Conservative vs. Liberal ideology

[USMC the Almighty]

I don't recall anyone trying to take your guns away from you. This is just some illusion that people have concocted.

I was referrencing the automatic and SMGs, which you yourself said should be taken away. But you don't believe that our guns are being taken away? So these "gun-free" zones don't exist then, right?

So when El Presidente goes out and claims that John McCain has a "illegitimate black child" back in 2000, you don't think that that is racist? Do you think the government Katrina response would have been so weak if it had hit a primarily white population center. I'm not calling Conservatives racist but the fact of the matter is that to say that these programs are the real racism is extremely naive. Affirmative action and other programs are important in providing oppurtunities to those who are clearly at a disadvantage. It also stops the trend of self-segregation which would only lead to a resurgence in racial tensions.

So anytime the word black is brought up by a white Republican, it automatically has to be racism. Regarding Katrina, in short, yes the federal response would have been the same. You seem to forget not only that the city continued to be flooded for the first few days making it difficult any sort of mass ground transportation, and secondly, it doesn't help when gangs are shooting at the rescue helicopters. I think you know my philosophy well enough to have a good idea of how I feel about that whole thing: personal responsibility. I believe it is the person's own responsibility to protect and help themselves and their families. Then the local government, then the state government, and then the federal government. Honestly, when the federal government intervenes after only two days, I chalk that up as a local failure much more than a federal one.

Affirmative action blindly gives unfair advantages to people based solely on the color of their skin. It assumes that every black person is poor and every white person is rich and are gifted accordingly.

I'm sorry dude, but if you think that our Founding Fathers were just some motivated run-of-the-mill guys you are sorely mistaken.

Alexander Hamilton? Benjamin Franklin? Probably two of the most important Framers (along w/ Jefferson and Madison).

I'm not exactly sure where you get your "well documented" proof that conservatives are more charitable then democrats.

The primary reason that conservatives/America is more charitable than its leftist friends is because they are largely more religious.

http://hebookservice.com/products/BookPage.asp?prod_cd=c6989
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18253

And in those socialist nations if by more charitable you mean are less dependent on charity because the government takes care of those in need.

No, I mean socialist nations are less charitable when catastrophes like the tsunami of a few years come along.

And pardon me if I don't cry when the government takes a portion of a multi-millionaires income in order to provide healthcare and subsidies to help the poor.

Then you simply do not understand the basis of American styled capitalism. That's the definition of Socialism: "from each according to his ability..."

And I don't know why you continually put forward this "You should do everything yourself" if you think that most people are poor because they're lazy then you my friend are living in an illusion.

I believe in personal responsibility. That's the bedrock of my life philosophy, not just political philosophy. I trust myself to take care of, defend, and look after myself than any inefficient, corrupt, governmental institution.

While I recognize that not all poor people are lazy, and not all rich people work hard, I certainly don't think its random. I'm sure if you took the IQ of all McDonalds workers and all CEOs, you'd seem some evidence to back me up.

Hmmm...your right let's uh, set these qualifiers. AFTER 9/11 we have suffered 0 terrorist attacks.

On our homeland...

Oh actually hang on, sorry we mean to say dozens everyday. And just so you remember only two of those under Clinton happened within our borders so you can't pull this crap that we haven't been attacked under Bush.

When was the last time our embassy was bombed? A warship attacked?

Also yea, 9/11 was a slightly larger scale attack then the original WTC bombing or Oklahoma. And don't try this oh well Clinton set it up business. Nine months of lame duck rule, not to mention the negligence of reading terror reports from his own staff. Yup Bush is really good at not getting us attacked.

Sure Bush deserves 9 months of blame....Clinton deserves 8 years of it.

Well most conservatives are republicans and you guys had the executive and the legislative and from what I'm seeing it doesn't look like fiscal responsibility.

Most conservatives are Republicans for lack of a better option, right, but most Republicans are certainly not conservative.

