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Getting rid of electoral college

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by EveryB, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. EveryB

    EveryB New Member

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    I don't think that U.S. needs electoral college anymore. Technology has advanced enough that we can elect presidents through popular votes.

    Electoral college is eliminating chances of smaller presidential candidates.
     
  2. samsara15

    samsara15 Member

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    Eliminating the Electoral College is a good idea, but the smaller and less populous states will never give up the power they have.
     
  3. Augury

    Augury New Member

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    What's the diff?
    When only pre-appointed people by the super rich has the money to run for office, what good is your choice?

    Also, in Sarasota, a woman running for office decided to check out the voting machines, she voted for herself but the opponent came up with the vote. All of this was in the newspaper and no one seems to care about it.

    Only a better class of people can make a better government.

    Samosa:
    Money and land for my friends.
    bullets for my enemies
    and a stick across the back for the indifferent.
     
  4. Sjoko

    Sjoko New Member

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    Proportional representation is the only real way of electing representatives according to the wish of the people. Therefore systems based on proportional representation provide for true democracy.
    Unfortunately the US system is far removed from a real representation of people's wishes and interests.
     
  5. Nammy

    Nammy Guest

    Can you elaborate on how a proportional representation provides true democracy?
     
  6. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    It doesn't. America is a republic. Always has been, always will.
     
  7. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    America was a Consitutional Republic, became a Democracy, and now most closely resembles a Fascist Oligarchy.
     
  8. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Oh God. Another one of these wingnuts.

    TVBrain -- (a) Tell me how America was ever a straight democracy. We have the occasional referendum, but that's it. America elects people to represent and vote in place of them. In a true democracy, the people vote on every issue.

    (b) I'd also like you to elaborate on calling America a "Fascist Oligarchy". It's ironic really, because if we were living under a fascist system, you'd be sent to the gulag for comments like this.
     
  9. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    a. Absolutely, America was never a straight democarcy by the book definition.

    b. "you'd be sent to the Gulag" - nice talking points. Systems of government change. A political system does not have to be a carbon copy of Mussolini's Italy to be fascist.

    American Fascism - Rampant Nationalism and Racism, a disdain for human rights, Controlled Mass Media, Supremacy of Military and National Security over domestic issues, Religion and government intertwined, Corporate power is protected while labor power is suppressed, Cronyism and corruption, fradulent elections, the list goes one.

    Our Government does not have a dictator, but our President acts like one. the end of checks and balances, the erosion of the constituion, the loss of civil liberties, signing statements, I AM THE DECIDER.

    An Oligarcy, a form of government in which all power is vested in a few persons or in a dominant class or clique; government by the few. In America all the power rests with the Elite. Wealth is Power.

    Of the People, For the People, and By the People has become... Of the Elite, For the Rich, and Buy the Corrupt.
     
  10. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Nice generalizations. You could point to virtually any country and it will have certain fascist elements.

    Patriotism -- sure.

    Racism -- exists everywhere, yet it's not as bad here as it used to be or as bad it is in other countries (especially Muslim ones). America, more than any other country, is a melting pot formed by immigrants from all over the world who have adopted (until recently) core American ideals and values.

    Emphasis on Nat'l Security -- we were attacked 8 months into the President's term. That kind of changes things in regards to national security and defense concerns. Unfair assertion

    Religion -- Christianity has been an inherent aspect of this country since it's inception (http://houseofpolitics.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1241&postcount=3)

    Corporate power -- another dubious talking point. The curbing of the power of labor unions is not nearly as aggressive as it has been previously in American history (late 19th/early 20th century). In fact, I would argue that labor unions are seeing a sharp increase in power and collective leverage against corporations.

    Corruption -- show me one country in the history of mankind that wasn't susceptible to corruption. A constant in politics.

    Fraudulent elections -- yeah, like Gore supporters in Florida not being able to figure out how to vote on a simple butterfly ballot that 2nd graders could easily navigate.

    Instead of blind accusations, I'd like you to provide some substance. Exactly where has the checks and balances gone? Were the Democrats not elected to the House and Congress? Does the Supreme Court have unanimous decisions in favor of conservatism in every case? Who has lost what civil liberties (other than terrorists)?

