Anwar al-Awlaki killed in strike..only one left

[BigRob]

You lost me...

Made sense in my head.

But I think both you and I would give credit where credit is due no matter who the president happens to be. The hypocrites are the people who insisted that Bush was doing everything wrong and Obama is doing everything right, even though very little about how we fight terrorism has changed between the two administrations.

Agreed. I have no problem with Obama taking a proactive role in killing terrorists like this, even if it means killing Alwaki and expanding drone attacks etc.

Also, it ought to be pointed out that:
The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death.

Certainly, despite his American citizenship, he was guilty of this.

 

[GenSeneca]

The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death.

Certainly, despite his American citizenship, he was guilty of this.

Do you have any doubt that if the same thing would have happened under Bush that the same people praising Obama for killing this man would have been on the ACLU bandwagon about the Bush ordering the death of an American citizen without so much as a trial? I have no doubts.

 

[Openmind]

Do you have any doubt that if the same thing would have happened under Bush that the same people praising Obama for killing this man would have been on the ACLU bandwagon about the Bush ordering the death of an American citizen without so much as a trial? I have no doubts.

I would have held exactly the same position as today: I do not rejoice in any person put to death. However, I understand that saving the life of hundreds is a worthy goal, and that it is better to engage in "surgical strikes" rather than to invade a whole country and kill thousand of foreign citizens and our own soldiers.

In the case of Bush, I would have MUCH prefer for him to pursue Saddam Hussein in the same way Obama has pursue Bin Ladin and Awlaki, than to invade Iraq.

Again, most people are NOT as partisan or irrational as you seem to be!

 

[GenSeneca]

Again, most people are NOT as partisan or irrational as you seem to be!

I opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning and I opposed us hanging around in Afghanistan after eliminating the Taliban from power... I don't believe we should be nation building, or have "boots on the ground", in any country but our own.

As for being irrational, I find it irrational for you to attempt to apply a stereotype to me that clearly doesn't fit.

 

[Openmind]

I opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning and I opposed us hanging around in Afghanistan after eliminating the Taliban from power... I don't believe we should be nation building, or have "boots on the ground", in any country but our own.

As for being irrational, I find it irrational for you to attempt to apply a stereotype to me that clearly doesn't fit.

I always forget. . .you're a liberterian.

I apologize for that. I now remember that you actually started a thread about cutting down military spending and bringing ALL our troops home.

We even agreed in much on that thread!

The first part of my statement stands though. . .I blamed Bush for the invasion of a whole country, at great cost of life and money. I don't think I would have blamed him for a surgical strike on Saddam Hussein.

But that wouldn't have met his goal. . .of rallying the US population around his (stolen) presidency, or Cheney's goal to promote defense spending on armements AND defense contractors!

So, I probably blamed Bush for a lot of things. . .but I wish I had had the opportunity to thank him for a "surgical" intervention that would have saved thousands of life!. . .Never had that opportunity! It wasn't "theatrical" enough for him and Cheney.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You missed the point... Unlike Pocket, I think it's a good thing that we kill terrorists - no matter WHO our president happens to be. If this had happened while Bush was president, I have no doubt Pockets would be siding with the ACLU:

ACLU criticizes killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S. citizen, calling it a ‘dangerous’ precedent

“We continue to believe that the targeted killing program violates both U.S. and international law,” Jameel Jaffer, the deputy legal director of the ACLU, said in an interview Friday morning with Need to Know. “As we’ve seen today, it’s a program under which U.S. citizens far from any battlefield can be executed by their own government without judicial process and on the basis of standards and evidence that are secret.”​

Show me one time I said we should not kill terrorist...really come on, quit trying your little straw men arguments...Under Bush...I said use more Drones...I said send more troops to Afghanistan...I never once said don't kill them...I did say don't torture them...I did say that holding them in cells with no real trial saying they are criminals...while then saying they don't get POW status as they not Military...But they should not have rights as they are not just Criminals...and so on...Because this nation stands for something, and this nation should not Torture...Also it is again NOT EFFECTIVE...

The US Water boarded Under Orders...aka Tortured....we got nothing out of this ( spare me the rants about how it lead to getting OBL..it did not...) And the Treatment in Iraq and Afghanistan...the sad ploy of well we did not specifically tell them not to do any of that...is pure crap. The Administration knew what was going on, and pushed them and made sure to make the lines as blurred as they could...The only thing they did not count on, was it leaking what they where doing. the fake outrage at the white house was nothing but a show. But of course none of that happened in Cuba...of course not, thats very believable...they just water boarded there but would never do anything bad there...we even checked after the fact...I am sure the world will believe us...Even though we also denied all the stuff at the other prisons as well until the photos came out.


