of a wild, healthy wolf attacking a human in North America, do you not?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

One of the biological arguments for using wolves instead of people with guns is that the wolves eat the weakest and improve the breed thereby, but humans take the very best, the biggest bucks, the biggest trophies and weaken the breed.

Another point is that the deer population has increased dramatically because of logging. Deer browse on brush rather than grazing on grass, so the more trees that get cut the more brush grows up providing habitat for deer.

As people continue to encroach on wilderness areas we will see more problems with hunting since deer rifles can shoot well over a mile. Like the coyotes in LA we are going to see more and more deer in residential areas--probably eating your Mother's zinnias.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The problem with wolves is that they are not going to stay in the parks. Yellow Stone, Glacier, Yosemite, etc. have no fences around them. The ranchers will lose live stock to the wolves.
Lastly, Manistee national forest (like a park), in Michigan, allows deer hunting (but not "dear" hunting), with no problem with tourists being shot. Evidently you know little about wolves, deer, hunting, or "running around with guns", but feel free to express your opinion anyway.

or...not every park is the same therefor thinking hunting can work in all or even most...is dumb..also your talking about national Forest...not a park..evne if they sound the alike...does not make them the same. Pretty sure I don't want people running around with rifles all over Yellowstone..

Also yea some wolves may get out, O no...its a horror we have to deal with actul wildlife! how ever will we make it?

and I have got to know a few deer very well...often with a Car...we have them all over here...in fact often in my yard...

 

[Bunz]

Of course you know that there has never been a documented case of a wild, healthy wolf attacking a human in North America, do you not?

Documented being the key word. Just 2 years ago one of the wolf packs who live in the Anchorage area attacked a few dogs, and I have every reason to believe it would have attacked the humans as well if they did not have a defense mechanism with pepper spray.
http://www.sciencebuzz.org/blog/wolf_attacks_in_alaska_raise_concerns

A pack of wolves in Anchorage, Alaska surrounded three joggers and attacked one of their dogs last week, the latest in a series of wolf attacks in that city.

Seven or eight wolves were involved in the incident that took place along a popular stretch of road where the three women were jogging with two dogs.

The attack came out of nowhere, according to Alycia Beirgrohslein, one of the women involved.

"They were so quiet. They just came right up on us. They were quick. The dogs had no clue. They didn't smell them or hear them - nothing," she said.

As the snarling and howling wolves began to circle them, the women held tight to their dogs’ leashes, yelling and screaming as they backed away.

"As soon as we would turn our backs to try to go, they would run up on us, and we would turn around and start screaming again, and I would spray my pepper spray”, said Camas Barkemeyer, who’s dog was attacked by three of the wolves. The women made it safely back to their car but were shaken by the ordeal, and the dog had to undergo surgery to treat its wounds.

"They were not afraid of us," Barkemeyer said. "And I'm afraid that if I was out here by myself, they would attack me. They were not afraid."

The same wolves, known as the Elmendorf wolf pack, are suspected of killing another dog just hours earlier and less than a mile away. They may have also been involved with two other dog attacks in the last month. Thirteen years earlier, the Elmendorf pack had been involved in series of dog attacks in the same region. Those attacks decreased after wildlife officials trapped and killed the lead wolves.

Wolf attacks on chained dogs are fairly common in Alaska, especially in years of little snow. In those years, moose are harder to prey upon, and the hungry predators become more opportunistic. But what’s troublesome about the recent brazen attacks is that the usually human-shy wolves seem undeterred by their presence.

State officials are requesting the military and railroad workers to frighten off wolves with rubber bullets, buckshot, and pepper spray in order to put the fear of humans back into them.

 

[Bunz]

Also, back probably 10 years ago a boy was hurt badly in Alaska when he was attacked by what otherwise appeared to be a healthy wolf.

I am not suggesting that wolves are blood thirsty for humans, more like the exact opposite but there have been cases of people being injured by wolves that are otherwise healthy or not rabid. Starvation might be a factor in these incidents. But point being is that they do happen. Also wolves can be very destructive to a dog mushing team. There have been cases where a pack of wolves going into the kennel area and can in short order kill a dozen or more sled dogs, and in many cases will not consume them, but apparently killing them out of sheer aggression.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Also, back probably 10 years ago a boy was hurt badly in Alaska when he was attacked by what otherwise appeared to be a healthy wolf.

I am not suggesting that wolves are blood thirsty for humans, more like the exact opposite but there have been cases of people being injured by wolves that are otherwise healthy or not rabid. Starvation might be a factor in these incidents. But point being is that they do happen. Also wolves can be very destructive to a dog mushing team. There have been cases where a pack of wolves going into the kennel area and can in short order kill a dozen or more sled dogs, and in many cases will not consume them, but apparently killing them out of sheer aggression.

they are dogs...Its hard to belive that they would act different then we see in evryday life with household dogs..sometimes someone gets bit.

welcome to nature folks...we cant always be the top of the food chain.

People get so bent out of shape, what if a animal attacks...well guess we kill billions of them a year...so maybe they get a few licks in...

 

[Bunz]

they are dogs...Its hard to belive that they would act different then we see in evryday life with household dogs..sometimes someone gets bit.

They might be classified as dogs, but the two creatures are entirely different beings. Having watched from a mountain top with a spotting scope over a valley just what 8 wolves can accomplish on a herd of caribou migrating through the area. It is nothing short of impressive.

welcome to nature folks...we cant always be the top of the food chain.

People get so bent out of shape, what if a animal attacks...well guess we kill billions of them a year...so maybe they get a few licks in...

I dont disagree, to a point. I wouldnt take as sharp a tone, but there are times when man is just another member of the food chain and it isnt always at the top. Living in a large city like Anchorage where there is a long running debate about large wildlife in the city at large is a highly emotional one.
People want to have nice urban salmon fisheries, and kinda get a kick out of seeing a trophy sized moose walking through downtown trailing christmas lights. They like putting thier trash out on the sidewalk the night before, or be loose with thier trash in the first place. Which leads to bears.
People also want to have nice wilderness type parks with plenty of trails for hiking biking and skiing. Then in 2008 we have 4 bear attacks in the urban area. Two of them very serious. What do you do? Where do you draw the line and allow responsible hunting in the larger urban area? Versus more people being attacked and ultimately someone is going to get killed. We need to keep in mind that this is occuring in a city of 300,000 people. The below pictures are of real live wild animals.