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Republican economics another day another bailout!

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by top gun, Sep 17, 2008.

  1. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Well now AIG America's largest insurance company just failed too and to try and prevent an outright DEPRESSION the government is once again bailing out another PRIVATE BUSINESS!

    So to any lug nuts that might still think our very own elderly & retired AMERICANS don't deserve to collect their messily little Social Security checks or be able to see a doctor on Medicare... you're shameful!

    Up to $12 BILLION DOLLARS per month for 6 years on a Bush War founded on lies and let's see how many MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR bailouts to private companies now...

    FANNIE MAY

    FREDDIE MAC

    BEAR STEARNS

    LEHMAN BROTHERS

    and the bailout of the day AIG!

    Great stewardship of our economy Republicans... great job!:eek:
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    ...........and you're alternative proposal would have been?............

    LIBOR + 8.5% sounds like a friggin good deal for the US taxpayer or have you some alternative plan?
     
  3. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Fanny and freddy would not have happened if Obama, Biden, Dodd and also some republicans would have voted yes on McCains plan in 2005. But Dodd got more money from them than any other person in congress in a 15 year period of time and Lord Obama got the second most. He was only there 3 freaking years and he got more in that 3 years to put him over every other person in congress except Dodd, like he was really going to go against that sugar daddy!

    John McCain in 2005 speaking to Congress about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
    GovTrack: Senate Record: FEDERAL HOUSING ENTERPRISE REGULATORY REFORM... (109-s20060525-16)

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/reco...9-s20060525-16


    Sen. John McCain R-AZ on the McCain - Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005

    Mr. President, this week Fannie Mae’s regulator reported that the company’s quarterly reports of profit growth over the past few years were “illusions deliberately and systematically created” by the company’s senior management, which resulted in a $10.6 billion accounting scandal.

    The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight’s report goes on to say that Fannie Mae employees deliberately and intentionally manipulated financial reports to hit earnings targets in order to trigger bonuses for senior executives. In the case of Franklin Raines, Fannie Mae’s former chief executive officer, OFHEO’s report shows that over half of Mr. Raines’ compensation for the 6 years through 2003 was directly tied to meeting earnings targets. The report of financial misconduct at Fannie Mae echoes the deeply troubling $5 billion profit restatement at Freddie Mac.

    The OFHEO report also states that Fannie Mae used its political power to lobby Congress in an effort to interfere with the regulator’s examination of the company’s accounting problems. This report comes some weeks after Freddie Mac paid a record $3.8 million fine in a settlement with the Federal Election Commission and restated lobbying disclosure reports from 2004 to 2005. These are entities that have demonstrated over and over again that they are deeply in need of reform.

    For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs—and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO’s report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO’s report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

    I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
    I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.
     
  4. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, Bear sterns was loaned money, as was AIG, they were not "bailed out" persay. And Lehman got no help at all.

    If AIG can pay the loan back (which I think it actually will years down the road) the tax payer is making 8.5% a year on that loan. Not a bad return.
     
  5. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    Well you make that sound better.


    what do you think of what McCain said in 2005 about freddie and fanny
     
  6. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Honestly... not really. The crisis is so bad that all the top advisor's were saying we had to do some bailout or the devastation would likely spread all through industry.

    The issue is that the Republicans in their zeal to deregulate have cost us dearly. It was John McCain's own top economic advisor Phil Graham's Bill that put the death nail in the Glass Segal protections against these tragedies.
     
  7. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Well just to even more clear just tonight on nightly news they said with all the bailouts SO FAR the American taxpayer is on the hook for over THREE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS... it was either 314 or 340 I don't remember.

    Sure some of this is assets and some will be paid back. But the point is, is it not, that if these were such wonderful investments they A) Wouldn't need government "loans" or bailouts and B) Other private sector companies would be buying them themselves.

    NOW THE NEWS FLASH FOR TOMORROW:

    WASHINGTON MUTUAL SHAKY LOOKING TO SELL QUICK COULD BE NEXT TO GO SOON!


    Stock Market down 500 yesterday and over 400 down today and more failures predicted. Not a good thing... but at least John McCain keeps saying everything is fundamentally sound so that's at least one happy camper.

    I guess the rest of us are screwed but whatever. I really don't care how many houses he owns as long as he gets beat and goes back to one.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGU9q_hDXIQ
     
  8. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    Scots, don't confuse tg with facts, it only makes him mad, and then he'll go off on some totally unrelated skreed, blaming every Republican President since Lincoln for any and every problem that the country has ever had, and he may even call you a "neo-con". To us he's a "Tory", but maybe y'all could use him over there in the SDP?
     
