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So much for focusing on the Economy...

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by GenSeneca, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Despite assertions from the Progressive bots that such things wouldn't happen till after the problems in the economy were solved, the Progressive leaders (read that fascists) are wasting no time assaulting our second amendment rights in an effort to disarm the public.

    Introduced January 6th 2009:

    H.R. 45, Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009;
    Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license.


    Obama: "law abiding gun owners have nothing to fear"

    The second amendment isn't for hunting, its not for sport, its there as the last resort to protect all our other rights from those who would violate those rights, that includes an oppressive government.

    If you own a gun, you will be required to get a license and register with your states attorney general or find yourself labeled a criminal and subject to severe punitive action. Should the A.G. turn down your application... You'll have to surrender your firearms.

    This is the same kind of backdoor garbage government used with the "drug stamp act" where you could only possess, acquire or sell drugs if you apply for a drug stamp... a stamp they don't have to issue and have never issued. There is no language in H.R. 45 that requires the states A.G.'s to issue licenses, only that citizens are required to have one or be criminals for possessing a firearm. If passed, this would be a sinisterly clever law that works around the recent SCOTUS decision.

    For those who think this is "common sense" legislation and support such efforts, imagine you had to have a license and be registered with the state to exercise your right to free speech, or practice a religion, or any of your other rights, and a failure to obtain such a license would make you a criminal for exercising those rights. Remember, there is no guarantee that you would be issued such a license, no matter how model a citizen you happen to be.

    Its not freedom when you need permission from the government to exercise rights guaranteed to you by the constitution. When you need permission, they cease to be rights and become privileges (like driving), your rights are no longer guaranteed and the constitution becomes, as Bush so eloquently put it; "just a G-d damn piece of paper."

    All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing....

    Write, call, outright harass your Congressmen and Senators about this assault on our liberty.
     
  2. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that is why firearm sales went up.

    From sea to shining sea, the election of Barack Obama has sparked a run on guns. Obama has vowed to protect gun ownership rights, but as an Illinois state lawmaker, he supported a ban on all forms of semiautomatic weapons and tighter restrictions on firearms. Gun peddlers in Georgia have staged "Obama Sales." the demand is so big that Alaska gun dealers are running out of ammunition. Even in Obama's home state of Illinois, business has been brisk at rural gun shops. In Pennsylvania, they aren't just clinging to their guns, as Obama said during the campaign, they're stockpiling them. "We've easily doubled our normal sales of guns," said Jere Dunkelberger, who owns Dunkelberger's Sports Outfitter in Stroudsburg, Pa. "The biggest sellers are security-style shotguns and handguns. Mostly a combination of self-protection and home protection firearms." "The increase in firearms sales was predictable," said Lawrence Keane of the National Shooting Sports Foundation. "It's clear from President-elect Obama's voting record, and the promises he continues to make, that gun control will be coming back to the White House."
     
  3. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    The odd thing is that the left is the group saying we are losing our consitutional freedoms on a daily basis but they are the same ones who want to restrict gun ownership and grow the size of government.

    If you on the left really believe half the things you say about GW Bush then you have to believe that at any time one of our presidents might just go all the way and turn this into a police state. The first step of course is to license and restrict guns.
     
  4. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    I guess the Progressives haven't put out talking points for this issue yet... that's why we don't hear anything about the issue from the Progressive Propaganda Parrots. Likely due to the fact that they want this to be done as quietly as possible and under the cover of a much bigger problem, the economy.

    Mr. Cheif of Staff said he didn't want any crisis to go to waste, that they could use any crisis to get things done that normally wouldn't fly... sure enough they are trying.
     
  5. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    BZZZZZT!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry, contestant. You're sophomoric-attempt at rhetoric was DOA. :rolleyes:

    fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

    Sounds awfully NeoCon, to me!!
     
  6. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    How comical!!

    Every Presidential-election, gun-dealers roll-out their THE DEMS WANNA TAKE OUR GUNS sales-pitch....and, the knuckle-dragging lemmings' Pavlovian-response is instantaneous!!!

    :D

    Whatta bunch o' SUCKERS!!!!
     
  7. Mr.Dysfunctional

    Mr.Dysfunctional New Member

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    So are you saying you support gun restriction legislation and the latter police state mentality?

    or do we get another paragraph of useless retorts , while large in vocabulary , mean absolutely nothing.

    Really Shaman.. do you own a gun? do you support second amendment rights?

    I bet you will avoid the question and instead attack any number of sentences I have put forth, Immeditally labeling me as a hard-core repub (( even thou i am a independent )) Do you even care Shaman ? or do all your posts have no content to them at all?

    I might speak for everyone when I say that its really a shame that all your prowless and energy is directed into useless articles and bashing of situations that we have no control over anymore. That or the subject is just not important when peered upon threw eye's of the "BIG PICTURE"

    Come on Shaman... tell us .. do you support second amendment rights? The freedom to carry concealed handguns... Or do you want to see legislation put in place that would remove these god given rights and put into the hands of proven irresponsible men (( and women )))?

    I will mail you a check with 10 dollars if you can even answer this one question... or hell even attempt it instead of hiding your opinions behind the curtain of biased blogs and newsletters.
     
  8. Mr.Dysfunctional

    Mr.Dysfunctional New Member

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    BTW can you show any news clip that shows a ramp up of gun sells when a democrat elected president is about to take office? I bet you can't ... why .. because it has never been an agenda of democrats to try and ban the sell of guns or limit a consumers ability to obtain one. Except namely for one. FDR.. who banned the use of Fully automatic weapons in civilian hands.
     
