Carter blasts Bush, Blair over Iraq war

[top gun]

Carter is an idiot. He thinks the Presidents job is to win an international popularity contest. MARK

I hate to hear you say that. President Carter is at the very least a very good human being. Even a very religious leader and winner of a Nobel Peace Prize.

You might want to consider that your bashing of President Carter is the EXACT same thing you complain about when it comes to Mr. Bush.

 

[9sublime]

Well, as many Americans that have died defending Britain and defeating their enemies, I would have to say F*#K OFF ya limey Brit. MARK

Well, I'll ignore the racism Mark, I don't have to sink to such levels on a debate, but I'll respond to this totally out of the blue and bizzare comment.

As for defending us, against what enemy? You tell me who you are defending us against? If it wasn't for us choosing to get involved in this war, we would never have been attacked by terrorists in the first place. You really believe without your help we would have fallen to 'terrorism' whatever that is?
You don't die defending us, your soldiers die as pawns trying to defend your governments reputation and some high ranking politicians jobs. I feel so sorry for the soldiers and their families, don't get me wrong, but we at home don't owe them anything. I didn't ask for America to defend my freedoms, and I certainly don't think people should be dying 'liberating' the middle east.

 

[ArmChair General]

Well, I'll ignore the racism Mark, I don't have to sink to such levels on a debate, but I'll respond to this totally out of the blue and bizzare comment.

As for defending us, against what enemy? You tell me who you are defending us against? If it wasn't for us choosing to get involved in this war, we would never have been attacked by terrorists in the first place. You really believe without your help we would have fallen to 'terrorism' whatever that is?
You don't die defending us, your soldiers die as pawns trying to defend your governments reputation and some high ranking politicians jobs. I feel so sorry for the soldiers and their families, don't get me wrong, but we at home don't owe them anything. I didn't ask for America to defend my freedoms, and I certainly don't think people should be dying 'liberating' the middle east.

If there was some sort of alternative reality and the UK asked for US military support, there really is no reason to believe that the US would not lend its help.

 

[top gun]

Well, I'll ignore the racism Mark, I don't have to sink to such levels on a debate, but I'll respond to this totally out of the blue and bizzare comment.

As for defending us, against what enemy? You tell me who you are defending us against? If it wasn't for us choosing to get involved in this war, we would never have been attacked by terrorists in the first place. You really believe without your help we would have fallen to 'terrorism' whatever that is?
You don't die defending us, your soldiers die as pawns trying to defend your governments reputation and some high ranking politicians jobs. I feel so sorry for the soldiers and their families, don't get me wrong, but we at home don't owe them anything. I didn't ask for America to defend my freedoms, and I certainly don't think people should be dying 'liberating' the middle east.

Don't take it personal my friend. There are those who would rather set the whole world on fire rather than admit that George W. Bush has made so many mistakes that the count has been lost.

And thank you for respecting our brave troops. They do their job in the most professional way and they follow their orders. No one can fault them for that. They've done the right things. It's those at the top who have let them down.

I truly believe the Republicans will continue to lose power and the Democrats will get a chance to change the course of things for the better.

 

[jb_1430]

I hate to hear you say that. President Carter is at the very least a very good human being. Even a very religious leader and winner of a Nobel Peace Prize.
You might want to consider that your bashing of President Carter is the EXACT same thing you complain about when it comes to Mr. Bush.

Yeah, him and Yasser Arafat, Im not impressed.
And I dont complain as you allege. MARK

 

[jb_1430]

Well, I'll ignore the racism Mark, I don't have to sink to such levels on a debate, but I'll respond to this totally out of the blue and bizzare comment.

As for defending us, against what enemy? You tell me who you are defending us against?

British isnt a race. And you must be young. A couple little dust ups called WWI and WWII. My family tree barely survived. Mark

 

[Dave]

Personally, I'd have to agree when the White House called Jimmy Carter irrelevant. It seems that way too many people are forgetting how Carter screwed up in Iran. Isn't this pretty much the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[9sublime]

British isnt a race. And you must be young. A couple little dust ups called WWI and WWII. My family tree barely survived. Mark

That was then, and I have great respect for your family, I'm sorry that they had to die defending the worlds freedom from Hitler.
I am no expert on WWII, but from the outside it seems your government came in late, because it had clear benefits to itself which it did not have before it declared war. I thank them for their involvement, but if the roles had been switched, and we had been attacked by terrorists first, then I think America would have come in late again.

As for you telling me to **** off and something about being a Brit, I'm not Welsh, I'm not Irish, only a wee bit Scottish, and they still piss me off. It really didn't offend me. If your going to have to resort to a slagging match rather than a debate, at least get the insults right.

 

[vyo476]

Personally, I'd have to agree when the White House called Jimmy Carter irrelevant. It seems that way too many people are forgetting how Carter screwed up in Iran. Isn't this pretty much the pot calling the kettle black?

Jimmy's problem in Iran was that he wasn't aggressive enough (and the one time he tried to be it failed more miserably than any other operation in the history of our nation and that is saying a lot).

