as predicted, house dems duped

Re: Their fear is

samsara15 said:
that the Health Reform will be a success and ensure Democratic control of the nation for years to come. It won't happen, but once passed, they will find its popularity makes it very hard to get rid of.

If they could, Conservatives would get rid of Social Security and Medicare, and are trying as hard as they can to bankrupt both programs.
Click to expand...



how exactly are conservatives bankrupting SS and Medicare ?
 
Werbung:
AtheismIsReality said:
Why shouldn't they make 1.5% profit?
Click to expand...

*chuckles* soo... your solution to all of our health care woes, is to cut the insurance companies profits from 2.2% to 1.5%?? How much do you imagine this will cut the premiums that people pay, and more importantly, what makes you think you have the right to tell other people how much they can charge for services that they provide? Are you the owner of their labor? Have you hired them to manage your own money for you? Or is it their money that you expect them to provide to you at a loss to themselves? You're fundamental lack of understanding of the principles (as laid out in our constitution) upon which this nation was founded is simply staggering.

How is it that we are to defeat you with logic when you don't even recognize the basic right to own private property that individual citizens of America have. If you can't honor the rules that our constitution lays out to protect the individual against the tyranny of the majority through the unconstitutional use of power by the federal government, then how can you expect people like me to negotiate and deal with people like you? You think you are winning, and yes, in the short term you are. What you fail to understand however is that in the long run people like you are going to cause a 2nd civil war. You don't recognize the authority of our constitution, and that it protects people like me from people like you. You think you can do whatever you like so long as there are more of you than there are of me. I hope that America does not have to suffer as you discover that you are wrong, but I worry that people like you do not have the respect for our founding documents necessary to prevent that lesson from coming. The endless quest of people like you for ultimate control (for their own good of course) of the people of America will someday lead to bloodshed that nobody wants to see.
 
Devil505 said:
Wonder how much Al Capone made???
Click to expand...

Participation in Al Capone's business enterprise was typically involuntary. If you do not like the way the insurance companies do business, you participation is entirely voluntary. Think about that a long time before responding, because I doubt very much that you have a firm grasp upon the difference.

If you think the insurance companies are so evil, then why not start your own health insurance company, and show them all how its done? You could cover everything, and just let people pay whatever they can afford. You could make the call to never reject anybody for preexisting conditions, so that your potential customers can just choose not to pay for your service until they require it. In this way you could bring in no revenue, but still get to pay for their huge medical bills. Yes, clearly you've got some brilliant ideas, the only thing left to do is put them into practice buddy. You can bet that I'd be willing to take advantage of your genius market cornering strategy. Not as an investor of course, lol oh no no no, not as an investor, that would be fantastically foolish, but rather as a customer!! Imagine how much business you would get by charging so little and paying out so much. Your company would be so popular.... for the five seconds that it was in operation, but oh what a five seconds it would be!
 
rofl, I just heard Geraldo Rivera say that the health care bill is obviously constitutional because it alters 20% of the US economy, and it therefore falls under the commerce clause.

..............


REALLY?????????????

REALLY????????????????????

So Geraldo, are you suggesting that any legislation that is expensive becomes inherently constitutional? Un****ingbelievable. These morons are simply unbelievable. Hey, I've got an idea, how about we create a new bureaucracy with 100,000,000 positions on the board of directors who must each be paid 1,000,000 annually, and whose job it will be to decide each day if Geraldo should be kicked in his idiot nuts 5 times with steel toe boots, or 10 times with sneakers. Obviously due to the sheer mind boggling price tag such a beauracracy would require each year to continue operations, it must be inherently constitutional.
 
Capitalist Pig said:
*chuckles* soo... your solution to all of our health care woes, is to cut the insurance companies profits from 2.2% to 1.5%?? How much do you imagine this will cut the premiums that people pay, and more importantly, what makes you think you have the right to tell other people how much they can charge for services that they provide? Are you the owner of their labor? Have you hired them to manage your own money for you? Or is it their money that you expect them to provide to you at a loss to themselves? You're fundamental lack of understanding of the principles (as laid out in our constitution) upon which this nation was founded is simply staggering.

How is it that we are to defeat you with logic when you don't even recognize the basic right to own private property that individual citizens of America have. If you can't honor the rules that our constitution lays out to protect the individual against the tyranny of the majority through the unconstitutional use of power by the federal government, then how can you expect people like me to negotiate and deal with people like you? You think you are winning, and yes, in the short term you are. What you fail to understand however is that in the long run people like you are going to cause a 2nd civil war. You don't recognize the authority of our constitution, and that it protects people like me from people like you. You think you can do whatever you like so long as there are more of you than there are of me. I hope that America does not have to suffer as you discover that you are wrong, but I worry that people like you do not have the respect for our founding documents necessary to prevent that lesson from coming. The endless quest of people like you for ultimate control (for their own good of course) of the people of America will someday lead to bloodshed that nobody wants to see.
Click to expand...

That was a whole lot of nothing in response to my point that the 2.2% profit margin was a fact without contest.

However, I will say that the right to own private property is meaningless without civic virtue. Placing property ownership over everything else is just as soulless as any collectivist regime can be.

We have an increasing wealth disparity in this nation that has never allowed for existence of a republic. If you want a case study in it, read up on Rome. Although, I keep forgetting America is "exceptional" so the lessons of history don't apply to us.