  9. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    What I'm saying, is....all o' the talk about Dems tryin' to take everyone's guns (from them) is simply more Bush-style fear-BS....and, no one knows that better than gun-dealers.
     
  10. Mr. Shaman

    Mr. Shaman New Member

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    A Dem doesn't have to take-office.

    I guess you're too-young to remember this same gun-sales scam being run, when Al Gore was the Dems' Candidate.

    :rolleyes:
     
  11. Bunz

    Bunz New Member

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    Well Alaska has seen its shortages of various types of black guns to say the least. There is very much a sellers market when it comes to used AR-15 types. Because all of the manufacturers are on massive back orders.

    As for the bill, I dont think it has much legs at this point. Obama is not dumb enough to seriously attempt this sort of move this early in the term. It will ensure him only having 4 years at 1600.
     
  12. Dr.Who

    Dr.Who Well-Known Member

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    I am wondering of you wanted to say Republican instead of Democrat?

    Assuming that it does not matter if the news clip is a video or written format one was presented here showing that right now with the election of PE Obama there is right now a run on guns. But given the wonder of search engines I bet a video could be found discussing that issue.
     
  13. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Shaman doesn't know the difference between the German style of National Socialism (which matches what he posted) and the Italian style of Fascism (which is what FDR modeled his "New Deal" after). The Italians didn't have rampant antisemitism, racism, sexism or even militaristic dreams of global domination... they saw fascism for what it was billed as being, a "Third Way" that was said to be the perfect balance of Capitalism and Communism. By the way... the "Third Way" still exists, they just don't call themselves fascists anymore... now they call themselves "Progressives".

    I posted HR 45, legislation that was actually introduced in the House this year, Jan 6, 2009.

    The legislation does 3 things:
    1. Brings back the "assault" weapons BAN
    2. BANS magazines with more than 5 shots (Clinton "only" banned magazines with more than 10 shots)
    3. Reduces our second amendment right to a privilege that's subject to the whims of bureaucrats in Washington.

    Despite these realities... Shaman is claiming that this legislation wasn't proposed, it doesn't do what the legislation itself outlines, and that its all a ruse by gun shops to sell guns.... I seem to remember someone else who was just as good at claiming such nonsense in the face of reality:


    Baghdad Bob: The Americans are nowhere near Baghdad!!! (as American tanks roll past him in the background)

    On a side note: My favorite gun manufacturer, Calico (what a great name!), was put out of business after the original "assault" weapons ban. They've since rebuilt their business and now face, once again, being put out of business.

    I don't hear anyone on the Left wringing their hands over the of jobs that will be LOST if this legislation goes through... Perhaps if they were Union jobs the Left would give a crap about putting these people out of work.

    First... you voted for the guy... would you really not vote for him the next time around for signing this into law? I don't think the people who voted for him give a crap about whether he makes this law and apparently, there are those who think more of him for it.

    Now as for your thinking that such legislation doesn't stand a chance... think about it, now is a brilliant time to push it through... We have an economic "crisis" thats got the public and the media's attention squarely focused elsewhere. Put that with Rom Emanuel's statements about how during a crisis, "we can put through legislation that would not otherwise get passed." He knows that unpopular legislation like this stands its best chance of getting passed, without becoming a firestorm, while the public and media are all watching and talking about the legislative proposals related to the economy. It would be political suicide to bring this up during a slow news cycle, or after the crisis passed, where it would be front page news and on the lips of all the newscasters and talk radio jockeys.

    Lastly, I don't think Obama wants to wait 4 years to see this get done.... His record is one of being firmly anti-gun. I think he, and those in Congress, are betting on using the economic crisis as a smokescreen to pass just this kind of unpopular legislation - quietly.
     
  14. Mr.Dysfunctional

    Mr.Dysfunctional New Member

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    More of what I meant was any new articles about increases in sales on guns during .. ANY elections.. however I pointed to Democrat P.E's because ... well ... Obama :)) but I did a bit of checking ...

    What I instead read was http://www.infoplease.com/spot/guntime1.html
    which is a site with a timeline of gun control.. pointing out that only Democrats have instituted any regulations over our 2nd amendment rights.

    Not to say they were even bad actually.. While I oppose Clinton's ban on on Semi Auto Assault rifles, I completely agree with 7 day waiting periods on gun sales. Even FDR's ban on Automatic weapons seems like a sensible and bi-partisan line that could be agreed on.

    ... Btw .. Shammy.. you still have yet to answer the basic question i put forth..

    Do you or do you not support the 2nd amendment? If yes/no ..Does requiring gun owners to have a liscence and registraion on all fire-arms seem sensible.

    While you may believe I'm so how trying to bait or trap you,... I am actually just terribly intrigued.. Hell.. I would even leave the site just to here you answer a question with logic ,out of your brain and based on your core biases ,then internet driven propaganda you pretend to intrigue us all with.
     
  15. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    As was noted, this bill has very short legs and will be easily defeated. Has anyone considered that Obama may very well have stimulated one part of the economy very effectively without ANY government money? Look at gun sales! They're through the roof, and ammunition too. So the recovery has begun, starting with gun sales.

    If we can continue the rhetoric of fear I think we can also stimulate the survivalist markets in tools, storage of foodstocks and personal supplies, this will stimulate manufacturing and shipping, produce jobs and before you know it we will have climbed out of the recession.
     
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