Fat Albert

[PLC1]

How on earth can you think we are not taking from the rich and giving to the poor?

Rich pay not just more in taxes they pay at a higher rate. the poor pay zero taxes and in fact get things free from the government IE the richer tax payers.

Warren Buffet is an idiot who praised obama while talking bad about him behind his back. If he can not make up his mind on who he wants for president I am not shocked that he can not make up his mind on if the rich are paying for the poor.

That may be so, but he still pays less in taxes than his staff, at least as a percent of his income.

You could more easily make the point that we're supporting the poor with money from the middle class.

Who on earth is paying for my drunk brothers section 8 housing? and his food stamps?

Why you are, of course, and me, and most of the other poor suckers who are in the middle. Did you think section 8 and food stamps started with Obama, though?

How do I get a check back from the federal government bigger 3 or 4 times bigger than I paid into it? Unless the money literally grows on trees, I am getting it from the rich tax payers who are paying the way for the poor like me.

What? You're getting a check that is 3 or 4 times bigger than you paid? How? I'd like to get in on that!

Its bad enough that we extort the rich for their money but my gosh lets at least give them credit for the funds!

I'm not so sure. My dad became a Democrat the year he found out that Ronald Reagan paid less in taxes than he did. RR was governor of California at the time, and making a pretty good income. Dad was working in a sawmill.

 

[CoachV40]

I think she still does. Maybe she'll try again in '16.

Looking at the lineup last time around, both Republican and Democrat hopefuls, the only one that was worth a damn was Romney. Of course, he wasn't electable, as the Christian Right would never vote for a Mormon. Why he might legalize polygamy, or some such nonsense.

The rest of them weren't really presidential material.

Maybe if the Republicans had fielded a viable candidate, then campaigned on that candidate's qualifications and Obama's lack thereof, rather than harping on how Obama was a Marxist socialist Muslim terrorist AntiChrist born in Kenya and all that nonsense, they would have won.

Come to think of it, there's no maybe about it.

I would have welcomed Romney with open arms over McCain.

 

[Pandora]

That may be so, but he still pays less in taxes than his staff, at least as a percent of his income.

You could more easily make the point that we're supporting the poor with money from the middle class.



Why you are, of course, and me, and most of the other poor suckers who are in the middle. Did you think section 8 and food stamps started with Obama, though?



What? You're getting a check that is 3 or 4 times bigger than you paid? How? I'd like to get in on that!



I'm not so sure. My dad became a Democrat the year he found out that Ronald Reagan paid less in taxes than he did. RR was governor of California at the time, and making a pretty good income. Dad was working in a sawmill.

No food stamps did not start with obama, I do not know who it started with, just that it was a bad idea.

I also do not think that obama was the first socialist or marxist or what ever to come along, he is just really bold about it. The others did things so slow that you almost did not notice much, he does things so fast you can not help but notice, at least I can't.

How do you get more back than you pay?

Child care credit
earned income credit
are the two that got me back over 3k when I only paid in 900 to start with

State soaks me though

I dont pay for my brothers housing and I dont think most middle class people do either. They probably do not even cover their own expenses fully on the federal level. How much does the average middle class family pay in taxes?

Figure that number then figure out how much does it cost for their childs public education, roads, their part of government, military exc. and I bet they do not cover their portion. Its the rich who carry us all. Some of us they carry totally others they carry a big but they carry us, that I am sure of.

And you should tell your dad that when Reagan was president he stopped a number of loop holes the rich used.

 

[PLC1]

No food stamps did not start with obama, I do not know who it started with, just that it was a bad idea.

I also do not think that obama was the first socialist or marxist or what ever to come along, he is just really bold about it. The others did things so slow that you almost did not notice much, he does things so fast you can not help but notice, at least I can't.

How do you get more back than you pay?

Child care credit
earned income credit
are the two that got me back over 3k when I only paid in 900 to start with

State soaks me though

I dont pay for my brothers housing and I dont think most middle class people do either. They probably do not even cover their own expenses fully on the federal level. How much does the average middle class family pay in taxes?

Figure that number then figure out how much does it cost for their childs public education, roads, their part of government, military exc. and I bet they do not cover their portion. Its the rich who carry us all. Some of us they carry totally others they carry a big but they carry us, that I am sure of.