You're absolutely right about the lack of fiscal responsibility.

See you make this jump that because I regard alliances highly that means I put other nations ahead of America. I don't think rushing into an ill-planned war is in America's best interest.

First of all, we didn't "rush" into anything. There were months of planning and deliberating. Stop using these little DNC catchphrases.

And just because the President tells you something is right doesn't mean that it is. And keeping with the UN is in our best interest in the long run. By shunning the UN you make it very easy for other nations to band together in ways that are not in our interest.

Other nations banded in opposition to us when we actually thought the UN mattered. We still keep the damn thing afloat despite its blatant anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism.

I just personally believe that motivated teachers beget motivated and interested students.

So you agree with me here. Tenure is a terrible idea because it takes away any teacher's motivation.

You may find it inspiring to have a sheet of paper that represents you as a person in the eyes of society, me not so much.

Where do you get this from?

 

[vyo476]

Tenure is a terrible, terrible idea. There isn't any here at the school which I attend and I and my teachers are glad of it.

 

[Coyote]

Thank A Liberal!
May 16th, 2006 by cliffwiseman

It is time to remove the paint others have put on “liberal”, see the true color and throw away the brush. From Webster’s Dictionary: liberal – 1. adj. giving freely, giving more than necessary or usual—political: favorable to individual liberty, social reform and the removal of economic restraints.

Liberal thinking wrote the “Declaration of Independence” and began a revolution against tyranny and persecution. Liberal thinking wrote our “Constitution” and embraced a bold concept of giving government to the people and creating a system of checks and balances so future generations would be protected. Liberal thinking gave us the “Bill of Rights” to ensure very specific freedoms would be safe. Look at the first article to the “Amendments to the Constitution” proposed in 1789:
Article [I.]
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Liberal thinking forged a new and promising country. It also settled the west. It created cutting edge technology and promised new medicines.

Liberal thinking took us to the stars and to the depths of the ocean. It was responsible for the Internet. It gave us many great leaders, patriots, humanitarians, teachers, authors, soldiers, policemen, firemen, musicians, actors, and physicians. It feeds the poor, protects the children and takes care of the elderly. It safeguards the environment and protects our planet with all its magnificent creatures, beautiful trees, fresh air and drinkable water so our children may one share in the wonders from our Creator…our Earth.

Liberal thinking can be thanked for a safe workplace, children going to school instead of being forced into labor, the constant effort to be paid a living wage, overtime pay, a forty hour week, you are allowed to join a union to protect your rights, your food is not poisoned, safer water to drink and air that is not black with pollution. If you value "Social Security” and "Medicare”, so the elderly can grow old with dignity without the bankrupting the family - you can thank a liberal. If people of all races can share the same public facilities; if everyone has the right to vote; if couples fall in love and marry regardless of race; if we have finally begun to transcend a segregated society—you can thank a liberal. Progressive innovations like those and so many others were achieved by long, difficult struggles against entrenched power. There is the matter of abortion and a liberal knows from the past the rich got abortions no matter the law and the rest could wind up in the hands of a back alley butcher or hideous tries at self abortion. The best solution is adoption of the unwanted.

Liberal is to have compassion, tolerance and understanding of people and situations even though they may be different. Liberal thinking walked among us as a man healing the sick, feeding the poor and taught us many important lessons about faith and be careful not to judge others, not to be greedy or fall prey to false prophets. It died for our sins. The word liberal appears three times in the King James Version of the Bible, Psalms 11:25 and Isaiah 32:5 and 6. The synonyms of liberal appears favorable and often in the Bible.

Liberal thinking is frustration, pain and sadness for a Country that shows so much promise but has strayed from the correct path and is determined to screw up and destroy everything it has ever fought for, died for and believed in. However, as a liberal thinking individual we always believe in hope, the promise of a new day, a better tomorrow and an honest future election.

