First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity law

[Popeye]

I'm happy to see this woman has finally been relieved from her pain, I'm also gratified to see the new law being exercised which, despite the efforts of the right wing mostly out of state religious fascists, passed with 58% of the vote.

The 66-year-old Sequim woman who is the first person to die under Washington's new assisted-suicide law had only recently been diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer and decided to end her life when her pain became unbearable, according to the organization that sponsored the law.

---------

Fleming's friend Virginia Peterhansen said that after Fleming was diagnosed last month with stage 4 pancreatic cancer, her disease progressed rapidly and her pain worsened dramatically.

It became difficult for Fleming to swallow and the medications sapped her energy.

"The pain became unbearable, and it was only going to get worse," Fleming said in a statement released today by Compassion & Choices of Washington.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009251386_websuicide22m.html

 

[Hobo1]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

Somehow I missed the fact that the State of Washington had passed this law. As someone who watched both parents suffer from long illnesses before finally passing away, this is welcome news to me.

The thought of being kept alive indefinitely while under extreme pain is perhaps one of the worst forms of torture I can imagine. Allowing someone to end their life with dignity seems like the ultimate human right.

I hope these kind of laws spread to other states quickly.

 

[Pandora]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I'm happy to see this woman has finally been relieved from her pain, I'm also gratified to see the new law being exercised which, despite the efforts of the right wing mostly out of state religious fascists, passed with 58% of the vote.




http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009251386_websuicide22m.html

I hope your DWD is better than the first one that came to Oregon. Do you know how they go about it?

The first one in Oregon was pretty terrible. I think it would have taken more than the month this woman took. You needed to get a second opinion on your terminal illness, and I thought that was good. Then you needed to see a therapist of some sort to make sure you were serious and not just depressed, and then you could see the doctor who would help you with the suicide.

The above I thought was pretty fair considering, but once you saw the doctor who would help you commit suicide is where I had problems. The doctor gave you a prescription for approximately 50 pills you took over a 2-3 day period of time at home. The pills made you terribly sick and I guess if you were lucky they would kill you. Some people ended up in the emergency room not dead but just very very sick.

I don’t understand why they could not give them a single pill that would end their life immediately without pain or why they had to go home to do it alone unless that is what they wanted. Or why not do what we do for our dogs and give them that gas that makes them fall asleep without pain.

Our DWD was made illegal again partly because too many adults of older people were doctor shopping till they found doctors who would give the pills because the children of older people insisted their parents wanted to die even though the parents were not always giving that same information and because it had a high fail rate and because Janet Reno called for it before she left the Clinton Administration. Ashcroft took over under the Bush Administration and finished what Rino started.

Oregon supposedly fixed the problems and its legal here again, I have not heard of anyone using it or any complications with it this time around so it might be better than it was.

Do you know how the suicide is performed in your state? Do you know if the person seeking it needs a second opinion or needs to see a shrink before getting it done? I am a bit shocked that this lady was diagnosed just a month ago and now is dead. It seems like either your government process is much quicker than ours or you guys are skipping some of the steps we do.

 

[Hobo1]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

If a person wants to die, they can blow their brains out with a shotgun. It is a terrible way for the family to see their family member with blood and guts all over the room.

Obviously, if someone wants to die, they can find a way to commit suicide. Yet, as a society, we struggle with the issue of assisted suicide so someone can die with dignity (i.e., no blood). It is as if we, as a society have the right to tell someone they can live or die. To me the right to die is one of the most basic human liberties.

Yet, as you point out, most rules about assisted suicide include some "moral protections" e.g., see a shrink first, use drugs that are not 100% effective and painful.

I am 63 years old. When I am ready to die, I would love to walk into a "death ward" in a hospital (or the vet's office), and just sign on the dotted line. My body, my life, my choice.

But as it stands right now, I am tired of having to deal with bureaucracy/ inefficiencies/ regulations at every level of my life. I sure am not going to patiently wait until the system finally dots the i's and crosses the T's - so it will probably be a shotgun for me. In the meantime, I will try to work to change the rules.

 

[Popeye]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I hope your DWD is better than the first one that came to Oregon. Do you know how they go about it?

The first one in Oregon was pretty terrible. I think it would have taken more than the month this woman took. You needed to get a second opinion on your terminal illness, and I thought that was good. Then you needed to see a therapist of some sort to make sure you were serious and not just depressed, and then you could see the doctor who would help you with the suicide.

The above I thought was pretty fair considering, but once you saw the doctor who would help you commit suicide is where I had problems. The doctor gave you a prescription for approximately 50 pills you took over a 2-3 day period of time at home. The pills made you terribly sick and I guess if you were lucky they would kill you. Some people ended up in the emergency room not dead but just very very sick.