And you should tell your dad that when Reagan was president he stopped a number of loop holes the rich used.

Now, that's an interesting question.

If you go back to Buffet's secretary, her/his 60 grand a year salary would be considered middle class in most of America. If he/she pays what was it? 30%? Then that would be $18,000. Now, if you figure a hundred thousand taxpayers footing that 3.4 trillion tab, then that comes out to 34,000 per taxpayer.

So, no, given those figures, the middle class isn't paying for a proportional amount of the federal government. Of course, part of that 3.4 teradollar tab is made up through printing money and borrowing, so the average tab for that hundred million taxpayers is less than the entire 34 grand.

Looking at the local/state level, if that middle class taxpayer has a half dozen or so kids, then it is unlikely that he is paying for all of their education. The difference is made up by childless couples, and those of us whose children are grown and gone. In that case, we're making up for the money that someone else paid while our own children were being educated.

The formula for who is paying and who gets paid is complicated.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

First it should be pointed out that Cap and Trade...was a Republican idea....in fact McCain idea I recall as well. Fact is Green house Gases and Pollution need to be reduced...the Cap and Trade idea was a idea to use Capitalism to push the means to reduce ...while the left just called for reductions be forced mandate.

also if Obama is Marxist...please tell me what the Federal Tax rates where in 1987 and what they are now...Its funny when people cry marxism for lower tax rates then ever for the rich.

today is seems to the right, if someone lowers the tax rate 10% and then someone who says raise it 2% above that....even if its 8% lower still...is a COmmie....

I think some on the right should actuly go vist a real Marxist nation, so they stop making such random statements. Aslo as pointed out, the rich have some many loopholes, and such there real tax rate is lower then the middle class. Also the rich make there money different, often threw ways that are taxes less...and payroll taxes and such are capped so that after a set amount you pay in no more...meaning for evry dollar you make, you pay a smaller percent..

 

[pocketfullofshells]

No food stamps did not start with obama, I do not know who it started with, just that it was a bad idea.
.

so you think they should starve or just be forced to beg?


also why is it your somehow getting more money back then you pay in...where as I actuly pay in...why is it you seem to angry about the tax...that it seems you don't pay...then many like me, who actuly do pay. also I live in MN, where State taxes me well as well.

also think about the long term cost...of not paying for things often leads to higher other costs....Cut off help to the poor...and pay more in Police, Jails, and other areas...

 

[CoachV40]

so you think they should starve or just be forced to beg?


also why is it your somehow getting more money back then you pay in...where as I actuly pay in...why is it you seem to angry about the tax...that it seems you don't pay...then many like me, who actuly do pay. also I live in MN, where State taxes me well as well.

also think about the long term cost...of not paying for things often leads to higher other costs....Cut off help to the poor...and pay more in Police, Jails, and other areas...

I don't think that anyone should starve. I do however wish that we would remove the people from the list that are just lazy and could go get a job if they wanted to do so. Those that are unable to work, and have needs, I'm fine with their usage of the system. But their are way to many ticks sucking this system dry. In NC we have so many gimmie-grants on the system that it's almost laughable. We are insanely taxed on everything from food, gas, candy, movies, you name it and NC taxes it. So i feel the pain on state taxes. I'm not sure I completely agree with the last analogy you gave on cutting of the poor....there is more to the issue than that........

 

[Pandora]

so you think they should starve or just be forced to beg?


also why is it your somehow getting more money back then you pay in...where as I actuly pay in...why is it you seem to angry about the tax...that it seems you don't pay...then many like me, who actuly do pay. also I live in MN, where State taxes me well as well.

also think about the long term cost...of not paying for things often leads to higher other costs....Cut off help to the poor...and pay more in Police, Jails, and other areas...

Starve? No. I never said that I thought people should starve. There used to be packages called staples or something. Each week you could get the basics, cheese, flour, butter, sugar, milk, beans, rice exc. even one whole chicken in a can and with those staples you could feed your family. They were not fantastic but you could feed your family. Today go shopping and pay attention to what is in the baskets of people using food stamps, in our case, the oregon trail card. Or ask grocery checkers.... Chips, pop steak, candy exc. We should go back to the old way IMO.