  9. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure this is real news. Washington Mutual has been on the brink of collapse for months now. They specialize in junk loans as it is, I am surprised they have made it this far to begin with to be honest.

    But yes, the taxpayer is on the hook for around 300 billion. Not yet though. The US committed 200 billion to Fannie and Freddie, but they have not needed it all, 85 billion loaned to AIG, a loan of 29 I believe to Bear Sterns.

    Keep in mind however that in many cases the government simply bought the "junk" bonds. These may not be worth 300 billion, but they are certainly not worth nothing either. So, that said, even should every bank collapse now, the taxpayer would not lose 300 billion. I think it is misleading to paint that as the picture.

    The stock market was down 500 on Monday, up 160 I believe on Tuesday, and then AIG dropped it another 400 today. Investor confidence is low no doubt, but there is a lot of panic selling going on. There are financial companies with sound balance sheets and no exposure to junk bonds who are getting panic sold right now. If you time your moves right, you can make a fortune in this market.

    I think you are correct to identify part of the problem as no private company would extend a lifeline and that rocked investor confidence. I am not sure that a private company not extending a lifeline should be a sign of total market collapse. There is a reason the FED bailed out AIG and not Lehmen, AIG could turn out to be a good deal. In fact, many other branches of AIG continue to turn profits today.
    You can always short things, or buy calls and puts. There is money to be made in the market. The naked shorting rule is going to start being enforced now, as the general consensus is that has played a large role in driving the market down as well.
     
  10. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    There's nothing "unrelated" about it. There have been reports from people inside the actual government meeting that they had to do this latest government bailout to try and stop a major domino effect all throughout major industry.

    John McCain's TOP economic advisor put forward the Bill that killed the Glass Segal protections in place from way back after the depression.

    When you're in charge you get the praise when things are good... and the blame when things go bad.

    The REPUBLICANT'S have just simply been bad stewards of our economy and very untruthful in regard to War issues.

    And if anyone needs proof simply look at the McCain campaign... they're running AGAINST THEMSELVES as REPUBLICANT'S as much as they're running against Senator Obama.

    Yeah they're MAVERICKS alright... Ford Mavericks!

    They're cheap!

    Slow!

    And have almost no resale value!:)
     
  11. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer New Member

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    Precisely what I meant. Sure as the day is long, he went off on some unrelated skreed, and started trying to blame a Republican for a law that Dim-O-Craps were heavily involved with, and that was signed by a Dim-O-Crap President, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that it was a LOAN.
     
  12. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    You really ought to get out of the posting game and become a slight of hand magician... Look over there, no it's in my other hand, now it's behind my back, nope it's under my hat!:D

    sidebar: The news is when another financial institution fails. Washington Mutual is the NEXT to probably go. Maybe we just shouldn't talk about it and nobody will notice...

    But at least you're still not saying Lehman wasn't going down like you did for days on end... that's some progress. And before you say it... when you're a PRIVATELY HELD COMPANY and the government has to lend you BILLIONS of DOLLARS to keep you from guaranteed demise... THAT'S A BAILOUT! The government doesn't have to take a company completely over for it to be a bailout. See it was under your hat all along!:)

    And if you didn't like my 3OO BILLION DOLLAR number your gonna hate this. The morning news that I'm just now listening to just said 600 BILLION DOLLARS.

    But I'd keep spinning failures and bailouts as GOOD things if I were you... I'm sure you'll get loads of traction with that economic interpretation.
     
  13. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    :p

    Well it certainly is news if it collapses, but it has been predicted for awhile now that it would.

    I am not sure I ever said Lehmen was not going to go. I said that the bailout had not gone through when it was posted...

    I did not dislike the 300 billion number, the numbers I put up agreed with it, but when the government owns $300,000,000,000 in "junk" bonds and loans it is not like the value of those is $0. Therefore, even if we never saw a cent back from these bailouts, the taxpayer is not out of $300,000,000,000. I have not seen the $600,000,000,000 number, where does the additional $300 billion come in?

    I am not saying these are good events, but there is a silver lining. Further, as said before, even if we do not see a penny back, the taxpayer does not lose the full $300,000,000,000. Also, given the effect a total AIG collapse would have had on world markets, I do not think the FED really had a choice in that bailout.
     
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