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Good News Out of Iraq

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by USMC the Almighty, Apr 5, 2007.

  1. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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  2. Koios

    Koios New Member

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    I fixed the video (for some reason spaces after and before the code prevented it from showing up).

    In other news: Four UK soldiers killed in Iraq

    Hopefully things will get better and much sooner than anticipated because people shouldn't live in terror (on neither sider)
     
  3. Truth-Bringer

    Truth-Bringer New Member

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    Unfortunately though there is a lot of not so good news coming out of Iraq:

    War in Iraq Spurs Massive Migration



    "Nearly 2 million Iraqis -- about 8 percent of the prewar population -- have embarked on a desperate migration, mostly to Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, according to the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees."

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16967176

    Professionals Fleeing Iraq As Violence, Threats Persist

    Exodus of Educated Elite Puts Rebuilding at Risk


    By Doug Struck
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Monday, January 23, 2006; Page A01

    BAGHDAD -- The office of Iraq's most eminent cardiologist is padlocked. A handwritten sign is taped on his wooden door in the private clinic in Baghdad: Patients of Dr. Omar Kubasi should call him in Amman, Jordan.

    There, Kubasi, 63, spends his days sitting at a cafe with other physicians and professionals from Iraq. Frustrated, he watches from afar as the medical education system he helped set up during his 36-year career slowly disintegrates. His teaching doctors are fleeing the country in fear. Younger physicians are looking for other countries to train in. Even patients are leaving, no longer confident in the care they can get in Iraq.

    "I think it's part of the plan for the country's destruction," Kubasi said by telephone. "The situation in the last six months has gotten so bad, we couldn't continue."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/22/AR2006012201112.html


    Doctors Under Fire in Iraq


    by Aaron Glantz with Salam Talib

    Until two weeks ago, Ali Falah worked as an emergency room doctor in the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk. The city, which is ethnically mixed but dominated by two Kurdish militias, has been the scene of increased sectarian violence. Most doctors left the city earlier this year after one physician was gunned down inside the emergency room.

    Falah says lately he's often been the only doctor on the floor of an emergency room that receives 80 patients a day. Falah says he was ready to hang on and continue working, but two weeks ago someone dropped a note off at his home in a Shi'ite section of Kirkuk.

    "They threw a letter in the house saying the residents who are Shia have to leave the city," he says. "Otherwise, they said, 'What will happen, will happen.' So most of the people left. Me also."

    Falah says that was the last straw. He left for the southern province of Amara, where he's living near his fiancée's family. He's given up medicine, saying it's too dangerous, and is working for a company. He won't say which type.

    http://www.antiwar.com/glantz/?articleid=9719


    Doctors Fleeing Iraq


    Associated Press | November 22, 2006

    VIENNA, Austria - Iraq's top doctors are under threat and are fleeing the country, leaving hospitals in the hands of medical students or junior physicians, an Iraqi lawmaker said Wednesday.

    Doctors have been kidnapped and killed since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 that toppled ex-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, said Dr. Rajaa al-Khuzai, an obstetrician who is an elected member of the Iraqi National Council.

    "They have been targeted since the fall of the regime," she told The Associated Press during a visit to Austria. "Some of them have been kidnapped and found dead in the streets, some have been released after paying a ransom."

    She also told reporters earlier Wednesday that Iraqi hospitals face a shortage of medicines and are in dire need of new equipment.

    "We were promised, or we believed, that we would have many new hospitals being built, and many health centers ... but none of this has been done," she said. "No hospitals have been built so far; only some of the hospitals have been serviced."

    "So if you want to see a good ophthalmologist in Baghdad, you'll never find one. If you want a good gynecologist ... you'll never find one," she said. "The health services are very bad."

    http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,119420,00.html?ESRC=iraq.RSS
     
  4. Everylyric

    Everylyric New Member

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    At least Iraq is improving...
     
  5. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Very true. No one's saying that Iraqi is going swimmingly, but the least I expect from the intellectually honest is to acknowledge when things are improving.
     
  6. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle New Member

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    Four years later and things are still "improving." Yet in most of Iraq the situation hasn't changed much since major combat operations ceased

    I'm sure some people will tell you things are improving. But not a lot of people are up for another decade of improving. Especially when that includes the risk of being killed in a blast whenever they go to the market.
     
  7. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    Guerrila wars take an average of eleven years. This stuff takes time. Look at how long of Germany "improving" it took before we removed our troops. Over 50 years, we still had people in Germany.