As for not liking the current tax system even though it benefits me personally. I am willing to say something is wrong even when it benefits me.

as for cap and trade, being that McCain was a watered down RINO am I to accept it because a watered down RINO wanted it too?

And why is it ok and acceptable to bash watered down RINO's like McCain but don't dare say what obama is?

I had far too much to drink so if I said anything mean or misspelled I am sorry

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Starve? No. I never said that I thought people should starve. There used to be packages called staples or something. Each week you could get the basics, cheese, flour, butter, sugar, milk, beans, rice exc. even one whole chicken in a can and with those staples you could feed your family. They were not fantastic but you could feed your family. Today go shopping and pay attention to what is in the baskets of people using food stamps, in our case, the oregon trail card. Or ask grocery checkers.... Chips, pop steak, candy exc. We should go back to the old way IMO.

As for not liking the current tax system even though it benefits me personally. I am willing to say something is wrong even when it benefits me.

as for cap and trade, being that McCain was a watered down RINO am I to accept it because a watered down RINO wanted it too?

And why is it ok and acceptable to bash watered down RINO's like McCain but don't dare say what obama is?

I had far too much to drink so if I said anything mean or misspelled I am sorry

First it was alot of Republicans....McCain is just one.

2nd, show me any plan to reduce CO2 and Pollution that would not have a tax, and also not have the goverment tell them what limits they could have...and also the result must show a major Reduction of them, to help slow or stop global warming....now of course, do this under the idea that becuse most major studies show its real...and man made....you must address it. If you choose to keep head in sand and say its not real and or man made...well then you will not like any plan that does not say Pollute as you see fit, who cares....so regardless what you belive if its real or not ...tell me a plan that fits what you would not call Marxist .

 

[Pandora]

First it was alot of Republicans....McCain is just one.

2nd, show me any plan to reduce CO2 and Pollution that would not have a tax, and also not have the goverment tell them what limits they could have...and also the result must show a major Reduction of them, to help slow or stop global warming....now of course, do this under the idea that becuse most major studies show its real...and man made....you must address it. If you choose to keep head in sand and say its not real and or man made...well then you will not like any plan that does not say Pollute as you see fit, who cares....so regardless what you belive if its real or not ...tell me a plan that fits what you would not call Marxist .

a bunch of republicans were the first to say we had global warming and raising taxes were the answer?

Plant more trees or kill all the cows if you really think man is causing global warming. I do not think its been proven at all and I dont think my head has been in the sand.

Turning the USA to a third world country by reducing our industry and over taxing our citizens to give the money to current third world countries so they can pollute to what ever amount they want sounds to me like a really retarded way to help "global warming" Hell I wish there was some global warming, it was the coldest 4th of july in my memory

 

[CoachV40]

I'm not sure if this has occurred yet, but as of late 2009 Gore was set to become the first "carbon billionaire." I'm not sure if he has crossed over that line yet, but as with anything political you need to just follow the money. That is all this situation or "theory" is or ever will be, just plain and simple politics. Anyone can look at this and see this far from scientific especially when the causes and facts of the "science" seem to change almost daily. I mean at first Co2 was the major cause of warming, but now its soot and methane gases that are the main culprits. That is directly from Gore's mouth in a Newsweek interview. Back to the money trail............Gore's investment company, Generation Investment Management, which sells carbon offset opportunities, is the largest shareholder of CCX. Who is CCX? The Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) they are set up to use the theory of man made global warming as a tool to make large profits and for social engineering. Guess who is the majority share holder of CCX, you guessed it Al Gore.

Kyoto hoax- The Kyoto Protocol would cost the American taxpayers some $300 to $400 billion and wouldn’t stop whatever warming is caused by greenhouse-gas emissions. In fact, Tom Wigley of the National Center for Atmosphere Research calculated that the full global implementation of Kyoto would only prevent 0.07 degrees Celsius of global warming by 2050, which is all but undetectable.

I'm Melting, I'm Melting:

Everyone knows there is melting polar ice — there has been for centuries. They claim greenhouse emissions could be committing the world to a catastrophic sea-level rise.