It's laughable that you worry about the characterization you make of me - basically a welfare case. Welfare is a pittance compared to the wealth that is being amassed elsewhere.

My only hope is that if the plutocracy does come to fruition before I die, that I get see the look on yours and the other naive "conservatives'" faces when the plutocrats gut you. The shocked look because your loyal servitude was not repaid in the way you think you deserve will be priceless.

Keep squawking, lackey.
 
AtheismIsReality said:
That was a whole lot of nothing in response to my point that the 2.2% profit margin was a fact without contest.

However, I will say that the right to own private property is meaningless without civic virtue. Placing property ownership over everything else is just as soulless as any collectivist regime can be.

We have an increasing wealth disparity in this nation that has never allowed for existence of a republic. If you want a case study in it, read up on Rome. Although, I keep forgetting America is "exceptional" so the lessons of history don't apply to us.

It's laughable that you worry about the characterization you make of me - basically a welfare case. Welfare is a pittance compared to the wealth that is being amassed elsewhere.

My only hope is that if the plutocracy does come to fruition before I die, that I get see the look on yours and the other naive "conservatives'" faces when the plutocrats gut you. The shocked look because your loyal servitude was not repaid in the way you think you deserve will be priceless.

Keep squawking, lackey.
Click to expand...

The reason for the wealth disparity, in large part, is the welfare system. There never was any intent on the part of progressive/socialists to end the gap between the wealthy, and the poor. That was just a "red herring". Have you ever taken the time to notice that as the poor get poorer the rich get richer? The reason for that is the destruction of the middle class by higher taxation. As government programs increase the need for more revenue increases. The middle class cannot find ways to shelter their money, while the wealthy can. Then there is the factor that it is the wealthy that own the very enterprises the poor spend their welfare checks on.

Look at what is occuring now with the stock market. As the "stimulus" money is doled out the stock market goes up, brokers make record profits, more millionaires, and billionaires, are created, and the poor get poorer while the middle class struggles to keep their homes.

Then there is the fiat money created by the government.

As to healthcare, the bill just passed does nothing to lower the increasing costs of pharmacueticals, and hospital care. It only attacks the private insurer, and will certainly drive the country into deeper debt. You might want to read this article on the prifits of insurance companies which rank about in the middle, or the lower half, of the Fortune 500.

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.aspx?feed=AP&date=20100221&id=11135924

Whether their profit margin should be 3 percent or 10 percent "is a much grayer area," Oppenheimer analyst Carl McDonald said.

By one measure, managed care companies make modest profits. Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin in 2008, placing them 35th of 53 industries on the Fortune 500 list. Drug and medical product companies both made the top 5.

"They're very much middle of the pack, but they've sort of been demonized in this health care reform debate," said Christopher Conover, a research scholar in Duke University's Center for Health Policy who has studied profit margins.

WellPoint's profits look outsized, in part, because it is a huge company. It had $65 billion in total revenue in 2009 and was the 32nd largest company on the 2009 Fortune 500 list, which is based on 2008 figures.

Some states have approval power over health insurance rates. But many, as is the case with California, do not. California and other states do, however, set a minimum percentage of premiums that must be spent on medical claims. California regulators require insurers pay at least 70 percent of the premiums they collect on individual insurance toward claims. WellPoint says it tops that percentage.

While insurers do aim to make money, analysts and actuaries say rising medical costs are the main driver of rate hikes. Many insurers are in competitive markets, and they have to be careful not to overprice, said health care consultant Dan Mendelson, president of Avalere Health.

"You wouldn't see a 35 percent increase in price because they're trying to make more profit," he said. "It just doesn't work that way."

Copyright 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
 
OldTrapper said:
The reason for the wealth disparity, in large part, is the welfare system.
Click to expand...

You wasted your time with that polemic.

After The Great Depression the inequity gap was closing, then it reversed when taxes started dropping and people could start massing wealth more easily.

Yeah, "welfare queens" are the ones who sit on the boards of corporations that make the business decisions that have brought this country to its knees. They just have so much wealth to make that happen.

Welfare payments are just a means to keep from having to pay for a security force from cracking our heads, at long as it is cost efficient. Just imagine how much liberty and opportunity Americans are going to have when the balance shifts...
 
AtheismIsReality said:
Why shouldn't they make 1.5% profit?
Click to expand...

What insurance companies do is the same thing the monopolies of old often used to do. They like to pull the wool over people's eys saying... Well we only make X amount... a lot of other companies make more than X amount.

The difference is that the monopoly through it's collusion has a particular imperative market virtually locked up and most everyone needs that service.

Once a company gets so big the profit margin loses a lot of it's significance..

I mean let's get serious for a second. 1.5%, 2%, 3% of like a gazillion dollars a year are all a super duper mega huge pay day.;)

 
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Capitalist Pig said:
Participation in Al Capone's business enterprise was typically involuntary.
Click to expand...
No it wasn't. Anyone who bought booze was voluntarily participating in Al's business.



Capitalist Pig said:
If you think the insurance companies are so evil, then why not start your own health insurance company, and show them all how its done?
Click to expand...
Will do....As soon as the single payer public option is available. (& so will you)....It'll truly be OUR health insurance non-profit company.
 

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