I suppose you could make an argument that that is GW's problem with Iraq (Armchair's made that point already and, unsettling as it is, you can't dispute that his brutal ideas would probably work a lot better than what we're doing now) but I'd tend to think that Jimmy doesn't follow the same lines of reasoning as a "war nerds" like Armchair.

 

[top gun]

jb_1430;9102]Yeah, him and Yasser Arafat, Im not impressed.

At the time Yasser Arafat was part of the peace process. Carter & Clinton both had Israel and the Palestinians talking and at a truce for a time. The international community puts a high value on peace initiatives. As they should.

And I dont complain as you allege.

MARK

Really... I'm sorry I must be misreading things like this...

Originally Posted by jb_1430
Carter is an idiot. He thinks the Presidents job is to win an international popularity contest. MARK

 

[top gun]

Jimmy's problem in Iran was that he wasn't aggressive enough (and the one time he tried to be it failed more miserably than any other operation in the history of our nation and that is saying a lot).

I suppose you could make an argument that that is GW's problem with Iraq (Armchair's made that point already and, unsettling as it is, you can't dispute that his brutal ideas would probably work a lot better than what we're doing now) but I'd tend to think that Jimmy doesn't follow the same lines of reasoning as a "war nerds" like Armchair.

We all need to remember that President Carter authorized a "rescue mission". He could have went off half cocked and invaded Iran but to do that... invade a foreign country with large scale troops... the hostages would SURLY have been killed. The safety of those boys was Carter's only concern. Not some who's is bigger pissing contest... and the hostages ultimately survived.

President Carter didn't formulate the the plan to basically covertly try and steal the hostages back the military did. Carter didn't fly the helicopters or start the sandstorm that all attributed to the rescue attempt failing... he merely tried to save lives. Being in that position I think he has the knowledge to be very credible on our current situation.

 

[Castle]

Personally, I'd have to agree when the White House called Jimmy Carter irrelevant. It seems that way too many people are forgetting how Carter screwed up in Iran. Isn't this pretty much the pot calling the kettle black?

I have never seen a better example of the pot calling the kettle black!
There is plenty of room to criticize the Bush administration but Carter is dead LAST of people that have the credibility to do it. Anyone remember 21% interest rates? Double digit inflation? Long gas lines? How about that wet noodle he called a foreign policy. The former Soviet Union bent him over at will and his handling of the Iran hostages was pathetic at best. In a nutshell, Carter was completely inept as president.

I'll stay away from his obvious issues with Jews for now.

-Castle

 

[vyo476]

We all need to remember that President Carter authorized a "rescue mission". He could have went off half cocked and invaded Iran but to do that... invade a foreign country with large scale troops... the hostages would SURLY have been killed. The safety of those boys was Carter's only concern. Not some who's is bigger pissing contest... and the hostages ultimately survived.

President Carter didn't formulate the the plan to basically covertly try and steal the hostages back the military did. Carter didn't fly the helicopters or start the sandstorm that all attributed to the rescue attempt failing... he merely tried to save lives. Being in that position I think he has the knowledge to be very credible on our current situation.

He authorized "a" rescue mission. Just one. No backup plan. That was a mistake. He couldn't have invaded Iran - it would have been a complete disaster and everyone with half a brain knew it. The hostages did survive - because Khomeini was terrified of Ronald Reagan.

Carter didn't come up with the plan, but as President and Commander-in-Chief it was still his responsibility. Think about it - people blame George Bush for how badly Iraq is going even though he has nothing to do with the implementation of policy. If the policy itself is flawed...then he is still no different from Carter in this regard.

 

[Dave]

We all need to remember that President Carter authorized a "rescue mission". He could have went off half cocked and invaded Iran but to do that... invade a foreign country with large scale troops... the hostages would SURLY have been killed. The safety of those boys was Carter's only concern. Not some who's is bigger pissing contest... and the hostages ultimately survived.

President Carter didn't formulate the the plan to basically covertly try and steal the hostages back the military did. Carter didn't fly the helicopters or start the sandstorm that all attributed to the rescue attempt failing... he merely tried to save lives. Being in that position I think he has the knowledge to be very credible on our current situation.

My problem with Carter isn't the botched rescue attempt. Its that the embassy was still operational at the time the hostages were taken. I would strongly recommend reading "Guests of the Ayatollah" by Mark Bowden to anybody interested in the subject. The diplomats in the embassy saw it coming. The CIA officers in the embassy saw it coming. The only person that didn't see that something bad was about to happen was Jimmy Carter. The personell should have been pulled out before this ever happened.

 

[drippinhun]

Carter's actions resulted in all our hostages surviving. That's about as successful an outcome one could hope for. As far as the economic situation, anyone who understands what caused those issues that blossomed during his administration would know that Carter did the correct thing by letting Volker's medicine take place.

ow, please get back and discuss Carter's points instead of childishly trying to minimize his opinion by ignorantly trashing his record which is not the issue.