I don’t understand why they could not give them a single pill that would end their life immediately without pain or why they had to go home to do it alone unless that is what they wanted. Or why not do what we do for our dogs and give them that gas that makes them fall asleep without pain.

Our DWD was made illegal again partly because too many adults of older people were doctor shopping till they found doctors who would give the pills because the children of older people insisted their parents wanted to die even though the parents were not always giving that same information and because it had a high fail rate and because Janet Reno called for it before she left the Clinton Administration. Ashcroft took over under the Bush Administration and finished what Rino started.

Oregon supposedly fixed the problems and its legal here again, I have not heard of anyone using it or any complications with it this time around so it might be better than it was.

Do you know how the suicide is performed in your state? Do you know if the person seeking it needs a second opinion or needs to see a shrink before getting it done? I am a bit shocked that this lady was diagnosed just a month ago and now is dead. It seems like either your government process is much quicker than ours or you guys are skipping some of the steps we do.

Ashcroft was attempting to block Oregon's law but that was rejected in 2006 by the SC..setting the stage for Wa to pass their own version.

Under our new law, the patient must be declared competent and 2 doctors must certify that he/she has a terminal condition and six months or less to live...

 

[Pandora]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

If a person wants to die, they can blow their brains out with a shotgun. It is a terrible way for the family to see their family member with blood and guts all over the room.

Obviously, if someone wants to die, they can find a way to commit suicide. Yet, as a society, we struggle with the issue of assisted suicide so someone can die with dignity (i.e., no blood). It is as if we, as a society have the right to tell someone they can live or die. To me the right to die is one of the most basic human liberties.

Yet, as you point out, most rules about assisted suicide include some "moral protections" e.g., see a shrink first, use drugs that are not 100% effective and painful.

I am 63 years old. When I am ready to die, I would love to walk into a "death ward" in a hospital (or the vet's office), and just sign on the dotted line. My body, my life, my choice.

But as it stands right now, I am tired of having to deal with bureaucracy/ inefficiencies/ regulations at every level of my life. I sure am not going to patiently wait until the system finally dots the i's and crosses the T's - so it will probably be a shotgun for me. In the meantime, I will try to work to change the rules.

I have no problems with suicide, I would like some rules to be in place so people can not doctor shop to “off” their parents
because they are afraid their inheritance is sucked away with medical bills for their moms and dads.

If a person wants to die for what ever reason that’s their own choice, I don’t even think it should just be people with terminal illnesses, just so long as it’s that person’s choice and not their kids, wife or grandkids decision.

I also think it should be something more than a pile of pills you take at home; I like your idea of a death ward and some painless and quick way to have it done if one chooses it.

I am against abortion because it’s someone making the choice of life or death for the baby but when it comes to killing your own self, that’s another story all together, and I am not against it.

I hope if you ever decide to commit suicide you don’t have to use a shot gun and have a more humane way, better yet I hope you never need to do it, I would rather you live a great life and die naturally and pain free when your ready to move on.

 

[Pandora]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

Ashcroft was attempting to block Oregon's law but that was rejected in 2006 by the SC..setting the stage for Wa to pass their own version.

Under our new law, the patient must be declared competent and 2 doctors must certify that he/she has a terminal condition and six months or less to live...

Ashcroft finished what Reno had started, go back and look it up


I am glad they have to be declared competent by two doctors, do you know if it’s the same 50 pills and go home stuff or did your state come up with a better and less painless idea?

 

[samsara15]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

If a person wants to die, they can blow their brains out with a shotgun. It is a terrible way for the family to see their family member with blood and guts all over the room.

Obviously, if someone wants to die, they can find a way to commit suicide. Yet, as a society, we struggle with the issue of assisted suicide so someone can die with dignity (i.e., no blood). It is as if we, as a society have the right to tell someone they can live or die. To me the right to die is one of the most basic human liberties.

Yet, as you point out, most rules about assisted suicide include some "moral protections" e.g., see a shrink first, use drugs that are not 100% effective and painful.

I am 63 years old. When I am ready to die, I would love to walk into a "death ward" in a hospital (or the vet's office), and just sign on the dotted line. My body, my life, my choice.

But as it stands right now, I am tired of having to deal with bureaucracy/ inefficiencies/ regulations at every level of my life. I sure am not going to patiently wait until the system finally dots the i's and crosses the T's - so it will probably be a shotgun for me. In the meantime, I will try to work to change the rules.

I hate to tell you this, but even people who attempt suicide with a gun often fail, and failing is both very painful and very expensive. Lots of luck, though.

 

[Hobo1]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I hate to tell you this, but even people who attempt suicide with a gun often fail, and failing is both very painful and very expensive. Lots of luck, though.