Since most liberals tend to have a distinct distaste for hypocrites, we should not presume to explain what rightwing, neo-conservative republicans happen to think or feel.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Too bad that the idealist liberal tenets of our Framers have been perverted to mean big gov't socialism.

Since most liberals tend to have a distinct distaste for hypocrites, we should not presume to explain what rightwing, neo-conservative republicans happen to think or feel.

Oh the irony. Have you recently seen a college campus? Your liberal friends who claim to be staunch supporters of "free speech" really don't like it coming from anyone right of Marx...in fact they flat out prevent it.

 

[TheWaffle]

Too bad that the idealist liberal tenets of our Framers have been perverted to mean big gov't socialism.

It's also sad that these tenets have been warped into the makings of a totalitarian imperialistic government thanks to your buddies in the executive.

Oh the irony. Have you recently seen a college campus? Your liberal friends who claim to be staunch supporters of "free speech" really don't like it coming from anyone right of Marx...in fact they flat out prevent it.

I am not sure what college campus' you go to, but there is this stereotype that all college students are ignorant bleeding heart hippies. I go to school in good old liberal California and on my floor the seperation of political parties is about 3:5 Conservative to Liberal. We all respect one another's opinion. Most importantly we don't make sweeping generalizations about the other people because most of us are smart enough to have our own conclusions about each individual issue.

 

[palerider]

I don't recall anyone trying to take your guns away from you. This is just some illusion that people have concocted.

Then you need to work on your recall.


"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them… ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in,’ I would have done it."
Diane Feinstein

"If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly regulated, the rest would be confiscated."
Nancy Pelosi

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe." Diane Feinstein

"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic, purely symbolic move. ... Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."
Charles Krauthammer "Disarm the Citizenry," Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996

"The Times supports a near-total ban on the manufacture and private ownership of handguns and assault weapons, leaving those guns almost exclusively in the hands of law enforcement officials. Under our plan, individuals could own sporting weapons only if they had submitted to a background check and passed a firearms safety course. Other special, closely monitored exceptions could be made, such as for serious collectors."

"My bill establishes a 6-month grace period for the turning in of all handguns."
Major Owens

I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . . It is time to act. We cannot go on like this. Ban them!"
John H. Chafee

"Until we can ban all of them, then we might as well ban none."
Howard Metzenbaum

“You know I don't believe in people owning guns, only the police and military. And I'm going to do everything I can to disarm this state.” Michael Dukakis

 

[USMC the Almighty]

It's also sad that these tenets have been warped into the makings of a totalitarian imperialistic government thanks to your buddies in the executive.

You wouldn't be able to say that in a totalitarian state.

I am not sure what college campus' you go to, but there is this stereotype that all college students are ignorant bleeding heart hippies. I go to school in good old liberal California and on my floor the seperation of political parties is about 3:5 Conservative to Liberal. We all respect one another's opinion. Most importantly we don't make sweeping generalizations about the other people because most of us are smart enough to have our own conclusions about each individual issue.

I'm not referrencing civilized political discourse in your dorm. I'm talking more about the large protests...

 

[TheWaffle]

Then you need to work on your recall.


"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them… ‘Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in,’ I would have done it."
Diane Feinstein

"If I had my way, sporting guns would be strictly regulated, the rest would be confiscated."
Nancy Pelosi

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe." Diane Feinstein

"Passing a law like the assault weapons ban is a symbolic, purely symbolic move. ... Its only real justification is not to reduce crime but to desensitize the public to the regulation of weapons in preparation for their ultimate confiscation."
Charles Krauthammer "Disarm the Citizenry," Washington Post, Apr. 5, 1996

"The Times supports a near-total ban on the manufacture and private ownership of handguns and assault weapons, leaving those guns almost exclusively in the hands of law enforcement officials. Under our plan, individuals could own sporting weapons only if they had submitted to a background check and passed a firearms safety course. Other special, closely monitored exceptions could be made, such as for serious collectors."