    Look at the amount of time it took for the U.S. to blossom into a functioning democracy. We declared our independence in 1776 and it wasn't until 1801 that we really became a bona fide republic. It takes times (generations) to rebuild a country from scratch.

    It's sad really, when people become so partisan-driven that they actually don't want America to succeed.
     
  8. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle New Member

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    Do you think I like turning on the news and hearing about the hundred people killed in a market blast. Do you think I enjoy hearing about the soldiers and civilians killed everyday because of people like you? People who act before they take the time to stop and think. Do really think that I get a kick out of how much more dangerous the world is now after this mistake? I don't like the fact that people out there want to kill my family. I don't like that they are targeting my friends in the armed forces. I don't like the fact that if they had their way that my people in Israel would be eradicated. And I especially don't like the fact that every day and in every way you give them more and more followers with your ignorance, your bigotry, and your warped vision of patriotism.

    I am tired of people believing that people hate America just because they criticize the government. It's people like you who took the approach that just because I didn't want a war in the first place then I must hate our soldiers, right? Because I didn't want to send them to a foreign country to die I must hate them right? No. It is sad when people become so partisan-driven that they are actually willing to have tens of thousands of people die in an effort to try and prove that they were right in the first place. People like you disgust me.
    You believe in all the tenets of the regime that we toppelled in Iraq, you just don't know it. You support a single party system, you support torture, you support the government having the right to do what it feels like, you support militarism over education, and you have no care for human life. Now you tell me what seperates you from the Baathists...

    Fact checks: We were not in Germany as part of a rebuilding mission our troops remained there because of the fear of an imminent Soviet attack, not as part of nation-building. Secondly Germany was the first to create the war.

    Also contrary to what you guys think I don't believe in a withdrawl from Iraq. I think that would be an awful idea. But how about instead of doing nothing as "Fearless Leader" seems to be preoccupied with how about trying a real change, how about you stop lying about the reality, and how about you stop throwing away the lives of our service men and women.

    It bothers me greatly that our troops are still not being taught the language. It bothers me that four years later our government still won't pay for our soldiers body armor after granting repeated tax breaks to people who make over a million a year.
    And it bothers me greatly that rather than listening to reason our Command in Chief prefers to believe that stupidity is the better part of valor.
     
  9. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but don't let that get in the way of your lunatic ranting.

    And you speak of my "ignorance"? Haha, when were you last in Iraq?
     
  10. TheWaffle

    TheWaffle New Member

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    When were you last in Germany?

    Just because I've "been" to Denmark doesn't make me an expert on their politics and economy. And where exactly is it that I don't know what I'm talking about? See that's your problem is that rather then address and contend with others opinions and viewpoints you simply try to discount them by repeating your "I'm in the marines and so I'm right rhetoric."

    Secondly my entire argument is based on experience and logic, how exactly is it that my argument isn't based on anything but the truth.

    And yes you are ignorant. You draw connections where none exist, Iraq-Germany, Saddam-9/11. In the words of FDR "Repetition of a falsity does not make it true." And I hope you realize that it is your partisanship not mine that is causing America to fail in this war. It is by failing to listen to the ideas of others that got us into this mess, and as long as that continues people are going to keep on dying.
     
  11. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

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    Okay, Mr. Waffle. Calm down. Really. Calm the **** down and stop throwing accusations around. You don't know USMC the Almighty and making generalizations about him based on a singular political opinions is entirely uncalled for. You should be ashamed about escalating a simple discussion into a finger-pointing, name-calling argument; by doing so you're greatly devaluing your own argument. Remember, when you argue, you're trying to convince someone of something, and if all you're doing is pissing them off then you're not going to get anywhere.

    Secondly, to Mr. USMC the Almighty: Yes, progress and improvement are showing in Iraq. But is it enough and more importantly will it ever be enough? Democracy goes against religious and cultural beliefs that have been firmly entrenched in the Middle East, an extremely xenophobic region, for hundreds of years. Do you suppose that we'll ever make enough progress that enough people in Iraq will feel like fighting and dying for their democratic rights when we, outsiders, are the ones who brought those rights and by their heritage they don't trust us anyway? I'm not committing myself one way or the other on that argument right now because frankly, I don't know the Iraqi people.