    I agree to a certain extent. We need another Reagan-like figure who will be able to reduce the size of the gov't and all the beauraucratic nonsense to reasonable levels. It's just so hard to find people these days who are willing to limit their own power.

    Most Americans don't want to rely on the government. Why? Because it just makes everything take longer, more expensive, and less successful. As my hero, General George S. Patton (US 3rd Army) said, "people will surprise you with their ingenuity."
     
  11. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    agreed that this is the way things are, does not mean they should be.

    Corporate Power has increased dramatically under the Bush administration. You have a very good understanding of right wing talking points and are an intelligent person. i challenge you to step out of your comfort zone and read something that doesn't placate your already made up mind.

    Not being able to grasp the fact that the corporate world and the elite families of bankers and industrialist play a major role in US and foreign policy is just not seeing the whole picture and having a narrow minded understanding of history. The corporate world comes first when it comes to any form of policy in american gov't. When you have a system that operates as such, you have an Oligarchy.

    "susceptible to corruption" ? If that helps you sleep at night. Yes corruption is a part of politics. This administration has taken it to a whole new level.

    Again this shows a very low level of research and knowledge of an issue that is painful for the conservative right to debate. You haven't a clue on what happened in Florida where 80,000 voters in democratic districts where removed from the voter role because they were convicted of crimes in the future. seriously. Where Republican (aides, advisers, campaign organizer) cronies showed up to protest recounts and halt investigations. Scare tactics where used constantly in the days leading up to, the day of, and the days following the election.

    I live in Florida

    Ohio was much worse in fact. It's a documented fact. All it takes is a little research into what you DON'T want to believe. It's easy to study and understand what you want to be true, it's much harder to look at the other side objectively and then come to your conclusions.

    http://www.oldamericancentury.org/ConyersOhioHearing_chunk.wmv

    The Conyers hearing, in which Clinton Curtis testifies that he was hired by a republican congressman to create hackable voting machines that would swing an election 51-49 in whichever direction was desired.

    Election fraud is a massive problem. It's well documented, just not in the Weekley Standard or on Fox News.

    There is no checks and balances when the executive signs a law and then adds a signing statement that it does not have to abide by said law. You do not live in a republic when the Supreme Court "appoints" a President. When the Rule of Law is secondary to anything you do not live in a republic.

    I have lost my civil liberties, because if 1 american loses them, we all have lost them.

    ...and limit the power of those around them

    Most Americans want a better Government.
     
  12. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    With the exception of strong defense. For me, that's the first and most important issue that I vote on.

    You raise some valid points.

    Such as...

    Like who?


    Which almost always means a smaller, less interventionist gov't.
     
  13. 1krazykapt

    1krazykapt New Member

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    Sorry Brian but do you remember that three newspapers did there own recount of the Fla. vote count and each time the bush win was bigger. Also I like the college if not for that only N.Y. Fla. and Calf. would matter in the election. Personaly I don't what the cranola state making the differance evry time
     
  14. TVoffBrainOn

    TVoffBrainOn Member

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    Most people outside of Florida have no concept of what really happened here in the 2000 election. I could post a ton of links with plenty of information on the subject, but i tend to find that people will take an issue more seriously if they research it themselves rather than be fed information by someone who they already disagree with.

    I like the electoral college, i can't think of a better way.
     
  15. InterestedParty

    InterestedParty New Member

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    I'm from Ohio and I know what happened in Ohio. In the 2000 election there was voter fraud that was initiated by the Democrat "get out the vote organizations" throughout Cuyahoga County in NorthEast Ohio. Themost populated part of Ohio. It was tried again in 2004 and stopped. I am curious what informaton you think you have on Ohio. The tape you supplied gives no definitive proof of anything in Florida or Ohio. Especially Ohio. It simply says what you want it to say. If you could please give me links that give the proof that you say exists where Ohio is concerned. I could spend the next six months trying to find what you are talking about and not find it.

    Links please.
     
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