"My bill establishes a 6-month grace period for the turning in of all handguns."
Major Owens

I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . . It is time to act. We cannot go on like this. Ban them!"
John H. Chafee

"Until we can ban all of them, then we might as well ban none."
Howard Metzenbaum

“You know I don't believe in people owning guns, only the police and military. And I'm going to do everything I can to disarm this state.” Michael Dukakis

I find it very interesting how vehement people get about defending their guns. And if you fear this legislation then my friend you should fear getting drafted because that too was introduced into congress, and yet the reality is that it is the sort of thing that would never pass.

I remember an incident where the stupid kid across the street fired a BB gun at my house and shattered the window on one of our cars. What if someone in my family had been in the car or had been walking by, that shot could have done serious damage. I don't think I would feel very safe with that kid owning a rifle. He didn't stop to think about what he was doing until he came face to face with serious consequences.

Now I don't want to ban BB guns or say that people don't have the right to own weapons. Though we could debate all day about the 2nd amendment regarding "A well regulated Militia." Because most gun owners certainly are not part of a well regulated militia. However I do believe in gun control.

 

[TheWaffle]

You wouldn't be able to say that in a totalitarian state.

I'm not referrencing civilized political discourse in your dorm. I'm talking more about the large protests...

I did say the makings of a Totalitarian state. Pardon the sensationalism but to me it is unnerving when the government begins attempting to control what the media can or can't say. Especially when it does no one any good. The control established over the media in the first term has now turned into a media backlash where our media has grown to be harmful as well.

It's actually quite funny, the vast majority of people here seem to have a solid disdain for protests. More often then not they are a spectacle organized by passionate (and biased) individuals who recruit throngs of bodies who know nothing about the cause. And the chanting of ignorant slogans makes me a little ill "We want love, we want peace. Bush's terror must now cease." It's all very silly.

For instance we had a group who organized a fast claiming that they wouldn't stop until they got a meeting with the university's president. He promptly agreed to meet with them and discuss a solution, at that point the protestors changed their declaration to fast until they got their way. It is very interesting that protestors are often more caught up in the theater of what they are doing then the actual cause. Protesting to me is the "two-hour feel like you've achieved something" cure to apathy. I mean Bush came here once and though he was right down the street only a couple hundred people showed up the majority of whom were not actually students here.

So, yea, don't take what you see of a protest to represent the majority on a campus. Real change comes about through talking and negotiation. I've never been much affected by a sign saying "Bush is a terrorist" or "Support America or get out."

 

[skypunk1]

i don't know if this has been brought up, but the 2nd amendment was instituted so the citizenry could overthrow the government if need be (if bush hasn't created that need, then i don't know what would). however, that was in a time where the weaponry was equal - the government had muskets, the people had muskets. times have changed, and only a special type of handicapped person actually believes their deer rifle will be effective against modern weaponry, like a tank.

so, the question is, why do the gun control advocates advancing the idea that they need guns? what, exactly, do they need them for?

in addition, it's always been amusing to me that the same group of gun control advocates who say they have guns to defend against criminals also make statements like "they can have my gun when they pry it out of my cold dead hands". so isn't that just becoming the criminal they claim to be defending themselves against? the gun being the tool to attack policing agents if they make a law to take the gun? gotta love the consistency.

 

[DemocratLupis]

10) Conservatives believe that individual Americans have a right to defend themselves and their families with guns and that right cannot be taken away by any method short of a Constitutional Amendment, which conservatives would oppose. Liberals believe by taking arms away from law abiding citizens, they can prevent criminals, who aren't going to abide by gun control laws, from using guns in the commission of crimes.

True

9) Conservatives believe that we should live in a color blind society where every individual is judged on the content of his character and the merits of his actions. On the other hand, liberals believe that it's ok to discriminate based on race as long as it primarily benefits minority groups.