    And then there is Mr. Waffle's argument about how long the Iraqis will want to keep this up as well. The American people have grown extremely weary of this war and we're all the way over here in North America. How must the Iraqis feel about this?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070410/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_shiite_discontent

    That's just one of several news articles making the rounds lately that express the discontent of the Iraqi people with how things are being run. Many of them want us gone and once the people of a nation declare that they want a foreign army to leave, remaining would turn that foreign army from one of domestic assistance into one of occupation. We'd be going back to Cold War politics if we stated our intent to protect democracy in Iraq and then ignored the will of the majority of its people.

    But yes...the situation has improved. It may have improved as much as it ever will. It may improve more if we stay or it may grow worse. One thing is for sure - if the Shiites turn against us fully than we'll have turned Iraq into Iran. And who wants that?
     
  12. TOGU

    TOGU New Member

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    I don't see America failing this war.

    We can only fail if we pull out. The Iraqi government itself strongly desires a continued US military presence.

    Despite the daily news of attacks, overall violence has been decreasing since the surge, and most of the country outside of Baghdad and Anbar is relatively peaceful, with less crime than many major American cities. Baghdad itself is not much worse than Johannesburg.

    I am not saying that Iraq is safe or secure, and we still have much work to do. Yet to constantly repeat the notion of 'failure' is highly counterproductive, unhelpful, and unfair.
     
  13. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    People like me? Typical blame-America first nonsense.

    What is this a referrence to?

    Wrong. The world is not yet any better off or worse off. You see, when we went into Afghanistan, all the terrorists fled to Iraq. When we went to Iraq all the terrorists are now fleeing to Syria. So we have secured about 2 out of probably 10 countries that are established safe-havens for terrorists. We won't be safe until every country's terrorists population is neutralized and they don't have anywhere left to flee to.

    I'm with you here.

    The only thing is, we have different philosophies on how to protect ourselves. I choose action, while you choose appeasement. Think "I hold in my hand this piece of paper..." the men of Munich, Clinton and Somalia...

    Appeasement only encourages.

    First, how am I ignorant or a bigot? I would love to see you back this up.

    Second, I disagree with your premise that I am giving them more followers.

    People like you disgust me. No backbone, no stomach for the fight. We can only thank God that people with your logic weren't around during WW2.

    You, sir, represent the capitulationist wing of the Democratic party.

    False. I'm against political parties period. Read Washington's 1796 Farewell Address for my arguments.

    False. I support coerced interrogation, as it is proven to work and doesn't create any long-term pain. Methods like sleep depravation, water boarding, barking dogs, etc.

    I certainly don't support cutting off fingers, shooting out knee caps, or any of those methods the Islamic Facists use.

    False. Do you really want me to create a list of the things I believe the gov't does not have the right to do?

    It'd be easier for me to tell you what I think the gov't should do.

    Provide a standing army, secure our borders, ensure national security, and infrastructure. Everything else like education should be left up to the states.

    Hahaha. WHAT? Please support this statement with some factual information.

    This is the biggest piece of bull**** you've said thus far. The military shows people the real value of human life. You, sir, are the ignorant one.

    Everything.

    Quite honestly, it's not our job to speak their language. It shouldn't be our job to rebuild the country. If I had my way, we'd hire private industries, corporations, etc. to rebuild Iraq and let the soldiers do their job -- go get the terrorists in Iran and Syria.

    First, the government designates more than enough money to the DOD. They decide what to do with the money, not the President.

    Second, the military is far better equipped now than it was under Clinton.

    Third, all tax cuts, by definition will benefit the rich more than the poor because the rich pay the most taxes. If you have someone who doesn't pay an taxes, then of course a tax cut won't benefit him. But if you have someone who pays 55% of their income, and you cut spending, then of course they are going to receive the best relief. And they should.

    Where do you get this crazy idea from?
     
  14. USMC the Almighty

    USMC the Almighty New Member

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    You're missing the point. My job is to secure Iraq, I think I know a little better than you do how stuff on the ground is progressing.

    Hahahahaha.

    If you refuse to apply history to modern-day situations, then what good is it? Why bother even teaching it. We should learn from how the Reconstruction of Germany proceeded. We'd prefer to have it turn out like it did post-WW2. If we pull out, then it will look like WW1 where a power vacuum will leave room for a fanatic like Hitler and the Nazis to seize power (look at Hezbollah in Lebanon -- eerily similar situation).

    And I don't think I ever drew a Saddam-9/11 connection. I drew a al-Qaeda-9/11 connection, and an al Qaeda/Iraq connection. Don't make stuff up.
     
  15. Koios

    Koios New Member

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    Remember to keep your cool guys....
     
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