I guess you are not familiar with the difference between a "gun" and a "shotgun". Many people attempt suicide as a way of getting attention - they really have no intent to kill themselves. And yes, a small caliber gun may not kill you. BUT, a shotgun blast in the mouth takes out the entire brain! No good luck or bad luck about it - your 100% dead, 100% of the time.

You should really try shooting a shotgun sometime - it's quite a shocking experience to feel the power and the devastation of the blast.

Why do I think that is not your idea of fun?

 

[top gun]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

Somehow I missed the fact that the State of Washington had passed this law. As someone who watched both parents suffer from long illnesses before finally passing away, this is welcome news to me.

The thought of being kept alive indefinitely while under extreme pain is perhaps one of the worst forms of torture I can imagine. Allowing someone to end their life with dignity seems like the ultimate human right.

I hope these kind of laws spread to other states quickly.

I'm sorry you & your family had to go through that. And I too am glad the Washington decision went through.

There's just no reason why if a person is declared TERMINAL and in great pain and wants to go peacefully that they should be forced to stay alive.

And in some cases I think forcing people to stay alive is almost a medical racket. They drain every last dollar out of your estate while they know you are suffering and want to just go. This happened with my grandmother. She literally had over a million dollars cash plus personal property and when it was all over she only had less than a couple hundred thousand in her estate that she left to her only child... my Mom.

Now I don't care if someone spends their whole estate and then is on Medicare if they have that fight in them. Great for them! But if it's not that way for the individual then it should be their choice.

Hey look at that... the word "Choice". It works in multiple applications.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I have no problems with suicide, I would like some rules to be in place so people can not doctor shop to “off” their parents
because they are afraid their inheritance is sucked away with medical bills for their moms and dads.

If a person wants to die for what ever reason that’s their own choice, I don’t even think it should just be people with terminal illnesses, just so long as it’s that person’s choice and not their kids, wife or grandkids decision.

I also think it should be something more than a pile of pills you take at home; I like your idea of a death ward and some painless and quick way to have it done if one chooses it.

I am against abortion because it’s someone making the choice of life or death for the baby but when it comes to killing your own self, that’s another story all together, and I am not against it.

I hope if you ever decide to commit suicide you don’t have to use a shot gun and have a more humane way, better yet I hope you never need to do it, I would rather you live a great life and die naturally and pain free when your ready to move on.

what about trusting the free market?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I hate to tell you this, but even people who attempt suicide with a gun often fail, and failing is both very painful and very expensive. Lots of luck, though.

Failing is not realy the right term alot of times...fact is they did not want to succeed in the first place....if you realy want to kill yourself, 99% of the time, you can do it the first time.

 

[Hobo1]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

This issue of people transitioning from life to death is going to take on increased importance as techniques for keeping people alive continue to proliferated. When machines and technology are used to keep people alive and the "hand of God" is over-ruled by the hand of a doctor (or the artificial intelligence of a computer), we run into some very sticky moral ground.

As you say, the cost of keeping somebody alive indefinitely is going to overwhelm the ability of society (either as an individual or as a group) to pay this bill. I am convinced the cost of health care is outstripping the cost of inflation because health care corporations and biomedical companies continue to produce expensive life extending machines and medicines.

Normally our capitalistic system will stop the production of products that are too expensive to pay for. But our health care system has taken the taken the Hippocratic oath of "do no harm", and changed it into "nothing is too good for the patient". The cost of state-of-the-art medical care in American has long ago outstripped our ability as a society to pay for these very expensive processes.

Just as we are not debating the issue of "when does the right to life begin?", we must also address the issue of "when does the right to life end?".

 

[Pandora]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

I guess you are not familiar with the difference between a "gun" and a "shotgun". Many people attempt suicide as a way of getting attention - they really have no intent to kill themselves. And yes, a small caliber gun may not kill you. BUT, a shotgun blast in the mouth takes out the entire brain! No good luck or bad luck about it - your 100% dead, 100% of the time.

You should really try shooting a shotgun sometime - it's quite a shocking experience to feel the power and the devastation of the blast.

Why do I think that is not your idea of fun?

Shotguns are more deadly than handguns? I dont know much about guns but the people who want to ban hand guns have always said how dangerous they are, I always figured they must be more dangerous.

ok back to topic

Good to know a shot gun is better for suicide than a handgun, I would have thought the hand gun was better.

 

[Pandora]

Re: First person takes control of their own death under Wa state's Death with Dignity

Just as we are not debating the issue of "when does the right to life begin?", we must also address the issue of "when does the right to life end?".

Your right to life never ends just like it never begins. No one should take your life from you but you can give it up free if you want. It just should never be taken away from you because another person decided you are not valuable or worth living.