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Pope's speech causes outrage

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by 9sublime, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

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    So whats the views on this then?

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hAbL28TVkVsC_ZP1Vdg7hlW8gPDw

    Seems to me that the Pope, in all his God given wisdom, has a totally irrational and groundless fear of homosexuality.

    Although the figure is contested, the general agreement is that the percentage of the population who are gay does not exceed 10% in any nation (and is most likely and more often significantly lower). I couldn't find any definite figures but a quick google search shows this is the general consensus.

    Either, the Pope doubts humanities ability to realise that hetereosexual sex = babies, or he's not quite as clever as he's made out to be.
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    What the pope says should only matter to practicing Roman Catholics. It is no one else's business what he says.
     
  3. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    The downside to that is the enormous power the Pope wields--rightfully or wrongfully-in the world today. He should at least study the issue before speaking about it. I read over and over again how the Catholic Church is no longer working against science, that they have embraced evolution, they own an observatory in Arizona, they fund schools of higher education, but then he comes out with this tripe that is based on religious bigotry. He must be an embarrassment to the biologists, sociologists, geneticists, and the like at the Catholic Universities.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    to believe in the scriptures does not make someone a bigot. and I would disagree that the pope has all that much power, a pope did in the dark ages but they do not today.

    you can believe in space and science and still think morals matter. I think the church is as hard on other topics as they are homosexuality. I have never heard they deny someone communion because they desire sex with same gender but they will deny a divorced person communion, and a person who killed their child in abortion.
     
  5. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    Believing in Scripture doesn't make one a bigot, it's what you do with those beliefs. If you believe and live your life according to your own lights, letting others live as they choose, then fine and dandy, but laws passed against the people YOU don't think are living by Scripture--well, that's another thing altogether.

    I've never actually known of a Catholic Church that would give communion to openly gay couples attending the service, is this common?

    Or is it that only gays who "desire sex with same gender" but do not actually engage therein? If so, then the Church's treatment of them is the same as divorced people or women who've had an abortion. If the Church doesn't know, then it will give communion to all of them.
     
  6. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    The pope is pouring petrol on the fire of homophobia and he should be ashamed of himself.
     
  7. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    But I'll bet with you that he's not.:)
     
  8. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    Of course not.

    He trained with the Hitler Youth so will be very good at dealing with homophobia.

    And all manner of bigoted views.

    The pope is just ludicrous.

    Like the church and religion he represents.

    Poncing round in expensive ladies clothes whilst most of his followers are on the bread line.

    It is time the whole institution was brought down and its money given back to the poor people it stole it from.

    There would be a massive sigh of relief from many choir boys.
     
  9. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    As always the whys and wherefores of the RC Church (indeed any church) is an interesting muse but suggesting that this is born out of sheer malice or latent programming from the Hitler youth bears little resemblence to reality. I assume you all know that this has been doctrine since God was an embryo and like all clubs they have their rules. This is a long standing rule with this little club, nutters they may be, however, they are allowed to have their rules!

    Personally I think they're all as mad as a box of frogs but since its their club its their rules so basically if you don't like it.......well........ tough sh1t really. Go find another club.
     
  10. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    If their club was benign you would be right.

    But it sounds like your argument amounts to 'the nazi party had its rules and that is fair enough'.

    Which sounds far from acceptable to me.

    And no the church is not benign. Far from it.
     
  11. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    Not quite true, for the first 14 centuries homosexuals were married and blessed by the church. The translation errors that ended up with prohibition on gays are much more recent.

    The other point is that as long as the Catholics want to believe the nonsense the Pope trowels out I fine with that, but when they start passing laws to force others into line with their barking mad philosophies, then it's harder to "go find another club." I am willing to let them be with their disgusting ritual cannibalism and their tortured savior, I will not vote to take from them any right I claim for my own, but they can't seem to do the same.
     
  12. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    Careful Mare, you might get burned
     
  13. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    Joan of Arc was burned at the stake for being a transsexual and refusing to wear women's clothing. Burning people at the stake has a long and distinguished history with the Church.
     
  14. Dawkinsrocks

    Dawkinsrocks Well-Known Member

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    They love it don't they.

    It is all in the spirit of loving thy neighbour and turning the other cheek.

    You know, all that inconveninet stuff in the bible that gets in the way of a good old bit of torture and oppression.
     
  15. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ............thinking about it you're probably right as the ancients were never that fussy about what and where they shoved various parts of their anatomy! Anyway what it was is irrelevent as the here and now is the issue.

    .... thus is life my friend! We all have our individual bug bares and life throws some pretty sh1tty curve balls every now and again but unfortunately them that shout loudest usually prevail. The theory being I suppose is that eventually those nutters in charge will be percieved for what they are, barking mad, and the more "liberal" will tell the mad barkers to bugger off and the less mad can form their own new little club(s).

    Cue the episcapalians (or whatever they call themselves) they're pretty well screwed as a going concern with schisms and breaks all over the place and (bless is cotton socks) the Arch Bish of Canterbury running hither and yon trying to keep his precious communion together (good luck on that one Bish!!)

    Anyway, as the inimitable Dawk says, so much for the spirit of the liberal God and inclusion and love thy neighbour all that malarchy! As I said they're all as mad as snakes and should be locked away in little rooms with whips and bibles.......
     
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