Then how comeback in the days of the Civil war it was conservaties who seemed like the racist ones

8) Conservatives are capitalists and believe that entrepreneurs who amass great wealth through their own efforts are good for the country and shouldn't be punished for being successful. Liberals are socialists who view successful business owners as people who cheated the system somehow or got lucky. That's why they don't respect high achievers and see them as little more than piggy banks for their programs.

liberals/democrats can be capitalists as well

7) Conservatives believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child and since we believe that infanticide is wrong, we oppose abortion. Most liberals, despite what they'll tell you, believe that abortion ends the life of an innocent child, but they prefer killing the baby to inconveniencing the mother.

I think democrats are neutral on this issue

6) Conservatives believe in confronting and defeating enemies of the United States before they can harm American citizens. Liberals believe in using law enforcement measures to deal with terrorism, which means that they feel we should allow terrorists to train, plan, and actually attempt to kill Americans before we try to arrest them -- as if you can just send the police around to pick up a terrorist mastermind hiding in Iran or the wilds of Pakistan.

then how come Bush let 9/11 happen explain that! we all know it was an inside job! no instead of going in and fighting liberals rather bomb their enemy such as terrorists...they'd rather bomb them, their bases


5) Conservatives, but not necessarily Republicans (which is unfortunate), believe it's vitally important to the future of the country to reduce the size of government, keep taxes low, balance the budget, and get this country out of debt. Liberals, and Democrats for that matter, believe in big government, high taxes, and they have never met a new spending program they didn't like, whether we will have to go into debt to pay for it or not.

No not true Clinton wanted to lower taxes

4) Conservatives believe that government, by its very nature, tends to be inefficient, incompetent, wasteful, and power hungry. That's why we believe that the government that governs least, governs best. Liberals think that the solution to every problem is another government program. Even when those new programs create new problems, often worse than the ones that were being fixed in the first place, the solution is always....you guessed it, another government program.

3) Conservatives are patriotic, believe that America is a great nation, and are primarily interested in looking out for the good of the country. That's why we believe in "American exceptionalism" and "America first." Liberals are internationalists who are more concerned about what Europeans think of us and staying in the good graces of the corrupt bureaucrats who control the UN than looking out for the best interests of this nation.

Democrats are internationalists and thats a good thing and they also care for long term rather than short term

2) Conservatives, most of them anyway, believe in God and think that the Constitution has been twisted by liberal judges to illegitimately try to purge Christianity from the public square. We also believe, most of us anyway, that this country has been successful in large part because it is a good, Christian nation and if our country ever turns away from the Lord, it will cease to prosper. Liberals, most of them anyway, are hostile to Christianity. That's why, whether you're talking about a school play at Christmas time, a judge putting the Ten Commandments on the wall of his court, or a store employee saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," liberals are dedicated to driving reminders of Christianity from polite society.

Then shame on the liberals...

and if this is true then I guess I'm a Canis Lupis


1) Conservatives believe in pursuing policies because they're pragmatic and because they work. Liberals believe in pursuing policies because they're "nice" and make them feel good. Whether the policies they're advocating actually work or not is of secondary importance to them.

Democrats have good policies too

 

[USMC the Almighty]

so, the question is, why do the gun control advocates advancing the idea that they need guns? what, exactly, do they need them for?

I own a gun for one reason: self-defense. When it comes down to it, I'm not going to rely on some bureaucratic institution to protect me. I never want to find myself in a situation where I say to myself "I really wish I had a gun right now".

in addition, it's always been amusing to me that the same group of gun control advocates who say they have guns to defend against criminals also make statements like "they can have my gun when they pry it out of my cold dead hands". so isn't that just becoming the criminal they claim to be defending themselves against? the gun being the tool to attack policing agents if they make a law to take the gun? gotta love the consistency.

This makes no sense.

 

[StatesRights]

"Control the guns and you control the people" - Adolf Hitler

To all the people who say, "your hunting rifle can't match a tank". Just remember two words, Guerilla Warfare.