There are two ice sheets, Greenland and Antarctic. It’s not melting sea ice that causes sea levels to rise, but when land sheets melt. As climate scientist Patrick J. Michael’s states: “What has happened is that Antarctica has been gaining ice.” Only one tiny portion of the continent —- the Antarctic Peninsula — has been warming and the ice melting and the peninsula only constitutes about 2 percent of the Antarctica’s total area. This is the area people like Sestak, Gore and the ICLEI (International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives) concentrate on and try to alarm the public.

Curt Davis (URSI), using satellite measurements to calculate changes in the ice sheets elevation, found it gained 45 billion tons of ice per year between 1992 and 2003, which is enough to lower sea levels by about 0.12 millimeters annually. Today’s alarmists only look at what’s falling off the sides and not what’s building up top.

As they claim, if today’s temperatures are causing Greenland’s coastal ice to slide into the sea, it must have been 10 times worse 80 years ago. Between 1915 and 1965 it was even warmer. All this was before fossil fuel burning could have triggered global warming.

There is no scientific evidence that the Greenland ice sheet is melting due to increased temperatures caused by atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide.

This was taken from Delaware County, PA Delco Times. January of 2010

 

[Gipper]

I'm not sure if this has occurred yet, but as of late 2009 Gore was set to become the first "carbon billionaire." I'm not sure if he has crossed over that line yet, but as with anything political you need to just follow the money. That is all this situation or "theory" is or ever will be, just plain and simple politics. Anyone can look at this and see this far from scientific especially when the causes and facts of the "science" seem to change almost daily. I mean at first Co2 was the major cause of warming, but now its soot and methane gases that are the main culprits. That is directly from Gore's mouth in a Newsweek interview. Back to the money trail............Gore's investment company, Generation Investment Management, which sells carbon offset opportunities, is the largest shareholder of CCX. Who is CCX? The Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) they are set up to use the theory of man made global warming as a tool to make large profits and for social engineering. Guess who is the majority share holder of CCX, you guessed it Al Gore.

Kyoto hoax- The Kyoto Protocol would cost the American taxpayers some $300 to $400 billion and wouldn’t stop whatever warming is caused by greenhouse-gas emissions. In fact, Tom Wigley of the National Center for Atmosphere Research calculated that the full global implementation of Kyoto would only prevent 0.07 degrees Celsius of global warming by 2050, which is all but undetectable.

I'm Melting, I'm Melting:

Everyone knows there is melting polar ice — there has been for centuries. They claim greenhouse emissions could be committing the world to a catastrophic sea-level rise.

There are two ice sheets, Greenland and Antarctic. It’s not melting sea ice that causes sea levels to rise, but when land sheets melt. As climate scientist Patrick J. Michael’s states: “What has happened is that Antarctica has been gaining ice.” Only one tiny portion of the continent —- the Antarctic Peninsula — has been warming and the ice melting and the peninsula only constitutes about 2 percent of the Antarctica’s total area. This is the area people like Sestak, Gore and the ICLEI (International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives) concentrate on and try to alarm the public.

Curt Davis (URSI), using satellite measurements to calculate changes in the ice sheets elevation, found it gained 45 billion tons of ice per year between 1992 and 2003, which is enough to lower sea levels by about 0.12 millimeters annually. Today’s alarmists only look at what’s falling off the sides and not what’s building up top.

As they claim, if today’s temperatures are causing Greenland’s coastal ice to slide into the sea, it must have been 10 times worse 80 years ago. Between 1915 and 1965 it was even warmer. All this was before fossil fuel burning could have triggered global warming.

There is no scientific evidence that the Greenland ice sheet is melting due to increased temperatures caused by atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide.

This was taken from Delaware County, PA Delco Times. January of 2010

Only a fool believes man caused global warming. And, apparently there are a lot of fools walking around because the Sex Poodle has gotten rich off of promoting a lie.

It is very hot here today. Must be global warming so we must stop CO2 emissions. So thinks a fool in July.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

a bunch of republicans were the first to say we had global warming and raising taxes were the answer?

Plant more trees or kill all the cows if you really think man is causing global warming. I do not think its been proven at all and I dont think my head has been in the sand.

Turning the USA to a third world country by reducing our industry and over taxing our citizens to give the money to current third world countries so they can pollute to what ever amount they want sounds to me like a really retarded way to help "global warming" Hell I wish there was some global warming, it was the coldest 4th of july in my memory

you failed, I want you to give me a plan that does not raise taxes at all and puts no restrictions on them.....AND would actuly address global warming...and do this under the asumtion that yes its real ( like the UN, And even Bush White House report, and evry other major report has said.