Don't be mad though, I know it must be hard to know a Liberal is in charge when we finally started going after the leadership of the people who killed 3000 Americans on Sept 11...while your side decided it was better to attack someone else to stop non existent programs.

Show me one post I ever said we should not use drones to kill them Under Bush...I will leave the site for a month...go a head, find it. You said it, back it up.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

This is absurd. The entire Iraq War, according to the CBO, cost us roughly a trillion dollars. And it is your assertion that that is the cause of all our economic problems? That is laughable, and so absurd it is hilarious.

$1 trillion dollars of war spending (which is government spending, ie stimulus to some) ruined the whole country? You really need to clarify your remark or rethink your argument.



No one in this thread attacked Obama for this mission. I doubt anyone here is sad that Alwaki is dead.



You time and time again bring this up, and yet numerous courts upheld the conviction after the witnesses recanted (parts) of their testimony. How many courts have to uphold a conviction before you are convinced?



The hypocrisy here is that you are blaming us for attacking Obama when no one did.



Yet again, you are ranting against a position that no one here has taken.



Frankly, what the hell are you talking about? Not a single person here has made any of the arguments you are ranting against. And why does it matter if the intruder is a 14 year old kid? Can that 14 year old somehow not cause harm to me or my family if they break in to my house?

actuly Ron Paul attacked Obama for this mission.

And Spending money to blow up a nation is not stimulus...Spending a trillion on building new schools, roads, power grids, and such..that is. Iraq was a waste of Money, and a waste of 4000 American lives for a fake cause.

 

[Openmind]

Ah, so it is actually the Left generally making the argument that apparently we on the Right are hypocrites for making....even though we are not making that argument?

You may not be making that argument in this forum. . .but have you watched you GOP candidates' speeches today?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I'm not condoning either one. I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It's very convenient to surmise that the events under one President create terrorists and the policy under another President don't. I guess it matters which one YOU agree with. As for me, I like a little more consistency. If it's okay to kill terrorists and shoot them in the face and dumpt them at sea which is a great insult, but a few pictures and water up the nose is forbidden, then that doesn't make sense.

In a war, you Kill the enemy...But once you capture them, we don't torture them...thats not me, thats a basic tenet of war for some time. Just like the actions a cop may have to Taz someone when brining them in...it does not mean they can then taz them in there cell because they want to, or think they will talk more if they do.

 

[GenSeneca]

The Administration knew what was going on...

What would the administration have to gain by allowing the kind of detainee abuse that went on in Abu Ghraib?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

What would the administration have to gain by allowing the kind of detainee abuse that went on in Abu Ghraib?

They believed in Torture...and as that has no value...and given the large amount of dumb ideas the Bush White house believed...I can't say why...I don't know why they decided to ignore all the evidence that the there case for WND was bad as well...or why it Ignored Memos saying Bin Ladin was planning a attack inside the US....I don't know why they leaked a CIA ops name for Revenge as if that would change the fact there was nothing in Iraq...But they did...

 

[GenSeneca]

I always forget. . .you're a liberterian.

I'm a Capitalist.

I blamed Bush for the invasion of a whole country, at great cost of life and money.

Two countries...

I don't think I would have blamed him for a surgical strike on Saddam Hussein.

BigRob would know better than I but I believe we have treaties that prevent us from assassinating the leaders of other countries.

 

[GenSeneca]

They believed in Torture...

The word "torture" is subjective. The administration waterboarded a total of 3 people and after it became a firestorm they stopped the practice in 2004. If they were the ruthless monsters you make them out to be, they would have waterboarded more people and never stopped the practice.

and as that has no value...

Your tired cliches have no value.

and given the large amount of dumb ideas the Bush White house believed...I can't say why...I don't know why they decided to ignore all the evidence that the there case for WND was bad as well...or why it Ignored Memos saying Bin Ladin was planning a attack inside the US....I don't know why they leaked a CIA ops name for Revenge as if that would change the fact there was nothing in Iraq...But they did...

Gitmo, rendition, secret CIA prisons.... You blasted Bush for all those things but now that Obama is president, and still using all of them, you're totally cool with it.

 

[Openmind]

I'm a Capitalist.


Two countries...


BigRob would know better than I but I believe we have treaties that prevent us from assassinating the leaders of other countries.

So. . .we prefer to assassinate thousands of people in those countries, and then put their leaders to death AFTER we expose them to a "trial?"

Okay. . .hypocrisy again!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

The word "torture" is subjective. The administration waterboarded a total of 3 people and after it became a firestorm they stopped the practice in 2004. If they were the ruthless monsters you make them out to be, they would have waterboarded more people and never stopped the practice.


Your tired cliches have no value.


Gitmo, rendition, secret CIA prisons.... You blasted Bush for all those things but now that Obama is president, and still using all of them, you're totally cool with it.

I am? odd last i checked I was still against them...and its one of my biggest disappointments in Obama..