Republicans who got there head out of the sand said tax and trade....while the liberals who all had theres out already said just Cap and regulate.

 

[Pandora]

you failed, I want you to give me a plan that does not raise taxes at all and puts no restrictions on them.....AND would actuly address global warming...and do this under the asumtion that yes its real ( like the UN, And even Bush White House report, and evry other major report has said.

Republicans who got there head out of the sand said tax and trade....while the liberals who all had theres out already said just Cap and regulate.

I failed? Well ok but you cannot expect me to lay out a comprehensive plan to cut co2 in the United States without you explaining to me how it will help.

Our cutting co2 so that China and India and other countries can keep doing exactly the same thing if not making more co2 wont lower co2 around the world. So first explain to me how turning America into a 3d world country will help the planet while India and China and others do nothing at all to lower co2. Once I can wrap my pee wee brain around that, I can start coming up with a comprehensive plan to destroy our country and make libs all around the world happy

 

[PLC1]

I'm not sure if this has occurred yet, but as of late 2009 Gore was set to become the first "carbon billionaire." I'm not sure if he has crossed over that line yet, but as with anything political you need to just follow the money. That is all this situation or "theory" is or ever will be, just plain and simple politics. Anyone can look at this and see this far from scientific especially when the causes and facts of the "science" seem to change almost daily. I mean at first Co2 was the major cause of warming, but now its soot and methane gases that are the main culprits. That is directly from Gore's mouth in a Newsweek interview. Back to the money trail............Gore's investment company, Generation Investment Management, which sells carbon offset opportunities, is the largest shareholder of CCX. Who is CCX? The Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) they are set up to use the theory of man made global warming as a tool to make large profits and for social engineering. Guess who is the majority share holder of CCX, you guessed it Al Gore.

Kyoto hoax- The Kyoto Protocol would cost the American taxpayers some $300 to $400 billion and wouldn’t stop whatever warming is caused by greenhouse-gas emissions. In fact, Tom Wigley of the National Center for Atmosphere Research calculated that the full global implementation of Kyoto would only prevent 0.07 degrees Celsius of global warming by 2050, which is all but undetectable.

I'm Melting, I'm Melting:

Everyone knows there is melting polar ice — there has been for centuries. They claim greenhouse emissions could be committing the world to a catastrophic sea-level rise.

There are two ice sheets, Greenland and Antarctic. It’s not melting sea ice that causes sea levels to rise, but when land sheets melt. As climate scientist Patrick J. Michael’s states: “What has happened is that Antarctica has been gaining ice.” Only one tiny portion of the continent —- the Antarctic Peninsula — has been warming and the ice melting and the peninsula only constitutes about 2 percent of the Antarctica’s total area. This is the area people like Sestak, Gore and the ICLEI (International Council of Local Environmental Initiatives) concentrate on and try to alarm the public.

Curt Davis (URSI), using satellite measurements to calculate changes in the ice sheets elevation, found it gained 45 billion tons of ice per year between 1992 and 2003, which is enough to lower sea levels by about 0.12 millimeters annually. Today’s alarmists only look at what’s falling off the sides and not what’s building up top.

As they claim, if today’s temperatures are causing Greenland’s coastal ice to slide into the sea, it must have been 10 times worse 80 years ago. Between 1915 and 1965 it was even warmer. All this was before fossil fuel burning could have triggered global warming.

There is no scientific evidence that the Greenland ice sheet is melting due to increased temperatures caused by atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide.

This was taken from Delaware County, PA Delco Times. January of 2010

That is interesting. So, is Al Gore beating the global warming drum in order to make money, as that article would suggest?

Quite possibly, but unproven.

If Al Gore stands to make money on cap and trade, does that mean that global warming isn't real?

What possible connection could there be?

Al Gore is not a scientist. He is a politician. if he is making noise about climate change for personal profit, as is suggested in the article, that's really too bad. It shows exactly what I just said: There isn't anything effective that we can or will do about climate change.

So, go ahead and say it isn't real. It doesn't matter.

Here's a link to CXX, along with a list of members. I didn't notice Gore's name there. Maybe I missed it.